Indian military wants "show of force" against Chinese, political establishment says no

[mota bhai 2,675]

NEW DELHI: The dominant sentiment coming to the fore in the armed forces is that India should jettison its ultra-defensive mindset towards China, and if it requires "a show of force" to resolve the ongoing military standoff in Ladakh, then so be it.

...

Though the "show of force" option is on the table, the government is unlikely to exercise it to prevent any escalation at this stage.

...

China has hugely upgraded its military infrastructure all along the 4,057-km long Line of Actual Control (LAC) over the last two decades, which allows it to rush troops to the border to outnumber Indian forces by over 3:1.

"But when we belatedly begin to build infrastructure, in terms of roads, posts and re-activating advanced landing grounds or airstrips, the People's Liberation Army jumps up to become even more aggressive," said a senior officer.

...

Defence minister A K Antony on Wednesday did say the government "will take every step to protect national integrity and security", but added that "negotiations are on at various levels to resolve the issue peacefully".

While agreeing that diplomatic engagement is critical, officers stress India also has to systematically build its "trans-border" military capabilities and "keep its powder dry" for any eventuality.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/India-wont-add-fuel-to-stand-off/articleshow/19717204.cms

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

In the end, India would lose. Maybe in a few years, when India's population surpasses that of China, they could ask everybody to walk into China, pick up rocks, and throw them at the Chinese troops. That will probably prove more effective.

[james&olya 1,121]

I hope our idiot politicians have at least the minimal sense required to realize this is one conflict we definitely want to stay as far away from as possible!

[Darnell 8,478]

To h3ll with the political establishment in India - What do the Bureaucrats there want? (No, this isn't the same gene pool, so pull the other one)

Edited April 25, 2013 by Darnell

[mota bhai 2,675]

In the end, India would lose.

I think India's best case outcome in a war with China would be a stalemate. They certainly can't win but those nukes could force a stalemate.

To h3ll with the political establishment in India - What do the Bureaucrats there want? (No, this isn't the same gene pool, so pull the other one)

India is sending its foreign minister Salman Khurshid (US equiv is Sec State) to Beijing. India is a vassal of the Chinese and intend to plead for mercy.

[GandD 5,966]

In the end, India would lose. Maybe in a few years, when India's population surpasses that of China, they could ask everybody to walk into China, pick up rocks, and throw them at the Chinese troops. That will probably prove more effective.

God can you imagine those two slugging it out? With those populations and land masses the scale would be massive.

[mota bhai 2,675]

God can you imagine those two slugging it out? With those populations and land masses the scale would be massive.

There's one huge difference. The Chinese population will rally behind their government. The Indian population will cry about all the dead sons and plead their government to let the Chinese have the slice of Himalayan desert they want.

[GandD 5,966]

There's one huge difference. The Chinese population will rally behind their government. The Indian population will cry about all the dead sons and plead their government to let the Chinese have the slice of Himalayan desert they want.

Can't speak to your comment about the Indians but yeah you're right about the Chinese. In my experience they are fiercely patriotic.

[mota bhai 2,675]

Can't speak to your comment about the Indians but yeah you're right about the Chinese. In my experience they are fiercely patriotic.

Indian Airlines Flight 814 was supposed to go to New Delhi but was hijacked some years back by the Taliban. They landed the plane in Kandahar. They demanded that India release a few terrorists caught "freedom fighting" in the Kashmir valley. The initial reaction from the government was a healthy FU ... until the TV networks started interviewing the families of the people on that plane. The parents of young men and women. Brothers, sisters, new wives. Everyone crying on the TV whining about their loved one being sacrificed by the government for a bunch of people (Kashmiris) who don't want to be Indian anyway. The public outcry ended with India sending a senior minister with the terrorists to negotiate with the Taliban. They did a swap on the tarmac. The Taliban won, the Indian moms and dads got their kids back but were seen by jihadis everywhere to be pathetic weaklings with no appetite for loss.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Can't speak to your comment about the Indians but yeah you're right about the Chinese. In my experience they are fiercely patriotic.

It you are not patriotic, you end up making infant's clothing for sale in the US, and eventually, they harvest your organs for sale.

[GandD 5,966]

It you are not patriotic, you end up making infant's clothing for sale in the US, and eventually, they harvest your organs for sale.

That's not fair.

Anyway my wife and her fam are from Hong Kong (now in Canada minus her). Her parents won't buy anything Japanese as a result of the island disputes that have been going on. Pretty funny cus they were trying to convince her not to as well. I remember talking to them about the disputes and was asking how they thought it was going to be resolved. Her mom's answer was (in Cantonese of course) "I'm sure it will be decided by some stinkin' American"

[mota bhai 2,675]

An interview with an Indian academic.

Could we be heading towards a larger conflict or is this mere political posturing ahead of Chinese Premier Li Keqiang’s visit? Srikanth Kondapalli, chairman of the Centre for East Asian Studies and Associate Professor in Chinese Studies at the Jawaharlal Nehru University, sheds light on these questions in an interview with Avalok Langer.

India has been developing its infrastructure in the border areas and is planning to strengthen its military presence. Could this be a warning of sorts?

We have announced infrastructure projects in the area and the strategic roads we plan to build are part of that project, but the progress is very slow. The Border Roads Organisation had made an announcement some time ago that almost half of the work is over. But if you check on the ground, all that has been done is that the hill side has been dug up. They have not built the roads yet. I have recently been to the DBG sector and the roads are still dirt roads, it is not a highway. On the Chinese side, however, they have beautifully tarred roads.

I think part of this is linked to the infrastructural development that the Chinese have been carrying out in the Northern Areas and other parts of Pakistan-occupied Kashmir (POK). The recent incursions, however, have happened about 200-300 km away from those areas. It’s already well-known that Chinese companies have invested heavily in the area. And though the Chinese government denies it, there are reports suggesting that there are 11,000 Chinese troops protecting these installations through patrolling. This is surely a factor fuelling the current crisis.

A month ago, the Chinese government proposed a draft agreement with India on the rules of engagement that called for demilitarisation of the LAC, no night patrols and removing structures from the border areas. We have not accepted it yet. Could this be pressure tactics before the Chinese premier’s visit?

They are demanding that, but India will not go by what they demand and there is no obligation to accept it. We cannot remove troops from the area. The Chinese have fantastic infrastructure, they can centrally decide the placement of their troops on the ground and move them when they wish, but we cannot. We have to keep our troops where they are located on the ground.

...

By not fixing the border, China has created an interesting situation where incidents like these are seen not as acts of war but acts of ‘confusion’. And it allows them to embarrass and armtwist India by applying minimum force. Does China want this situation to continue?

If there is uncertainty on the border between two rising countries, then it will lead to bigger problems. I don’t think it is good for either country. At the same time, neither can really afford to cross the line, because both are nuclear states.

...

There is talk that China is trying to test how India would react. What is your view?

They are testing us and we are testing them back. When you have uncertainty, people play games. In this case, the fact that we asked for two flag meetings and the Chinese had to accept, indicated that we too put them to a test. Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi made a comment on this, and their foreign ministry spokesperson also said, “We should go back to status quo.” This means they accepted that it was China that changed the status quo, so to go back to it, they will have to withdraw and go back 10 km. So it is true that China tested India and India, in turn, also succeeded in testing it.

Could this lead to war?

I don’t think this issue will lead to a war. This is just posturing. Both sides will protect their sovereignty and territorial integrity, but they will not go to war on small issues.

[Darnell 8,478]

That's not fair.

Anyway my wife and her fam are from Hong Kong (now in Canada minus her). Her parents won't buy anything Japanese as a result of the island disputes that have been going on. Pretty funny cus they were trying to convince her not to as well. I remember talking to them about the disputes and was asking how they thought it was going to be resolved. Her mom's answer was (in Cantonese of course) "I'm sure it will be decided by some stinkin' American"

Hongkee's are not PRC people and will fiercely be against PRC stuff for another few hundred years, especially the ones that took advantage of the migration out of HKG into Canada .

I'm sorry, but things are just different for PRC folksen.

[GandD 5,966]

Hongkee's are not PRC people and will fiercely be against PRC stuff for another few hundred years, especially the ones that took advantage of the migration out of HKG into Canada .

I'm sorry, but things are just different for PRC folksen.

This is very true. In fact the HKers will make sure that you understand they are not from mainland China. BUT, when you talk USA or any other nation (minus HK) vs. China, they nearly ALWAYS side with China.

[mota bhai 2,675]

Not really relevant to the thread, but here's a cool Ladakh photoset I found on flickr. Ladakh is the region this is all happening in.