Jamie Foxx's T-shirt causes an outrage

[Teddy B 17,252]

Do you know what the sad part is in this case? Depending on who you ask, Tm might not have had a choice in the matter. I completely forgot about this: http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-arrest-now-abc-reveals-crucial-phone/story?id=15959017

"He said this man was watching him, so he put his hoodie on. He said he lost the man," Martin's friend said. "I asked Trayvon to run, and he said he was going to walk fast. I told him to run, but he said he was not going to run."

Eventually, he would run, said the girl, thinking that he'd managed to escape. But suddenly the strange man was back, cornering Martin.

"Trayvon said, 'What are you following me for,' and the man said, 'What are you doing here.' Next thing I hear is somebody pushing, and somebody pushed Trayvon because the head set just fell. I called him again, and he didn't answer the phone."

So I agree with you Teddy, if he chose to fight rather than run, it's tragic, but what if he was cornered? I guess this will have to come to trial as well.

All of these questions will hopefully be answered at the trial. It's tragic either way. An innocent teenage boy has lost his life and another man has completely destroyed his own. Nobody wins.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

Yes

Look, I want to go on record here an say I think GZ was the instigator in this situation. That neighborhood did not need him protecting them from TM. But I don't know of a way to cure this world of the GZs. In fact, we make a lot of them cops. So, I think TM was a victim that should have ran from the aggressor. Never fight a man with a gun.

He tried to, that's the point, GZ had to chase him down. The only thing right now that can come out in trial and maybe shed the much needed light in this is did TM double back and catch GZ by surprise, or did GZ catch up to TM?

All of these questions will hopefully be answered at the trial. It's tragic either way. An innocent teenage boy has lost his life and another man has completely destroyed his own. Nobody wins.

Agreed.

[decocker 7,198]

In fact, we make a lot of them cops.

this is certainly true.

and if gz had been a cop, we would probably accept his version of the story and use of deadly force and gz would be back patrolling the streets after maybe a week or so paid vacation while everything got sorted and the heat died down..

[GandD 5,966]

He tried to, that's the point, GZ had to chase him down. The only thing right now that can come out in trial and maybe shed the much needed light in this is did TM double back and catch GZ by surprise, or did GZ catch up to TM?

Yeah, I really don't know the specifics of the altercation but when I did read about it, no one did. GZ def followed the kid and alerted the police but we don't specifically know what happened after that. Was the kid running from him? Was he aware GZ was following him before the incident?

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

This is true. I think people are bringing this up because some TM supporters started using the opposite tactic to proclaim his innocence. It started, by some people saying, this poor innocent kid was gunned down. Then the other side researched him and used facts to show he wasn't such a great kid. Then the original side researched GZ and found out he wasn't such a good guy either. Now both sides use backgrounds to support their particular agenda. Most likely this is a result of two aggressive people meeting and making bad choices. I assume neither tried to avoid the other and it escalated from there. Guy with the gun won as they usually do. The gun part is the real shame. Its just so final.

Very well articulated and spot on.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

Yeah, I really don't know the specifics of the altercation but when I did read about it, no one did. GZ def followed the kid and alerted the police but we don't specifically know what happened after that. Was the kid running from him? Was he aware GZ was following him before the incident?

To answer your questions:

TM was aware he was being followed, if you check my last post with the link it shows he was on the phone with someone and told them he was being followed, hence the reason he put his hoodie on. He was walking fast trying to get away from him, and then he started to run before GZ caught up to him, as per the phone conversation.

Now let's say that isn't true, let's say that TM got tired of walking/running and decided to stand his ground. He felt threatned and thought that fighting was the only way out. Why is that such a problem for him, yet for GZ who followed him in the first place, it isn't.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

Or maybe people need to focus on the race and realize that the only reason why they find the murder of a teen acceptable is because that teen happened to be black.

This clip illustrates the point quite nicely.

You don't enable aggressive yahoos to run around with firearms. That's how it works. Sad that one has to spell it out.

Well since ware basing facts on one my favorite scene from my favorite movie. An almost all white jury did not convict a black man in the deep south for gunning down two handcuffed redneck swine in cold blood.

So your if your clip is proof it is proof of blacks being treated fairly.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

as a 17 year old male - the instinct is not to run from another male in pursuit. we do not teach our almost adult male children to run when confronted, do we?

gz was not a cop. he was not in uniform. in my opinion, tm could have sat on top of gz and beat gz's face in till the cops got there and been perfectly justified. gz had no business getting out of his car - period.

So you think because some guy ask you a question you have the right to beat his face in.. You sure have a warped sense of right and wrong. If you read most accounts TM had disappeared. GZ turned to get back in his truck and was attacked from behind.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Well since ware basing facts on one my favorite scene from my favorite movie. An almost all white jury did not convict a black man in the deep south for gunning down two handcuffed redneck swine in cold blood.

So your if your clip is proof it is proof of blacks being treated fairly.

1) It's a movie.

2) You're missing the point.

The point being that the only thing that got the man off in this movie is the fact that the attorney managed to confront the jury with their own prejudices. Prejudices which would cause those same people to not judge harshly those young men that raped and brutalized and almost killed a little girl only because that little girl happened to be black. And that is exactly what we're looking at here. The "take it easy on Zimmerman because the victim was just a black punk" attitude.

Edited April 17, 2013 by Mr. Big Dog

[GandD 5,966]

Now let's say that isn't true, let's say that TM got tired of walking/running and decided to stand his ground. He felt threatned and thought that fighting was the only way out. Why is that such a problem for him, yet for GZ who followed him in the first place, it isn't.

In principle its what you should do. In practical applications, I'm not stopping if some random dude starts yelling at me. It is a problem GZ followed him. I'm not excusing him and I should be clear I'm not blaming TM. I'm just saying, the only way I'd be fighting in that situation is if GZ actually grabbed me and at that point I'm doing what I can to get away.

[decocker 7,198]

So you think because some guy ask you a question you have the right to beat his face in.. You sure have a warped sense of right and wrong. If you read most accounts TM had disappeared. GZ turned to get back in his truck and was attacked from behind.

wow. that is not at all what i think - or what happened.

if you're going to come at me with vague bs like 'if you read most accounts' do me a favor and give me links. pretty sure you and i don't get our information from the same sources..

[Penny Lane 8,159]

So you think because some guy ask you a question you have the right to beat his face in.. You sure have a warped sense of right and wrong. If you read most accounts TM had disappeared. GZ turned to get back in his truck and was attacked from behind.

So if TM felt threatened being followed and questioned by a stranger at night, he does not have the right to (in his mind) defend himself? Is it "right" to get out of your car and follow a stranger demanding to know who they are and what they're doing?

GZ should never have gotten out of his car to follow someone he didn't know and for no reason. Yet you keep ignoring that part. A situation would have never escalated if he'd done what he was supposed to do. Stay in his car and call the cops and let them do their job.

The double standard on these boards is amazing to me. How can someone initiate a conflict and then claim self defense?

You guys who are always stating that people need to cling to their guns to defend themselves ... are somehow blaming this kid and saying he did something wrong by attacking someone who was chasing him. TM had tried to run away. GZ did not want that to happen. Took matters into his own incapable hands and now a kid is dead and GZ is going on trial for murder.

Should only the armed folks defend themselves or their property? I'm curious as to how the rules work for different people.

Edited April 17, 2013 by Evylin

[GandD 5,966]

You seem to be the voice of reason in P&R. Your days here are numbered.

Nice

[Karee 4,190]

I love how everything about this case gets presented as fact here in P&R.

[Penny Lane 8,159]

I love how everything about this case gets presented as fact here in P&R.

I think we all know it's purely speculation. Nobody here saw what went down. All we can do is debate what we THINK happened.