Stop Amnesty

[decocker 7,198]

It figures.

patchouli and the moody blues have never hurt anyone

[SaharaSunset 165]

They would have to find their own way into the country, of course. If someone is motivated to get the money for a plane ticket, they can find a way.

Your other points regarding the welfare system do pose a challenge, and I would need a lot more time and dedication to figure out a solution to that. I'd be tempted to say that welfare shouldn't cover them unless they established that they are not a leech by holding a job, etc. The influx of immigration we would get would lead to larger non-English-speaking communities, in which non-English-speaking jobs could be found. Actually, I never use English at work, we only use Japanese, because we cater to the Japanese community.

But "finding their own way" is NOT FAIR. And aren't you arguing for fairness and equal access for all the world? Mexicans can walk across the border. A plane ticket from Africa averages around $1500-$2000....more than a desert nomad might make in their lifetime....no matter how "motivated" they are. So your plan is biased towards Latin Americans...but yet you want equality for all the world?

And while I know the U.S. very diplomatically refuses to make English our official language - we all know it is. And if everyone followed your model of non-English speaking communities, how would that work? How would we all communicate? Would everything have to be available in all languages...because if we want equality and American life for all, without limits, then we'd have to accommodate all languages...including languages no one has ever heard of, like Telugu...among others. And eventually everyone would live in isolated small scale versions of their former countries...and "America" would have no cohesive structure...and "The American" dream would be dead....for everyone.

I respect your good intentions...but alas, they are so poorly thought through it's frightening...except for that Cambodia idea

Edited April 20, 2013 by SaharaSunset

[duraaraa 203]

And how long do you think anyone would be able to make that dream come true in America if there was an open border policy? There'd be 600 million people here in a year and the infrastructure would never keep up. And USCIS can't process anything efficiently now, let alone with a 100 million new applications overnight. No way it will ever work, IMO.

They can process the applications like tourist visas, at the foreign embassies, if they have to. Or people can be issued visas on arrival after a quick database check... the airlines could even determine eligibility when people buy their flight tickets, if it's as easy as checking a database. I don't see the need for a lengthy USCIS-esque process.

You would be surprised how much infrastructure a working force of 600 million could come up with in a year. In time, there would be more cities, more business to do, and more workers to do it. America has a lot of empty land.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

But "finding their own way" is NOT FAIR. Mexicans can walk across the border. A plane ticket from Africa averages around $1500-$2000....more than a desert nomad might make in their lifetime

Europe is much closer, and you have a choice of many languages, perhaps one or two you can already function in quite well.

[duraaraa 203]

But "finding their own way" is NOT FAIR. And aren't you arguing for fairness and equal access for all the world? Mexicans can walk across the border. A plane ticket from Africa averages around $1500-$2000....more than a desert nomad might make in their lifetime....no matter how "motivated" they are. So your plan is biased towards Latin Americans...but yet you want equality for all the world?

And while I know the U.S. very diplomatically refuses to make English our official language - we all know it is. And if everyone followed your model of non-English speaking communities, how would that work? How would we all communicate? Would everything have to be available in all languages...because if we want equality and American life for all, without limits, then we'd have to accommodate all languages...including Telugu...among others. And eventually everyone would live in isolated samll scale versions of their former countries...and "America" would have no cohesive structure...and "The American" dream would be dead....for everyone.

I respect your good intentions...but alas, they are so poorly thought through it frightening...except for that Cambodia idea

I expect that with an open border policy, there would be banks in the U.S. which would issue loans to desert nomads to buy their plane tickets if they show promise. Perhaps a large number of desert nomads would band together to send their brightest relative to the U.S., to hopefully make enough to send for them. There are many ways it would work out.

Right now, it's obviously cheaper to fly to the U.S. from Latin America than from Africa. There's nothing we can really do about geography. As long as the U.S. is offering the same opportunity to everyone, I don't see it as biased. I don't have any connection to Latin America, per se. I did live in Mexico for a short while, but my fiancee is from just as a remote of a place as Africa... Mongolia is hideously expensive and inconvenient to fly into and out of. My fiancee is a nomad too, by the way

I never said that I am thinking through a practical implementation of this policy, and offering it up to a vote or anything, mind you. There are many, many details which would need to be thought through, and it would take me a very long time to come up with a post that is intelligent and thought-out, to explain the actual implementation and how everything would end up going over the next however many years... What I'm doing by posting here is sharing my ideology and what I think is right while I wait for my fiancee to get her interview date.

Edited April 20, 2013 by duraaraa

[spookyturtle 9,466]

They can process the applications like tourist visas, at the foreign embassies, if they have to. Or people can be issued visas on arrival after a quick database check... the airlines could even determine eligibility when people buy their flight tickets, if it's as easy as checking a database. I don't see the need for a lengthy USCIS-esque process.

You would be surprised how much infrastructure a working force of 600 million could come up with in a year. In time, there would be more cities, more business to do, and more workers to do it. America has a lot of empty land.

Where are they going to work? Live? What are they going to eat? Police? Fire? Schools? Healthcare? Why bother having a quick check at the embassy? Just let them all come. And I'll venture to guess my number is on the low side. This country would turn into Afghanistan overnight. Utter nonsense.

[SaharaSunset 165]

Europe is much closer, and you have a choice of many languages, perhaps one or two you can already function in quite well.

Right. And ask Europeans how they feel about immigration....

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Right. And ask Europeans how they feel about immigration....

Probably about the same as spooky and other posters here: Okay to cut in line for love, not okay to cut in line for work.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

Probably about the same as spooky and other posters here: Okay to cut in line for love, not okay to cut in line for work.

Ok, keep the same number of annual immigrants allowed, but take away visas from the American citizens bringing a loved one here so more people from other parts of the world can come here with their families. Problem solved.

[SaharaSunset 165]

I expect that with an open border policy, there would be banks in the U.S. which would issue loans to desert nomads to buy their plane tickets if they show promise. Perhaps a large number of desert nomads would band together to send their brightest relative to the U.S., to hopefully make enough to send for them. There are many ways it would work out.

Right now, it's obviously cheaper to fly to the U.S. from Latin America than from Africa. There's nothing we can really do about geography. As long as the U.S. is offering the same opportunity to everyone, I don't see it as biased. I don't have any connection to Latin America, per se. I did live in Mexico for a short while, but my fiancee is from just as a remote of a place as Africa... Mongolia is hideously expensive and inconvenient to fly into and out of. My fiancee is a nomad too, by the way

I never said that I am thinking through a practical implementation of this policy, and offering it up to a vote or anything, mind you. There are many, many details which would need to be thought through, and it would take me a very long time to come up with a post that is intelligent and thought-out, to explain the actual implementation and how everything would end up going over the next however many years... What I'm doing by posting here is sharing my ideology and what I think is right while I wait for my fiancee to get her interview date.

On that point you are correct. Sadly there are some who share your idealistic/irrantional views and WOULD vote for such a measure...much to the detriment of U.S. citizens, immigrants, and anyone who doesn't see that (as SpookyTurtle so eloquently stated) with open borders, the U.S. would become Afghanistan overnight.

[berber_wife 90]

But "finding their own way" is NOT FAIR. And aren't you arguing for fairness and equal access for all the world? Mexicans can walk across the border. A plane ticket from Africa averages around $1500-$2000....more than a desert nomad might make in their lifetime....no matter how "motivated" they are. So your plan is biased towards Latin Americans...but yet you want equality for all the world?

Not all Mexicans can just "walk across the border." Mexico's a fairly large country, you know? I can definitely see how those from Southern and Central Mexico could spend a good chunk of money just getting to a border crossing.

I teach Adult ESL classes and there's a guy who has been here for 25 years. He's spent more of my life in the US than he has in Mexico. He's never been back to Mexico. His parents died without him being there. He works full-time and has a family but attends every English class he can. How could I say someone like that doesn't deserve citizenship?

[duraaraa 203]

On that point you are correct. Sadly there are some who share your idealistic/irrantional views and WOULD vote for such a measure...much to the detriment of U.S. citizens, immigrants, and anyone who doesn't see that (as SpookyTurtle so eloquently stated) with open borders, the U.S. would become Afghanistan overnight.

That's the thing... I wouldn't mind if the U.S. became a less-developed country if the tradeoff is true openness to anyone to come live here. That is where everyone disagrees with me, because they want to protect their own quality of life. I can find happiness in Afghanistan, without a problem.

I spent all my savings to start a non-profit to try and help orphaned and poor children in Mongolia, after all... I have a really different viewpoint.

If everybody discounts ideological thinking, we'll never end up with an ideal society

Meanwhile, my tax money gets spent sending drones into Pakistan which don't mind killing innocent children in order to stop potential terrorist threats.

Edited April 20, 2013 by duraaraa

[himher 634]

Not all Mexicans can just "walk across the border." Mexico's a fairly large country, you know? I can definitely see how those from Southern and Central Mexico could spend a good chunk of money just getting to a border crossing.

I teach Adult ESL classes and there's a guy who has been here for 25 years. He's spent more of my life in the US than he has in Mexico. He's never been back to Mexico. His parents died without him being there. He works full-time and has a family but attends every English class he can. How could I say someone like that doesn't deserve citizenship?

If he's been taking English for 25 years he deserves his PhD

[spookyturtle 9,466]

That's the thing... I wouldn't mind if the U.S. became a less-developed country if the tradeoff is true openness to anyone to come live here. That is where everyone disagrees with me, because they want to protect their own quality of life. I can find happiness in Afghanistan, without a problem.

I spent all my savings to start a non-profit to try and help orphaned and poor children in Mongolia, after all... I have a really different viewpoint.

If everybody discounts ideological thinking, we'll never end up with an ideal society

Meanwhile, my tax money gets spent sending drones into Pakistan which don't mind killing innocent children in order to stop potential terrorist threats.

Yea, that would be great, wouldn't it?

[duraaraa 203]

Yea, that would be great, wouldn't it?

I think that is the idea America was founded on. People who didn't like where they were living could move to the U.S. and experience more freedom.