Jamie Foxx's T-shirt causes an outrage

[decocker 7,198]

How do you know all these things? I guess I didn't get the white guy memo that says we're not supposed to call the cops on other white guys we think are suspicious. Maybe since I married an Asian, they took me off the white guy mailing list.

there are plenty of people, even on this board, who equate young black male youth with thuggery - until proven otherwise.

young white male youth do not have to deal with such a burden of proof.

[GandD 5,966]

Why? Because GZ would have been locked up off the bat.

That's a stretch

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

How do you know all these things? I guess I didn't get the white guy memo that says we're not supposed to call the cops on other white guys we think are suspicious. Maybe since I married an Asian, they took me off the white guy mailing list.

http://newsone.com/2212460/john-mcneil-freed/

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/john-white-convicted-killing-daniel-cicciaro-pardoned-gov-david-paterson-article-1.474441

Both of these cases were more clear than GZ/TM, and yet both men(black) were sentenced to jail time immediately.

there are plenty of people, even on this board, who equate young black male youth with thuggery - until proven otherwise.

young white male youth do not have to deal with such a burden of proof.

Check the links I provided, I agree with you. TM was guilty in GZ's mind the second he saw him, he didn't even try to assuge that guilt by asking TM in the open and public view who he was and identify himself.

[Karee 4,191]

http://newsone.com/2...n-mcneil-freed/

http://www.nydailyne...rticle-1.474441

Both of these cases were more clear than GZ/TM, and yet both men(black) were sentenced to jail time immediately.

Check the links I provided, I agree with you. TM was guilty in GZ's mind the second he saw him, he didn't even try to assuge that guilt by asking TM in the open and public view who he was and identify himself.

Is it even possible in your mind that GZ is not guilty of murder?

[duraaraa 203]

there are plenty of people, even on this board, who equate young black male youth with thuggery - until proven otherwise.

young white male youth do not have to deal with such a burden of proof.

I live near Los Angeles. In the part of Los Angeles I live, there isn't a gang problem, and I'm not worried by people I see hanging around, regardless of race, unless they look really suspicious and out-of-place.

On the other hand, if I go to an area I'm unfamiliar with, and I see people dressed like gang members and talking like gang members, I will be suspicious. They could be white, black, Asian, or Central/South American, and it wouldn't matter... what makes me suspicious is the way they dress, the way they talk, and the way they act.

The problem is, there are many kids, black or otherwise, who are good kids, but dress, talk, and act like this to fit in, or because they think it's cool. It's really hard to know who is a cold-blooded gang member, and who is a kid who is following the latest urban fashion. Especially for me, who just recently returned to LA after living abroad.

I should mention that in Japan, or Mongolia, there are lots of young people who follow the American urban fashion, listen to hip hop, wear baggy clothes, even flash gang signs. I am not suspicious or afraid of them at all, because I know, for a fact, that they are just following a trend, and are not real gangsters.

Edited April 17, 2013 by duraaraa

[GandD 5,966]

Is it even possible in your mind that GZ is not guilty of murder?

Holding breath.......

[Karee 4,191]

Holding breath.......

Don't. I know the answer already.

[Penny Lane 8,159]

In my opinion, it's entirely possible that GZ isn't guilty of murder. I don't think it's likely, but there's always a possibility. He likely honestly believes he was acting in self defense. And TM likely thought he was doing the same thing.

It's TM's standpoint that I can relate to, though. I can understand why TM would have reacted physically to being followed and questioned by a stranger not identifying himself.

I cannot, however, understand a grown man, armed, following a teenager for no reason other than he was walking around his neighborhood. It doesn't make sense to me.

[GandD 5,966]

In my opinion, it's entirely possible that GZ isn't guilty of murder. I don't think it's likely, but there's always a possibility. He likely honestly believes he was acting in self defense. And TM likely thought he was doing the same thing.

It's TM's standpoint that I can relate to, though. I can understand why TM would have reacted physically to being followed and questioned by a stranger not identifying himself.

I cannot, however, understand a grown man, armed, following a teenager for no reason other than he was walking around his neighborhood. It doesn't make sense to me.

I like this statement a lot.

[B_J 2,752]

But here is my question. Why does everyone assume that TM is the one who started the altercation? You have a kid walking home from the store minding his own business, talking on the phone to his girlfriend. GZ is coming home from Target, I agree both are oblivious to each other. Here is where that changes, GZ sees TM and calls the cops immediately, TM is still walking home doing nothing wrong. TM notices this and starts to walk faster, trying to lose GZ, because at this point GZ has yet to identify himself. He clearly had a mad on for this kid, yet he is the one painted as the victim. He then gets out of his car, with his gun and starts to run after him, for about a minute or two. Yet folks still believe that TM started this altercation. Even with the cops coming, he still chose to keep looking for Tm, at this point, what was the purpose? The cops were already on the way, there was no way to defuse it since he spent 4 minutes chasing him in a vehice and on foot, and GZ's mind was already made up with comments like they always get away. So why is TM the aggressor? Because he hit GZ? We have no idea what GZ said to TM or did. But it's amazing that folks are more than willing to give GZ the benefit of the doubt, even though he did everything in his power to paint this kid as a criminal and force a confrontation out of him, but we can't give one to the kid running away from the situation, and maybe got tired of running and decided to stand his ground.

Here's my take on the whole story:

If I remember correctly, it was a rainy night and Trayvon was at the clubhouse for the subdivision. There's no indication he was doing anything wrong - he may have just been getting out of the rain. But GZ saw somebody at the clubhouse and he looked suspicious. And, honestly, it could look suspicious. Then Trayvon continued walking home. But GZ saw him with his hands in his waistband and, I guess he's hyper-paranoid and to him that could mean he had a weapon. To me, that's the way somebody walks with a hoodie on in the rain - with their hands in the pockets of the hoodie.

Then GZ follows this person who looked suspicious. And TM noticed somebody following him. So now they are both hyper-paranoid. And, I can totally understand the view of both people. I don't really think either one is doing anything wrong.

And nothing would have happened if there hadn't been a physical altercation. And the only reason I think the Trayvon probably started it was because there is not a single mark on him from a fight, except on his knuckles. Zimmerman has clearly been beaten. If there was a bloody nose, a black eye, a bruise, or even a scratch - I'd be ready to put all the blame on Zimmerman. But, from what I've read, only Zimmerman had been beaten.

And there is nothing in the transcripts that shows that Zimmerman continued looking for Trayvon after the cops told him not to. I think the girl is the one who says Trayvon asked the guy why he was following him. So, Zimmerman admits to not knowing where the kid is, talks to the cops about where to meet, Trayvon approaches Zimmerman, Zimmerman's face shows that he's been beaten, there is no evidence that Zimmerman landed a punch on Trayvon. So, from that, I conclude that Trayvon started the altercation. And that's what matters to me. Who threw the first punch? If there was a witness who said it was Zimmerman, then I'd say death penalty for him. But, it just doesn't look like that's what happened.

By the way, why do you keep assuming that Zimmerman kept looking for Trayvon after the cops said he didn't need to and he said okay? Is it impossible to assume that he really was going back and Trayvon started the physical altercation?

[Karee 4,191]

It seems to me that alot of people's minds are made up about this, simply because TM was black. As I stated earlier if this was a white kid, we wouldn't even be talking about it.

Whoever came up with TM and GZ in place of the full names, thank you for that.

[Karee 4,191]

Here's my take on the whole story:

If I remember correctly, it was a rainy night and Trayvon was at the clubhouse for the subdivision. There's no indication he was doing anything wrong - he may have just been getting out of the rain. But GZ saw somebody at the clubhouse and he looked suspicious. And, honestly, it could look suspicious. Then Trayvon continued walking home. But GZ saw him with his hands in his waistband and, I guess he's hyper-paranoid and to him that could mean he had a weapon. To me, that's the way somebody walks with a hoodie on in the rain - with their hands in the pockets of the hoodie.

Then GZ follows this person who looked suspicious. And TM noticed somebody following him. So now they are both hyper-paranoid. And, I can totally understand the view of both people. I don't really think either one is doing anything wrong.

And nothing would have happened if there hadn't been a physical altercation. And the only reason I think the Trayvon probably started it was because there is not a single mark on him from a fight, except on his knuckles. Zimmerman has clearly been beaten. If there was a bloody nose, a black eye, a bruise, or even a scratch - I'd be ready to put all the blame on Zimmerman. But, from what I've read, only Zimmerman had been beaten.

And there is nothing in the transcripts that shows that Zimmerman continued looking for Trayvon after the cops told him not to. I think the girl is the one who says Trayvon asked the guy why he was following him. So, Zimmerman admits to not knowing where the kid is, talks to the cops about where to meet, Trayvon approaches Zimmerman, Zimmerman's face shows that he's been beaten, there is no evidence that Zimmerman landed a punch on Trayvon. So, from that, I conclude that Trayvon started the altercation. And that's what matters to me. Who threw the first punch? If there was a witness who said it was Zimmerman, then I'd say death penalty for him. But, it just doesn't look like that's what happened.

By the way, why do you keep assuming that Zimmerman kept looking for Trayvon after the cops said he didn't need to and he said okay? Is it impossible to assume that he really was going back and Trayvon started the physical altercation?

Read back a few pages. GZ deserved an a$$ kicking for following him.

[Penny Lane 8,159]

Read back a few pages. GZ deserved an a$$ kicking for following him.

Deserved? No.

But TM didn't "deserve" to be followed and questioned either. He wasn't doing anything to warrant GZ's attention.

[decocker 7,198]

The problem is, there are many kids, black or otherwise, who are good kids, but dress, talk, and act like this to fit in, or because they think it's cool. It's really hard to know who is a cold-blooded gang member, and who is a kid who is following the latest urban fashion. Especially for me, who just recently returned to LA after living abroad.

I should mention that in Japan, or Mongolia, there are lots of young people who follow the American urban fashion, listen to hip hop, wear baggy clothes, even flash gang signs. I am not suspicious or afraid of them at all, because I know, for a fact, that they are just following a trend, and are not real gangsters.

and this would be a good reason not to assume that a person is a gang member because of their clothing, or speech, or flash gang signs. clothing, speech, and gang signs do not equate to criminal. it equates to popular culture. we may think it's twisted, but that's normally how older generations perceive the new.

[Penny Lane 8,159]

I must say, though ... it amazes me how some people here seem to think they would react rationally and calmly to a stranger following them and demanding answers from them on a rainy night on the street.

Especially the people who said they'd grab their gun if someone they didn't know pulled into their driveway.

Edited April 17, 2013 by Evylin