Gay penguin book shakes up Ill. school

[Peikko 1,575]

I must have been a very abnormal 11 old girl then...while I might have maintained some embarressment infront of adults (my parents didn't discuss any aspect of sex with me), I was certainly interested in the mechanics of sex (or what I understood of it at that age), it's a fascinating subject.

Oh, and before you get some wild ideas, my interest was purely speculative. I had no desire to 'act' upon it then, or while I was a teenager so interest has nothing to do with promiscuity. Yes, I was basing what I was saying on my own experience and would greatly have appreciated my questions being answered honestly while I was young. Luckily I enjoyed reading and purchased 'the joy of sex' or some such educational reading matter before I got was completely lost in ignorance.

My real objection is the 'I raised her correctly' some how means no 11 year old should be interested in anything relating to sex. I did say at all times during this 'discussion' that the interest is/should be age appropriate.

I have never advocated talking to children in explicit terms about different sexual practices, nor discussing it with them when they display no interest in it. I have merely pointed out that they do talk about the differences between males and females and I have already had many questions from my 7 year old about reproduction etc. I would never dream off fobbing him of with some cute nonesense about birds and bees or storks. Any question he does come up with will be dealt with in the same manner, even if he asks about homosexuality.

Edited November 17, 2006 by Purple_Hibiscus

[Sinergy 3]

I must have been a very abnormal 11 old girl then...while I might have maintained some embarressment infront of adults (my parents didn't discuss any aspect of sex with me), I was certainly interested in the mechanics of sex (or what I understood of it at that age), it's a fascinating subject.

Oh, and before you get some wild ideas, my interest was purely speculative. I had no desire to 'act' upon it then, or while I was a teenager so interest has nothing to do with promiscuity. Yes, I was basing what I was saying on my own experience and would greatly have appreciated my questions being answered honestly while I was young. Luckily I enjoyed reading and purchased 'the joy of sex' or some such educational reading matter before I got was completely lost in ignorance.

well just bc your childhood was one way, does not mean every 11 yr old girl will be the same. parents do things there way, and children make decisions on their own. she has her own mind, and may use it. i know at 11 i wasnt interested in boys, sex, or kissing, like my daughter i was interested in soccer and hockey and what snack i was going to eat when i got home from school. again im thankful for that. while she thought it was gross that mommy told her about sex, i know when shes older she will come to me again with pure intent to know more.

[Peikko 1,575]

Sheesh, it wasn't the only thing I was interested in, not even the main thing, just one of many things.

[Sinergy 3]

Sheesh, it wasn't the only thing I was interested in, not even the main thing, just one of many things.

never sd it was, again read what i write, i never sd that

[Peikko 1,575]

Why be thankful then? You posted 'I brought my daughter up the right way'. The whole implication of that is that any other way is wrong. Hence, we are where we are. What on earth does 'pure intent' mean? Why should anything appropriately explained about reproduction be 'gross'?

Edited November 17, 2006 by Purple_Hibiscus

[Sinergy 3]

Why be thankful then? You posted 'I brought my daughter up the right way'. The whole implication of that is that any other way is wrong. Hence, we are where we are. What on earth does 'pure intent' mean? Why should anything appropriately explained about reproduction be 'gross'?

as much as id love to continue this conversation of you knowing my daughter and im a niave mother who didnt raise her correctly in YOUR eyes, i am going on my break, and it at this time is more useful than this conversation is.

ive stated how i feel, ive stated how my daughter is, there is no reason to continue arguing with me about it or my daughter seeing she is my daughter, you know nothing about her or obviously raising 11 yr olds and you know nothing about me or my parenting skills.

[garya505 2]

Also there seem to be a lot of opinions that aren't based on any experience of elementary schools. Go find out how they work before you hand out these absurdities about 'liberal activists' in your schools.

Mind you, your idea of a liberal activist is someone who teaches science as apposed to bible study, so I guess most elementary school teachers are...

It's not an absurdity. One of my coworkers found a book about a gay prince in his kids elementary school library. This isn't just teaching tolerance, this is promoting the gay lifestyle in elementary school.

[DeadPoolX 9]

Why would he say that? I've never loved anyone BECAUSE I wanted to start a family. Most kids understand the concept of love. A better answer would be "they love each other like your mom and I love each other" or some other couple they know if the parents are split, IMO.

I didn't have the first idea what love meant or what it really was when I was a young child -- certainly no idea how to define it. In fact, the concept of love was very foreign to me for many years, even as an adult. Oh sure, I intellectually understood it, but that's about all. So I don't think you can realistically say that all grade school children have an understanding over the concept of love, and would understand this. Some might, but I bet a lot wouldn't.

If school is as you say for social studies then think what that means, the subject includes culture, people, places, environments, individual development & identity. Having a fact based story book about two penguins raising a chick is an excellent way to show young children that families can all be different. If the story book was about a male and female couple raising a chick would there be an uproar from parents whose chilren asked awkward questions about where the egg came from? Much easier to answer that one when you can tell the child the two penguins found the little lost egg and looked after it

Social Studies isn't about culture, people, places, environments, individual development and identity within the required public school system in the United States. Social Studies is what elementary and junior high schools call their history classes. In high school, the name switches over to plain old history. In college, then you get your socio-cultural classes.

If anyone seriously thinks children as young as seven don't discuss sex (or their seven year old version of it) amongst themselves, you are seriously niave. The best thing to do is give honest (age appropriate of course) answers to any of their questions. If you give them some cutesy mumbo jumbo you'll end up with some seriously misinformed youngsters.

I think you're giving far too much credit to very young children and what they understand. I didn't even know there was such a thing as sex until about age ten. Even then, I didn't really understand what it was, and I wasn't interested in it. When I was a young child, all I cared about was playing with my friends, Transformers and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

Maybe kids are different today. I don't know...

[pedroh 21]

well.. Ionescu is talking about the right for parents to teach the kids when or how to explain topics that might be considered 'tabboo' in society.. not if the penguin book is 'wrong' or not.. my folks (doctor and nurse) gave me the sex talk wayy before sex-ed in junior high.. they thought it was the right time, and I do agree that parents are better ah, sources of information for some things.. now, that's different than saying 'oh i dont want my kids to learn about homosexuality because they're gonna become gay'... but I'd prefer i dunno, me, or a doctor explaining my kids about sexuality rather than from friends..

what daniel said is a good question.. if the book ain't talking about explicit sexual stuff.. I don't know why its considered a 'gay book'.. i mean.. there are a lot of animal species that raise their kin among males, not only these 2 penguins.. ###### in the march of the penguins.. the male penguins help too.. so i dont think this book is about 'promoting homosexuality'.. indeed, there's a difference between showing alternative lifestyles and tolerance than promoting a lifestyle.. unfortunately most conservatives consider everything 'promotes' the homosexual lifestyle.. which.. again, I dont see what do homosexuals do to consider it alternative.. yea yea they drink skim organic milk from cows that eat only organic grass, and go to the gym, and whatever stereotype.. but, just having a different sexual preference, IMO is not something 'weird'..

[Ban Hammer 13,335]

Why be thankful then? You posted 'I brought my daughter up the right way'. The whole implication of that is that any other way is wrong. Hence, we are where we are. What on earth does 'pure intent' mean? Why should anything appropriately explained about reproduction be 'gross'?

as much as id love to continue this conversation of you knowing my daughter and im a niave mother who didnt raise her correctly in YOUR eyes, i am going on my break, and it at this time is more useful than this conversation is.

ive stated how i feel, ive stated how my daughter is, there is no reason to continue arguing with me about it or my daughter seeing she is my daughter, you know nothing about her or obviously raising 11 yr olds and you know nothing about me or my parenting skills.

you have my vote on this

[Alex+R 0]

Also there seem to be a lot of opinions that aren't based on any experience of elementary schools. Go find out how they work before you hand out these absurdities about 'liberal activists' in your schools.

Mind you, your idea of a liberal activist is someone who teaches science as apposed to bible study, so I guess most elementary school teachers are...

It's not an absurdity. One of my coworkers found a book about a gay prince in his kids elementary school library. This isn't just teaching tolerance, this is promoting the gay lifestyle in elementary school.

How is it promoting it? What's the difference between promoting it and just putting it out there?

Let alone the fact that you seem to think being gay is a 'lifestyle" which I didn't think anyone could say without smirking anymore....

[Peikko 1,575]

Now try reading what I said. I didn't say what you have done is wrong. I questioned whether it was believable that 11 year olds (in general) don't discuss some version of sex amongst themselves. In general, people who don't believe children of elementary school age discuss sex seem to believe that they have no questions about it which I maintain is niave.

At this point you stated that your daughter doesn't discuss sex (you omitted to add at this time that she doesn't discuss it because you had had a 'discussion' with her about sex and she now believes it's gross.) You did make a value judgement on this however by saying, she doesn't do it because she was brought up correctly.

At the same time you admitted that her friends do talk about sex. Are you making the judgement that this is because they are not brought up correctly? From your posts that is what appears to come across.

I have not made any judgement on your parenting skills, you are the one passing judgements.

[Alex+R 0]

This is the only post I can completely agree with, I think:

I think the book is cute!!

I dont see why explaining "why Steven have 2 moms" is going to be harder than " Why Steven have only mom / or only dad" or "Why Steven have only Grandparents" or "Why Steaven dad's not his real dad" bla bla bla - I think it's just another way of life so if they know it at 3 or 10 it shouldnt be a different.

[Sinergy 3]

Now try reading what I said. I didn't say what you have done is wrong. I questioned whether it was believable that 11 year olds (in general) don't discuss some version of sex amongst themselves. In general, people who don't believe children of elementary school age discuss sex seem to believe that they have no questions about it which I maintain is niave.

At this point you stated that your daughter doesn't discuss sex (you omitted to add at this time that she doesn't discuss it because you had had a 'discussion' with her about sex and she now believes it's gross.) You did make a value judgement on this however by saying, she doesn't do it because she was brought up correctly.

At the same time you admitted that her friends do talk about sex. Are you making the judgement that this is because they are not brought up correctly? From your posts that is what appears to come across.

I have not made any judgement on your parenting skills, you are the one passing judgements.

firstly i had a wonderful break

secondly you did insinuate that it was unbelievable that my daughter didnt discuss sex, bc you stated it as that, and continued to bring it to me

thirdly, im not concearned and never have been concerned with how other ppl raise their kids, im only concerned with how i raise my kid. if her friends talk about sex, good for them, and my daughter walking away, GOOD for her, i wasnt downing any parent who lets their kids talk about sex, i was saying that im glad MY daughter does not, and that does not make me niave or clueless to her life.

and i dont remember passing judgment one time.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Del Pinto said she was halfway through reading it to her daughter "when the zookeeper said the two penguins must be in love."

"That's when I ended the story," she said.

That to me is understandable as a parent. Not because I would have a problem with teaching my kids about homosexuality, but the term 'in love' has a different connotation than saying the two penguins must love each other. It's not so much that it's harmful to the child, but 'in love' is a much more abstract concept than getting a child to understand love. Could anyone here successfully describe to a child what being 'in love' means? Maybe I'm nitpicking but the author - if his intended audience is children ages 4-8, he should be speaking to them in terms that they can understand.