Palestinian-American boy, 14, locked up in Israeli military jail

[himher 634]

Well I don't know that I said never. But the Singapore caning was a good example.

The Singapore caning, which was application of the law in Singapore to an American kid just as it would be applied to a local kid has NOTHING to do with separate, completely different applications of the law to Jewish kids and Palestanian kids.

[GandD 5,966]

The Singapore caning, which was application of the law in Singapore to an American kid just as it would be applied to a local kid has NOTHING to do with separate, completely different applications of the law to Jewish kids and Palestanian kids.

I thought what I was discussing was inaction from the United States on the jailing and torture of one of its citizens found in violation of a sovereign nation's law. (Fine, the west bank is up for debate but preferably not with me)

Let me make sure I say this again. I don't think kids should be tortured for throwing rocks at cars. I disagree with Israel doing this. Or caned after stealing for that matter.

[Boiler 46,156]

The UK does not have birth right citizenship like the US, but certainly there is a significant difference in perception between someone who is a 'native' citizen and someone who has UK citizenship but is of a different ethnicity in these sort of circumstances.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Well I don't know that I said never. But the Singapore caning was a good example.

I am not sure that the Singapore caning case fulfills the State Department conditions, as there is no internationally-recognized law against it, as specifically mentioned on the State Department page:

We can and do monitor conditions in foreign prisons and can protest allegations of abuse against U.S. citizen prisoners when requested to do so. We work with prison officials to ensure treatment consistent with internationally recognized standards of human rights and to ensure that Americans are afforded due process under local laws.

Certainly Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch consider caning to be "cruel, inhuman or degrading punishment" (and I would agree with them) and some human rights observers consider it "torture" (and they may well make the case for that.) But there is still not a clear international consensus against caning. So perhaps this is the reason for no US government involvement ?

However, there is a clear consensus on how children may be treated in custody.

http://www.loc.gov/law/help/child-rights/international-law.php

And the State Department and other US government officials certainly have been known to get involved with some cases involving American citizens held in foreign custody who are believed to be either abused or denied due process. For instance, look at the response to the case of this American citizen, being held in prison in Cuba:

U.S. National Security Council spokesman Tommy Vietor responded to the ruling, saying that it "adds another injustice to Alan Gross's ordeal", and that "he has already spent too many days in detention and should not spend one more", and asked for "the immediate release of Mr. Gross so that he can return home to his wife and family".[18]

U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton told reporters that Gross had been "unjustly jailed for far too long... He needs to be able to leave Cuba and return home", adding "this is a matter of great personal pain to his family and concern to the U.S. government".[18]

Several members of Congress have visited Cuba to see Gross.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Phillip_Gross

And here is a US government response to an American citizen being held in Iran:

Press Statement

John Kerry

Secretary of State

Washington, DC

March 22, 2013

I am deeply concerned about the fate of U.S citizen Saeed Abedini, who has been detained for nearly six months and was sentenced to eight years in prison in Iran on charges related to his religious beliefs. I am disturbed by reports that Mr. Abedini has suffered physical and psychological abuse in prison, and that his condition has become increasingly dire. Such mistreatment violates international norms as well as Iran’s own laws.

I am also troubled by the lack of due process in Mr. Abedini’s case and Iran’s continued refusal to allow consular access by Swiss authorities, the U.S. protecting power in Iran. I welcome reports that Mr. Abedini was examined by a physician and expect Iranian authorities to honor their commitment to allow Mr. Abedini to receive treatment for these injuries from a specialist outside the prison. The best outcome for Mr. Abedini is that he be immediately released.

http://www.state.gov/secretary/remarks/2013/03/206578.htm

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Going back to Mohammed al-Azza (the photographer/filmmaker who was shot in the face, whose story is on the second page of this thread) - one of his short films tells the story of a 16-year-old boy, Ali. He was arrested by Israeli soldiers who came to his home at 4am, blindfolded him and took him away - and was eventually sentenced to 8 years in prison. Wait 'til you see what his "crime" was:

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

I thought what I was discussing was inaction from the United States on the jailing and torture of one of its citizens found in violation of a sovereign nation's law. (Fine, the west bank is up for debate but preferably not with me)

Let me make sure I say this again. I don't think kids should be tortured for throwing rocks at cars. I disagree with Israel doing this. Or caned after stealing for that matter.

It's a discussion of all the issues from the OP topic.

US policy as well as international consensus clearly state that the West Bank is occupied territory, not sovereign Israeli territory. So there's really no debate about that.

I 100% agree with your final paragraph.

Anyone want to venture a guess yet about what the Israeli army is doing in Silwad ?

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

They had a craving for Kiwi.

They had a craving for something, but it wasn't kiwi.

[OriZ 3,157]

You keep making this claim. Do you have any data to back it up ? I mean something that specifically documents that the US government never does anything on behalf of American citizens held in foreign custody.

Ever watch banged up abroad? plenty of examples there

[Karee 4,191]

Ever watch banged up abroad? plenty of examples there

Yeah exactly. I remember being detained in Thailand and calling the Embassy's 24 hour emergency number for USCs. It just rang and rang. I found it ironic they make US Citizens pay taxes when they don't live in the U.S. yet you ask for help and they don't answer the phone. Anyway, that's another topic.

[sandinista! 1,816]

Yeah exactly. I remember being detained in Thailand and calling the Embassy's 24 hour emergency number for USCs. It just rang and rang. I found it ironic they make US Citizens pay taxes when they don't live in the U.S. yet you ask for help and they don't answer the phone. Anyway, that's another topic.

Everything hopefully turned out ok?

[Karee 4,191]

Everything hopefully turned out ok?

They wanted me to sign a confession in Thai, which I couldn't read. I refused. They showed me what the inside of a Thai jail looked like. I immediately signed, and they let me go.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Yeah exactly. I remember being detained in Thailand and calling the Embassy's 24 hour emergency number for USCs. It just rang and rang. I found it ironic they make US Citizens pay taxes when they don't live in the U.S. yet you ask for help and they don't answer the phone. Anyway, that's another topic.

I was under curfew for weeks in Palestine (like everybody else) and the Israelis had cut off all phone service and internet to the outside world - you could only make local calls, and no internet at all. I was able to contact the consulate in East Jerusalem which would relay messages to/from my family, etc. But the rest of their "help" was completely useless - first they told me to "watch the local news on TV to know when the curfew was lifted." They weren't even aware that there was no local news on TV - the Israelis had taken over the TV station and dialed up some German porn channel off satellite and were broadcasting that on the Palestinian news channel. (Will try to dig up a picture - don't worry Charles there will be no areola.) Then she told me that I "could know when the curfew was lifted by looking in the street to see if any cars and people were moving around." Well DUH I would have never figured that out on my own

[Karee 4,191]

- the Israelis had taken over the TV station and dialed up some German porn channel off satellite and were broadcasting that on the Palestinian news channel.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

It may seem kinda funny in a way to an outsider, but it is intended to be a form of deliberate harassment with no military purpose - this is a news channel, and unsuspecting families would tune in for information about when the curfew would be lifted, etc. - and this would playing in front of their kids.

It's interesting to note the particular genre of fetish that appealed to these particular soldiers in choosing which channel they wanted to broadcast - it's an insight to the mentality.

Sexual harassment of Palestinian women and girls (and even boys and men) is sadly not so unusual with the Israeli army - I have witnessed incidents such as soldiers in uniform dropping their pants and making masturbatory gestures in front of young Palestinian schoolgirls as they were forced to walk past them to get home from class.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Ever watch banged up abroad? plenty of examples there

These are all drug dealers, convicted under laws that affect anyone arrested in those countries for drugs.

It's hardly an equivalent to the system the Israeli government is running, which harshly abuses Palestinian children in its custody, while affording Jewish children accused of the same crime every human right and the maximum leniency.

So... what's the punishment for Jewish kids who throw stones - the LEHI Scout medal ?