Stop Amnesty

[Darnell 8,478]

Do you like lettuce? Do you drink wine? How about apples? All three of those crops really on seasonal workers, many of whom sneak across the border every spring, and usually return back south of the border every fall.

all of these illegal aliens are easily replaced by teenagers and young adults.

We've had this convo before (you and I, the two of us) .

Edited April 20, 2013 by Darnell

[Darnell 8,478]

I've never met anyone who agrees with me on this point, really. I'm not trying to recruit people to my point of view or anything, and I understand the points of views of others... just wanted to put my own honest view out there.

I don't have the same background as you, and that's ok ...

Each time I'm in a country for more than 2 months, I'm an expat business owner or minority business partner, one of the fat cats that you won't swim with, in that foreign country.

I think the closest we might have in common is the founding of non-profit organizations. I've done it, you've done it, so that's a plus - we've something (prolly the only thing) in common.

IMO, the viability of the thing you are espousing comes at the detriment of the USA, and the infrastructure, and the 'American Dream' that each USCitizen has . But hey, it's just my opinion. If we were drinking buddies, you'd be checking your glass often for strange smelling additions, and that's ok (tis ok we're not drinking buddies, I mean) .

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

all of these illegal aliens are easily replaced by teenagers and young adults.

It has been tried and verified, and won't work, unless those kids were born speaking Spanish. It is difficult to even find second and third generation immigrants willing to work those crops in California and Washington states. They even imported Filipinos while they were still a US colony to pick crops, and their kids were unwilling to do the same work their parents did.

[Darnell 8,478]

sorry, the pool of teenagers and young adults are replaced each season with more teens and more young adults.

That's how it was 50 years ago - and you know that model works. It was always a bootstrap into other stuff - and it always worked.

These 'models' you speak of , alas, are skewed. and that's OK!

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

sorry, the pool of teenagers and young adults are replaced each season with more teens and more young adults.

That's how it was 50 years ago - and you know that model works. It was always a bootstrap into other stuff - and it always worked.

These 'models' you speak of , alas, are skewed. and that's OK!

I was wearing long pants fifty years ago, and it hasn't been the way you speak off since the depression and dust bowl days. All those kids went off to war, and that ended that idea.

[Darnell 8,478]

cool ! we swim in different pools, then. and that's OK !

[SaharaSunset 165]

Do you like lettuce? Do you drink wine? How about apples? All three of those crops really on seasonal workers, many of whom sneak across the border every spring, and usually return back south of the border every fall.

I find this a curious argument, and although I know its used a lot, I'm not sure if I believe it. I wonder....what would happen if the illegal immigrants didn't fill those spots? Would lettuce and wine and apples REALLY disappear from our economy?

Lets say for example, those jobs did get filled....by unskilled(or uneducated) US citizen Laborers....and we have plenty. We are just used to the current system with illegals filling the spots, so we think its the only option. But what if, for example, seasonal "farm labor" became a component of government assistance? What if, in order to receive your "unemployment" checks, you were required to actually work....and you there was work to do because every year those seasonal positions need to be filled. So the government ships you to where ever, sets you up in a little apartment, you work the season, then go home and continue to live off of welfare for the other half of the year. Clearly Americans accept this lifestyle for Mexican laborers, so it shouldn't be beneath us right? And honest hard work is good for the soul and may actually improve the lives of people currently not working. I worked at a restaurant where the kitchen was full of illegal workers - there was literally an immigration bust one night and we lost over half of the kitchen staff. But instead of refilling the jobs with illegal immigrants, the spots were filled with young high school and college kids. And guess what, there obviously were legal residents to fill the spots, and the work was hard, and hot, but they did it. And life moved on. So claiming that could never happen now is silly. It could if we wanted it to.

My point is, there is plenty of labor in the US. And saying Americans won't do it, or will think its beneath them is nonsense. I may be wrong, but when was the last time we tried it out to see? And if no one would do the jobs illegal seasonal workers do, because farm labor is getting away with paying less than minimum wage (because they can pay under the table) then SHAME ON THEM for abusing the fellowmen! That should be stopped.

Again, I'm not an economist, but I do feel that this argument is thrown around in educated circles, where people would of course balk at hard manual labor for $8 an hour. But I think we underestimate the work ethic lying dormant so many of our less educated, unskilled citizens. And if we have created a "entitled" society, then we need to break it down and go back to the principals that this country was supposedly founded on anyway...hard work! Just a thought.

Edited April 20, 2013 by SaharaSunset

[duraaraa 203]

it really smells like the American Way of Life isn't for you

That's very true. It's not for me. It's just the cards I was dealt. I probably would have had a better fit had I been born into a Vanuatu tribal community.

As for leaving the U.S., I have done that, and very well may do it again. I'm here now because I was born here, and I want for my step-kids to get an education which is respected around the world, and that's the reason I'm back in the U.S. A U.S. education guarantees a job in Mongolia, and it also gives them an opportunity to pursue their interests anywhere in the world they want.

Not to mention my family would hate me for getting married and raising their step-grandkids somewhere they can't visit easily.

[GandD 5,966]

That's very true. It's not for me. It's just the cards I was dealt. I probably would have had a better fit had I been born into a Vanuatu tribal community.

As for leaving the U.S., I have done that, and very well may do it again. I'm here now because I was born here, and I want for my step-kids to get an education which is respected around the world, and that's the reason I'm back in the U.S. A U.S. education guarantees a job in Mongolia, and it also gives them an opportunity to pursue their interests anywhere in the world they want.

Not to mention my family would hate me for getting married and raising their step-grandkids somewhere they can't visit easily.

Please don't complain about the states the entire time you're here. It will annoy the rest of us.

[duraaraa 203]

Please don't complain about the states the entire time you're here. It will annoy the rest of us.

Please don't misunderstand what I'm saying as complaining. There are things I like and don't like about the U.S., but I was agreeing with Darnell, in that the values of the U.S. do not match my own personal values.

I certainly hope that when I say, "I don't like the taste of eggs," that people who do like eggs aren't annoyed/offended.

But if I am being viewed in that way, I'll keep my thoughts to myself. The last thing I want to do is annoy people.

[Darnell 8,478]

That's very true. It's not for me. It's just the cards I was dealt. I probably would have had a better fit had I been born into a Vanuatu tribal community.

As for leaving the U.S., I have done that, and very well may do it again. I'm here now because I was born here, and I want for my step-kids to get an education which is respected around the world, and that's the reason I'm back in the U.S. A U.S. education guarantees a job in Mongolia, and it also gives them an opportunity to pursue their interests anywhere in the world they want.

Not to mention my family would hate me for getting married and raising their step-grandkids somewhere they can't visit easily.

is ok - i understand your base and POV, truly.

I've jumped out of country 3 times now, and will do it again several more times.

I've a cousin who has the same approach as you - I've been on his board of directors for his non-profit almost 10 years now, we raise a lot of money for his stuff. see? when it's family, i have a different opinion, la.

Seriously, no worries on opposing POVs, but when I see something like this (again), I'm reminded of my cousin, my dear cousin, and sometimes I just wanna bite nails or load ammo. It's not you personally, no.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

My point is, there is plenty of labor in the US. And saying Americans won't do it, or will think its beneath them is nonsense.

I tend to agree with that sentiment. Every restaurant, meat packaging plant, lawn service, construction business that was raided and lost their slave labor has managed to stay in business with American labor. I remember the stories of long lines of job applicants at meat packaging plants that had to hire large numbers of people quickly because they were caught red handed exploiting illegal immigrants. People do want to work. They also want equitable compensation and I don't think it's too much to ask.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

Please don't misunderstand what I'm saying as complaining. There are things I like and don't like about the U.S., but I was agreeing with Darnell, in that the values of the U.S. do not match my own personal values.

I certainly hope that when I say, "I don't like the taste of eggs," that people who do like eggs aren't annoyed/offended.

But if I am being viewed in that way, I'll keep my thoughts to myself. The last thing I want to do is annoy people.

I hope that you will continue to contribute and express your opinions. I disagree with you on this subject but you are certainly not trying to change peoples minds and you're not cramming your opinion down everyone's throat.

[GandD 5,966]

Please don't misunderstand what I'm saying as complaining. There are things I like and don't like about the U.S., but I was agreeing with Darnell, in that the values of the U.S. do not match my own personal values.

I certainly hope that when I say, "I don't like the taste of eggs," that people who do like eggs aren't annoyed/offended.

But if I am being viewed in that way, I'll keep my thoughts to myself. The last thing I want to do is annoy people.

Get a load of captain nice guy over here...........I was half kidding. Don't worry, even the people that love this country complain all the time. Refer to the rest of this page.

[justashooter 430]

If they want to live in the U.S., why not let them do it legally?

because chuck norris says they can't.

hey, if i want to live in your house and eat your food and sleep with your wife, why not let me?