Jamie Foxx's T-shirt causes an outrage

[GandD 5,966]

If you create a conflict and it escalates, I can't feel bad for you. You created the situation with your wrongful actions. If someone was following me at night and demanding answers out of me, I would feel uncomfortable. I probably couldn't take down anyone physically, so I would run.

Imagine I COULD take the person down. If I run, and the guy starts chasing me, am I only allowed to keep running or can I attempt to take care of the situation myself? Keep in mind I do not know who this person is or why they're questioning me and why they're chasing me. What are my options? I am feeling threatened, unarmed, and there's nobody around to get me out of this situation. So it's all up to me.

What do I get to do that's acceptable?

Reports say he did question TM and TM continued to walk. Maybe not run, but continued to walk AWAY from the situation. GZ admitted to following him. Until he lost him.

Remember the old school rules? Whoever throws the first punch got in trouble. Teachers never cared about anything that came before that. Although now I think both people tend to get in trouble. But I think a punch thrown is a new level of conflict that got created by the person responsible for it. In my mind a heated argument doesn't allow you to move to this next level.

As for your options? I suppose legally I don't know the specifics. Based on the amount of people carrying around guns, I wouldn't suggest confronting anyone at this point unless you're defending yourself.

[Penny Lane 8,159]

In the reports I read TM disappeared and GZ stopped to see where he went. TM approached from behind and ambushed him. I have not read anywhere that they spoke before the altercation.

A friend was on the phone with TM at the time. A girlfriend, maybe, I forget.

And she heard him say a man was following him and didn't know why. He put his hoodie on and kept walking. She heard TM ask GZ why he was following him, and she heard GZ demand to know what TM was doing there. That's when she heard the physical altercation begin.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

guess gz should have listened to the police and stayed in his truck. escalation certainly counts.

actually he was out already out of his truck trying to see where he went, when they told him not to follow him. GZ said Ok... and by most accounts was heading back to his truck when he was attacked.

I know they are just facts... not important.

[Penny Lane 8,159]

Remember the old school rules? Whoever throws the first punch got in trouble. Teachers never cared about anything that came before that. Although now I think both people tend to get in trouble. But I think a punch thrown is a new level of conflict that got created by the person responsible for it. In my mind a heated argument doesn't allow you to move to this next level.

As for your options? I suppose legally I don't know the specifics. Based on the amount of people carrying around guns, I wouldn't suggest confronting anyone at this point unless you're defending yourself.

So TM created the situation that lead to his death?

What if I feel like I am defending myself? I know I would feel threatened and scared if someone was following me at night and demanding to know what I was doing. I'd be completely out of my element. I don't have a gun. I don't know if the other guy does. Do I keep walking/running and hope he goes away? Or am I allowed to turn around and attempt to physically take care of myself?

In the same way I'm sure GZ felt like he was defending himself, TM likely thought he was as well.

actually he was out already out of his truck trying to see where he went, when they told him not to follow him. GZ said Ok... and by most accounts was heading back to his truck when he was attacked.

I know they are just facts... not important.

What GZ said aren't facts just because he said them. Stop quoting "most accounts" because nobody saw it happen. In your mind, everything GZ says is considered "most accounts" ...

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

The girlfriend better known as witness 8.. has already been charged with perjury.

Show me the phone records, you know the ones that say he was on the phone at the time of the altercation.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

A friend was on the phone with TM at the time. A girlfriend, maybe, I forget.

And she heard him say a man was following him and didn't know why. He put his hoodie on and kept walking. She heard TM ask GZ why he was following him, and she heard GZ demand to know what TM was doing there. That's when she heard the physical altercation begin.

You do know she has already been caught lying under oath about multiple things

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

actually he was out already out of his truck trying to see where he went, when they told him not to follow him. GZ said Ok... and by most accounts was heading back to his truck when he was attacked.

I know they are just facts... not important.

He wasn't looking to see where he was, he was following him. He even said it verbatim. They asked him if he was he following him, he said yes.

[decocker 7,198]

The girlfriend better known as witness 8.. has already been charged with perjury.

wrong.

Sanford police found no witnesses to the initial confrontation, but Trayvon's family attorney, Benjamin Crump, found something close: Trayvon's girlfriend, identified in court records as "witness 8." She told Crump she had been on the phone with Trayvon just before the shooting.

According to an interview Crump recorded after the shooting, the young woman said Trayvon told her a stranger was following him, and he was scared. Trayvon got away from him once, but the man reappeared, she said, and she heard Trayvon ask, "'What are you following me for?'"

The man answered, "'What are you doing here?'" she said, and then she said the man must have pushed Trayvon because the phone went dead.

The woman gave de la Rionda a very similar account during a sworn statement April 2, and when his office wrote up its probable-cause affidavit, charging Zimmerman with second-degree murder, it rehashed her account but did not include her allegation that she heard Zimmerman push Trayvon.

Despite's Tuesday's revelation, there is no indication the woman lied about what she heard on the phone the evening Trayvon was shot. But she appears to have given Crump another piece of bad information: her age.

He told reporters in March, when he played excerpts from the recorded interview, that she was 16 years old. In fact, she was 18 at the time. Crump has said he did not knowingly misrepresent her age.

O'Mara would not say whether the woman should be prosecuted for perjury for lying under oath about being in the hospital.

But months ago, he and co-counsel Don West began trying to investigate her. They earlier persuaded the judge to allow them to subpoena her Twitter and Facebook accounts so they can read her posts.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2013-03-05/news/os-zimmerman-witness-8-medical-records-20130305_1_george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-bernie-de-la-rionda

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

You do know she has already been caught lying under oath about multiple things

Yes about being in the hospital on his funeral day, and her age, but not about that night.

[Penny Lane 8,159]

You do know she has already been caught lying under oath about multiple things

What are these multiple things?

All I can find is she lied about her location on the day of his funeral and maybe about her age.

Nothing I'm reading indicates she lied about the phone call. Do you have info I'm not seeing anywhere?

Edited April 17, 2013 by Evylin

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

What are these multiple things?

I'm looking and the only thing I can find that she lied about was her whereabouts on the day of Martin's funeral.

She lied about her age.

[GandD 5,966]

So TM created the situation that lead to his death?

No. That's not what I'm saying. The gun created the death situation. Granted I suppose people have died from beatings.

What if I feel like I am defending myself? I know I would feel threatened and scared if someone was following me at night and demanding to know what I was doing. I'd be completely out of my element. I don't have a gun. I don't know if the other guy does. Do I keep walking/running and hope he goes away? Or am I allowed to turn around and attempt to physically take care of myself?

I wouldn't suggest it. The guy could have a gun and he might make a bad decision with it.

In the same way I'm sure GZ felt like he was defending himself, TM likely thought he was as well.

Two scared people for sure and I completely agree with this. I keep saying it i know, but I wouldn't confront anyone in this manor. Does it mean TM deserved death or "got what he deserved"? Hell no.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

911-transcripts:

http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/326700-full-transcript-zimmerman.html

http://bizsecurity.about.com/od/creatingpolicies/a/A-Transcript-Of-The-George-Zimmerman-Police-Call.htm

http://www.examiner.com/article/george-zimmerman-s-911-call-transcribed

[Penny Lane 8,159]

Funny how people will mention the little things (not the phone call) that Trayvon's girlfriend lied about. But nobody likes to mention the various changes in GZ's story.

[B_J 2,752]

He wasn't looking to see where he was, he was following him. He even said it verbatim. They asked him if he was he following him, he said yes.

Something to add to the "facts".... When the police told GZ that they didn't need him to follow TM, his response was "okay" He didn't ignore what the police said, he followed their instructions. The conversation with the police then veered towards where GZ would meet the police. At this time, GZ had no idea where TM was. That was why he didn't give the police his home address; because he had no idea where TM was. Sadly, the confrontation that led to the death of TM happened because TM approached GZ.