Later

[CK&Tydi 0]

Lurker,

Like everyone else said, Stay Focus on your Wife Visa. Why bother about the nonsense stuff about the North and the South. Let's the past stay behind and move on with your current situation. I lived in the Heart of the Vietnamese Community here in Orange County. I dont' see any people talk craps about the Northern People and the Southern People. There are no such discrimination like you thought. So don't worry on that part bro. Once in a while, i saw some bull ####### about going on strike for some reasons or some groups tried to gain power in the Vietnamese Community, in the Little Saigon. Beside that, stay focus to get your wife here and live a happy live. Don't worry about the other BS. Let's us know the update on your Wife Visa so all of us here can help and learn from your case.

[dalegg 143]

L I lived in the Heart of the Vietnamese Community here in Orange County. I dont' see any people talk craps about the Northern People and the Southern People. There are no such discrimination like you thought. So don't worry on that part bro. Once in a while, i saw some bull ####### about going on strike for some reasons or some groups tried to gain power in the Vietnamese Community, in the Little Saigon.

I have to wonder how much of that is because people supportive of the existing Government do not speak up. Not that my wife is too political anyway, but she was born in the South after the fall of Saigon and her parents both being members of the Communist party, her heart is really with them. The politics of Ho Chi Minh never come up while we're ordering dinner though!

You may notice on special occasions there will be organized demonstrations down in Little Saigon protesting the Communist Government. This was more of a spectacle of interest than anything else to her, much like if we as Americans go over there to visit the "Museum of truths" and see their side of the story.

Edited November 22, 2006 by dalegg

[chuckandkim 0]

Personally, those guys who protest the communist regime in Vietnam here in the safe and protected environment of South California or Northern Virginia is a bunch of old school soared losers who big on screaming and yelling at the Vietnamese Government wherever they can HERE in America. BUT none of them would ever do anything to change it! ###### and moan about the regime, relive their golden days of the pre-fall of Saigon when they were Captains ABC, General 123 blah blah blah. Just forget it, the communists are here to stay, unless Bush decides that Vietnam has WMD, then that's a different story!

So, as far as the protest in little saigon, eden shopping center in Virginia, or the one here in South Philly, nothing but a bunch of clowns. Stop protesting and do something good for the country. The sad truth about these protests, after they're all done, they go to the near by restaurant and "NHẬU" "YO" until they passed out! Not to put down anyone but I believe this type of activity is unproductive and does not promote unity among the vietnamese american community! It'd rather be divisive!

[Lurker 0]

Personally, those guys who protest the communist regime in Vietnam here in the safe and protected environment of South California or Northern Virginia is a bunch of old school soared losers who big on screaming and yelling at the Vietnamese Government wherever they can HERE in America. BUT none of them would ever do anything to change it! ###### and moan about the regime, relive their golden days of the pre-fall of Saigon when they were Captains ABC, General 123 blah blah blah. Just forget it, the communists are here to stay, unless Bush decides that Vietnam has WMD, then that's a different story!

So, as far as the protest in little saigon, eden shopping center in Virginia, or the one here in South Philly, nothing but a bunch of clowns. Stop protesting and do something good for the country. The sad truth about these protests, after they're all done, they go to the near by restaurant and "NHẬU" "YO" until they passed out! Not to put down anyone but I believe this type of activity is unproductive and does not promote unity among the vietnamese american community! It'd rather be divisive!

I agree, and as my Vo's father said, "We have forgotten about the war...it was too long ago". But it will still be hard for her to come here and try to find a Vietnamese friend that shares that same point of view. I mean, she is a very kind and gentle woman. Yea she belongs to the party, but what does that mean exactly? Ideas are different? Sure...but is that any reason to dislike someone because thier ideas are different, NO. Wars have been fought because of ideas alone...doesn't mean anyone is right.

She knows all this though. But even though she does know this, she still tells me, "I just want to be where my husband is, and spend time with my husband".

Her understanding and true preception of how life is there, and here I think will make it be ok when she comes here. She is not blinded and is not too young (30 almost my age). I think this helps.

[chuckandkim 0]

if it wasn't for the north vietnamese communists invaded South Vietnam, most of the vietnamese in So-Cal and everywhere else in America, wouldn't even be here. if it wasn't for the NVC (north vietnamese communist), and the NVC (national visa center), again none of the Visa Journey folks are here in America! They wouldn't even have the life style that most vietnameses are enjoying every day, gaining the respect from his fellow vietnameses back home in Vietnam every time they return to visit. So, looking back, most southerners better thanks them!

Your wife Lurker or anyone's fiancee who are about to arrive in this country, take this attitude: I'm happy where my husband is, and where we are together! You'll be just fine! America is a greatest country on earth, like it or not, 99% of the people want to move here, not there!

[patricks 0]

I want to understand

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It's better for a person to be a refugee from their native country, breaking up the family and then relocated to a totally different foreign country (mostly on dangerous voyages & waiting in refugee camps) with little money and limited English ability. As a result, 30 years later, they have a better lifestyle than their former countrymen.

"So, looking back, most southerners better thanks them!"........"them" refers to the NVC

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I never really thought of the situation this way, interesting.

[CK&Tydi 0]

Anyway, Let's forget about all these troubles, hatred about the past, and don't let it get to your skin. The long HOLIDAY is right next to us, I wish everyone in here have a wonderful THANKSGIVING Holiday with your family and loved one (if they are not here with you, then figure some way to celebrate with them) and give thanks to the Guy above (GOD) that had help us in the past and present on our Visa Journey. Don't Drink and Drive heh?

Have a wonderful Thanksgiving Holiday everyone!

[patricks 0]

Sorry, my wife is Buddhist......

and

I will have a couple glasses of wine with dinner before I drive home.

Thanks for sharing your beliefs and advice

[chuckandkim 0]

Patricks,

My family are always thanksful for everything, even the worst possible situation as the fall of saigon in 1975. We believe God has a purpose and a plan in everything for everything that happen to his children. It is the thanksgiving theme We thank you Uncle Ho for invading Vietnam that we are now living here in America, otherwise, I don't think my entire family would be here. We thank Communists for putting my father and uncles in "re-educational camp" (i.e. Forced labor camps, with a torturing on the side). Because in 19989, the USA returned and picked up ALL of the South Vietnamese military and their families to the US. We thanks the northerners for taking our lands, homes and all of our prossession so that many of us vietnamese became "boatpeople" who later on got refugeed from many countries (US, AU, France, Norway etc.) otherwise, they would have sent us to Cambodia to die. I can thank them for more but let's not!

Happy thanksgiving everyone

[Tony_H 0]

Hi Lurker,

I would like to add my 2 cents to why some of your Vietnamese friends stopped talking to you after finding out about your fiance being from the North.

Many of them who were probably around 5 or older in 1975 who left then or later as boat people. Many of them still are angry of what happened to Vietnam because:

- More than 6 million people perished in the Vietnam war since 1945 through 1975 of which over 50,000 were Americans. Most Vietnamese had a family member died in that war.

- About 500,000 Vietnamese died at sea trying to escape after the fall of Vietnam.

- The method the government went about taking control of the people after 1954 in the North and after 1975 in the South: execution, labor camps, re-education camps, etc...

It has been very hard for those who remembered this at the time. Of course, most of these deeds were done by NORTH VIETNAMESE regime.

So I gather that when your friend heard that your fiance is from the North, that would be the immediate association they made. They quickly reason that if one was born in the North, they are definitely communists even though there were many communists in the south as well. However, if one is from the south, there is a chance that they may not be the original communists.

My fiance's family is from the south and her father was a former highly decorated communist officer. He was well rewarded with an important job after 1975 in their government as well.

Until I visited Vietnam 3 times recently, I had the same feelings and perception. As Chuck said, it happened a long time ago. The people in Vietnam only worry about making a livng nowadays in any means possible. They welcome the new changes and openess. The government made dramatic changes recognizing their failed experiment. However, they will never admit to it. The country is operating on the basic principle of capitalism. I am returning from Vietnam after being in Saigon for 3 weeks on my 3rd trip this year.

I wish that there was a way to communicate this situation better to Vietnam abroad. I do not know what would be a good way for them (older Vietnamese abroad) forgive and let go of the past.

I told my fiance that I let it go when her father asked me to submit the fiance paperwork for his daughter and told me not to be discouraged by the difficult process. My fiance asked him: does that mean the great Communist is handing over his daughter to the American Imperialist? he laughed. That was enough for me. But I know it still will be very difficult for many other Vietnamese abroad to see this.

So Lurker, please be understanding and patient with your Vietnamese friends, and may be you can try to communicate some of the new changes and openess taking place there to your friends. There might be a chance that they will hear you and see it.

P.S. However, it is a long story to talk about the difference between the Northerner and Southerner and some of the hard feelings between them. Andhat is an entirely different subject.

[GOSSIPSAIGON 0]

if it wasn't for the north vietnamese communists invaded South Vietnam, most of the vietnamese in So-Cal and everywhere else in America, wouldn't even be here. if it wasn't for the NVC (north vietnamese communist), and the NVC (national visa center), again none of the Visa Journey folks are here in America! They wouldn't even have the life style that most vietnameses are enjoying every day, gaining the respect from his fellow vietnameses back home in Vietnam every time they return to visit. So, looking back, most southerners better thanks them!

Your wife Lurker or anyone's fiancee who are about to arrive in this country, take this attitude: I'm happy where my husband is, and where we are together! You'll be just fine! America is a greatest country on earth, like it or not, 99% of the people want to move here, not there!

I agree with you, Chuck. We also need to thank the NVC for exporting thousand of Vietnamese women & children to Taiwan, Cambodia, and Singarpore to work in brothels.

Anything else that you want to thank them, Chuck???

[Zerovoltz 0]

North vs. South, the constant struggle in every country, even here in the US. It will continue no matter what people say... there will be folks who just can't understand the fact the South had lost the Civil War for the longest time, still drag around the Confederate flag on the back of their pick-up trucks... Oh wait, this is about North and South Vietnamese...

Here is how I understand a bit of history: 1954, French lost the battle of "DIEN BIEN PHU" to Ho-Chi-Minh's "Viet-Minh" army. Signed a truce to stop the fight, and divided Vietnam into two countries at longitude 17. The french withdrew from Hanoi, massive evacuation of north vietnamese catholics, protestants and the likes were loaded up on the french ships, trains and planes heading SOUTH. Well, long story short, the northerners are now become part of The Republic of South Vietnam country, known as "BAC 54". These "Bac 54" is considered and accepted among southerners as "our people" as opposed to the Northerners who went South after the Fall of Saigon in 1975. These northerners are called "Bac-ky-75" by the southerners to differenciate with the "Bac-54". Most southerners who left Vietnam when the North took over Saigon carry with them the anger and hatrates I can not explain in a few words here on the forums, just need sometimes to talk to some southerners in South Cali or Houston Texas, You'll get the sense of hate still in their heart. "Bac-ky-75" are considered the invaders of the South Vietnam for years, although most southerners in Vietnam nowadays rarely or openly amitted that feeling, but it's there and they just accepted the fact:I just let it go, but we still know you're who you are and we are who we are!

That's how I understand this struggles between the north and south. I myself am the son of a northerner mother and southerner father, as many of vietnamese, I careless for the old school angers. It's time for healing and reconcile the differences. After all, it's one country, one people and one bottle of Fishsause!!!

You concern about how your Vo will be accepted here in America. NO TO WORRY! We are all refugees, immigrants here on this great land of America. Yes, I'm speaking to the Naturalized US Citizens as well! So what rights can they say to your Vo when she comes here or judge her for she is from the NORTH Vietnam. speak to Mike E. on this board, his Vo is a wonderful North Vietnamese woman, from the heart of Hanoi.... Nobody is more NORTH than she is. I'm sure there are many Northerners who feel the unfriendly looks from the southerners around the Vietnamese community, don't be... Considered it's rude to many when one disrepects one's VO because of her origin. AMEN???? The so-called friends you mentioned, they need to get over themselves, they aren't any better than anyone. Once you are here on this land, your rights are equal to mine. If anything, those are the guys who went back to Vietnam every years and fearfully walking through the Custom Boarder Checkpoint at TAN SON NHAT everytime, scare sheeitless at the Vietnamese police and security... but when they are back in the States, they'll be talking ####### how they would have kicked some arrsses in Saigon and stuff.

Just relax and as I kept saying: stay focus, get your visa and remember: payback is a $@%@#

So you're ok now? Back on VJ brother...

My own personal feelings on this are, that

A) your doing this legally...so that's cool.

B) you are going to have a better life and your wife is going to have a better life.

C theres a good chance your wifes family in Vietnam are going to have a better life too.

...I'm all for making things better, and doing it legally. We're here to help, we've all had set backs in this process, my wife failed an interview, etc etc. Keep your head up always, if it's real, it will be a happy ending for you.

[woodgc 0]

Well it has been awhile and I see an interesting post so here are my wanted or unwanted four bits.

#1 havening live in other countries and lived and worked all over the USA yes the north and south thing really exists; its life live with it. try walking into a restaurant in southern, way south, Louisiana and asking the waitress to take the order from your black friend first, since he sat down 5 min before you. (a test we came up with so he could prove some things to me- he was right) you will see a big difference between north and south USA, some of it is very funny some very sad.

#2 the one thing I have noticed about my wife’s and most likely any one born or raised after the takeover of the south – she is from the south-. Their views were formed in a much propagandized educational system and being from the south I was surprised to here some of her remarks during our private conversations. I have nicely told her that when we are in the company of American VN and most importantly X-refugees she should be very careful what she says as she will be misunderstood and maybe hurt someone’s feelings. I WILL ADD SHE IS VERY SMART AND DOES REALIZE MUCH OF WHAT SHE WAS TAUGHT WAS B.S. but it is very hard not to fall into what was pumped into your head for 20 years

#3 having lived and worked with people that escaped from the eastern block commie countries, when one needed to escape, I have learned that propaganda truly works people truly believe it. Please read Thought reform and the psychology of totalism by Robert jay Lifton if you have questions on this stuff.

#4 remember most people are really great but bad folks do exist so do not feel persecuted or if you really do feel this way get some good counseling help; Help your lady understand that many american VN people went through a very different experience then her and we always need to listen to other peoples thoughts in order to grow; Plant seeds not mushrooms!!!!

Good Luck

[GOSSIPSAIGON 0]

if it wasn't for the north vietnamese communists invaded South Vietnam, most of the vietnamese in So-Cal and everywhere else in America, wouldn't even be here. if it wasn't for the NVC (north vietnamese communist), and the NVC (national visa center), again none of the Visa Journey folks are here in America! They wouldn't even have the life style that most vietnameses are enjoying every day, gaining the respect from his fellow vietnameses back home in Vietnam every time they return to visit. So, looking back, most southerners better thanks them!

Your wife Lurker or anyone's fiancee who are about to arrive in this country, take this attitude: I'm happy where my husband is, and where we are together! You'll be just fine! America is a greatest country on earth, like it or not, 99% of the people want to move here, not there!

I agree with you, Chuck. We also need to thank the NVC for exporting thousand of Vietnamese women & children to Taiwan, Cambodia, and Singarpore to work in brothels.

Anything else that you want to thank them, Chuck???

Check this out, Chuck,

http://www.vietact.org/

Edited November 25, 2006 by GOSSIPSAIGON

[chuckandkim 0]

GossipSaigon,

I'm still waiting for the link to work! (It works NOW thank you Goss)

On the subject of exploiting vietnamese cheap labors, I have doubts. Friends and families have paid so much money just to get a spot on the "cooperative-workers" program (Hop Tac Lao Dong) in Russia, Eastern Europe, middle eastern countries, Taiwan, Japan etc. I can hardly call it "exporting" where the actual workers had to pay a good chunk of cash just to be on the waiting-list to be called for the job in those countries. Many vietnameses who work and live in Eastern Germany can attest to this issue better than I can as a true fact.

However, the human trafficking issue is an international issue, not just vietnam. NVC has many questionable actions and laws toward the issue. Their non-responsive attitude toward the many vietnamese young children (boys and girls) who been sold and sent to Cambodia/Thailand for child-porn and sex-slave or women are sold to middle east as toys. If you search you will find NVC has bigger issue with the Human Rights group right before they joined WTO. One thing I must say, NVC comes a long way, last week The U.S. State Department removed Vietnam from its annual list of Countries of Particular Concern (CPC) for severe violations of religious freedom. It's been awhile.... People take for granted their rights and freedom to worship here in America... try to have 30 years of NO-RELIGIOUS freedom, you'll feel it!

Back to topic: Thanks to NVC we are here typing our messages away in our comfortable leather chair and airconditioned office, life is better for you and me. What would I'd be doing back home right now if my family didn't get kicked out of Vietnam? Probably in prison, or own a "BIA OM" shop, or smuggling illegal goods cross the borders. Stressing about what to feed my family tonight or "nobody gets sick ok, we got no money for the doctor's visit". Here in the States, you and I worry about "hmmm do I want mexican or chinese for dinner", dissatisfied because the Steak was medium rare, not rare as I ordered it from Ruth's Chris, pick and choose which kind of gas we put in our car, decaf or regular etc. They have one type: CAFE DEN with milk.

Therefore, Thanking NVC is the appropriate things in my opinion... If it wasn't for them I wouldn't be.... (fill in the blank)... oh yeah, the americans wouldn't be there in the first place!

Edited November 27, 2006 by chuckandkim