Gay penguin book shakes up Ill. school

[DeadPoolX 9]

Fair enough. I just think "I'll tell you when you're older" would be kind of an awkward response to "why does Steve have two moms?" Although the young kids in my family have never even asked that, come to think of it. They just accept it, as in "Steve has two moms." No reason to make something more weird that the kids themselves are not really that weirded out by.

Here's a question for you: What if little Johnny or Susie asks, "Where do babies come from?" Now, they're both in elementary school...do you tell them the detailed sexual-biological explanation, or do you say, "I'll tell you when you're older?"

[Alex+R 0]

Fair enough. I just think "I'll tell you when you're older" would be kind of an awkward response to "why does Steve have two moms?" Although the young kids in my family have never even asked that, come to think of it. They just accept it, as in "Steve has two moms." No reason to make something more weird that the kids themselves are not really that weirded out by.

Here's a question for you: What if little Johnny or Susie asks, "Where do babies come from?" Now, they're both in elementary school...do you tell them the detailed sexual-biological explanation, or do you say, "I'll tell you when you're older?"

You've just proved my point. You're trying to equate teaching kids about gay couples with teaching kids about SEX. In my opinion, there is a version of "where do babies come from" for ALL ages. But I can see why some parents wouldn't, because of their personal feelings about sex.

However, there is NO reason there is not an answer to why someone has two dads for a kid of any age. It's not about sex. It's about two people loving each other. If I didn't think my kids were ready to hear about people loving each other, then I would think I had done something wrong.

[Ban Hammer 13,644]

Fair enough. I just think "I'll tell you when you're older" would be kind of an awkward response to "why does Steve have two moms?" Although the young kids in my family have never even asked that, come to think of it. They just accept it, as in "Steve has two moms." No reason to make something more weird that the kids themselves are not really that weirded out by.

Here's a question for you: What if little Johnny or Susie asks, "Where do babies come from?" Now, they're both in elementary school...do you tell them the detailed sexual-biological explanation, or do you say, "I'll tell you when you're older?"

You've just proved my point. You're trying to equate teaching kids about gay couples with teaching kids about SEX. In my opinion, there is a version of "where do babies come from" for ALL ages. But I can see why some parents wouldn't, because of their personal feelings about sex.

However, there is NO reason there is not an answer to why someone has two dads for a kid of any age. It's not about sex. It's about two people loving each other. If I didn't think my kids were ready to hear about people loving each other, then I would think I had done something wrong.

on a similar topic, alex, in an ongoing effort to assist rey - can we vote you bi?

[Sinergy 3]

[Alex+R 0]

on a similar topic, alex, in an ongoing effort to assist rey - can we vote you bi?

LOL, yeah, he wishes.

[Ban Hammer 13,644]

on a similar topic, alex, in an ongoing effort to assist rey - can we vote you bi?

LOL, yeah, he wishes.

alex, the tribe has spoken.............

rey, i expect the money wired within 2 business days

[DeadPoolX 9]

You've just proved my point. You're trying to equate teaching kids about gay couples with teaching kids about SEX. In my opinion, there is a version of "where do babies come from" for ALL ages. But I can see why some parents wouldn't, because of their personal feelings about sex.

However, there is NO reason there is not an answer to why someone has two dads for a kid of any age. It's not about sex. It's about two people loving each other. If I didn't think my kids were ready to hear about people loving each other, then I would think I had done something wrong.

Well, it is about sex to some degree. Whether or not being a homosexual is a personal choice or a biological one is moot. I'm not talking about that. The point is that heterosexuals and homosexuals are attracted to each other based, on part, because of the urge to have sexual relations with one another. How do you explain that detail to a elementary school student?

I'm just trying to think about how the line of questioning would go...

Child: "Why does Steve have two mommies?"

Dad: "Because they they want to be together."

Child: "Why?"

Dad: "Because they love each other."

Child: "Why?"

Dad: "..."

Okay, what does our hypothetical Dad say in this hypothetical situation now? He can't very well say "because they want to start a family." The implies having children, and that requires a man and a woman to physically breed. Yes, two men or two women could adopt, but that opens up a whole new can of worms. He'd then have to explain the entire adoption process -- why some kids are adopted, how they get to be there, etc.

I suppose it all depends how much time you have on hand, how much time you wish to spend explaining details, and how much info you think your child will understand and retain. Personally, if my kid started asking me all of this, I'd do the best thing I could think of: Pass it off onto Mom.

[Alex+R 0]

I'm just trying to think about how the line of questioning would go...

Child: "Why does Steve have two mommies?"

Dad: "Because they they want to be together."

Child: "Why?"

Dad: "Because they love each other."

Child: "Why?"

Dad: "..."

Okay, what does our hypothetical Dad say in this hypothetical situation now? He can't very well say "because they want to start a family." The implies having children, and that requires a man and a woman to physically breed. Yes, two men or two women could adopt, but that opens up a whole new can of worms. He'd then have to explain the entire adoption process -- why some kids are adopted, how they get to be there, etc.

I suppose it all depends how much time you have on hand, how much time you wish to spend explaining details, and how much info you think your child will understand and retain. Personally, if my kid started asking me all of this, I'd do the best thing I could think of: Pass it off onto Mom.

Why would he say that? I've never loved anyone BECAUSE I wanted to start a family. Most kids understand the concept of love. A better answer would be "they love each other like your mom and I love each other" or some other couple they know if the parents are split, IMO.

I still am not seeing what this has to do with sex, or why the answer has to be complicated or time consuming.

Well, it is about sex to some degree. Whether or not being a homosexual is a personal choice or a biological one is moot. I'm not talking about that. The point is that heterosexuals and homosexuals are attracted to each other based, on part, because of the urge to have sexual relations with one another. How do you explain that detail to a elementary school student?

Would you explain that to an elementary school student if the couple in question were heterosexual? It's the same thing, isn't it? Why would you need to be explaining that?

Edited November 17, 2006 by Alex+R

[mawilson 2,133]

wonderful, but having a daughter in the 5th grade, i would RATHER have her learn it from me and my husband.

Except you will probably never have that conversation with her.... it's one of those things

that all parents think their children should learn from them but end up learning on the street.

[anya-D 8]

I think the book is cute!!

I dont see why explaining "why Steven have 2 moms" is going to be harder than " Why Steven have only mom / or only dad" or "Why Steven have only Grandparents" or "Why Steaven dad's not his real dad" bla bla bla - I think it's just another way of life so if they know it at 3 or 10 it shouldnt be a different.

[hockeygal 0]

Isn't it just a book based on a true story about 2 penguins raising an "orphaned" egg? I think in order to make the subtle leap to homosexuality, you have to know about homosexuality, and maybe most little kids are just seeing two penguins and an egg.

And are they reading it in class? No. It is available in the library. That isn't "teaching" anything.

[mmb 0]

I have nothing against homosexuals or their raising children (after all, heterosexual couples have brought up some pretty terrible kids, so how bad can homosexual couples do?), but let children be children -- especially in grade school. There's no need to introduce them to heterosexual or homosexual lifestyles at that age. All elemenary school-age kids should be concerned with is adapting to their new scholastic environment, homework, and having fun during recess.

But is it something they have to be "introduced to"? With more books like these there wouldn't be an issue. Most kids will hear/read this story and have zero questions. And if there are questions, if a parent says "some boys want to marry boys" then that usually serves as enough explanation. Why should we shelter kids from some family types but not others? We let them watch sesame street which frequently features segments on kids who live with their grandma, kids who are adopted, etc. These segments teach diversity AND make kids see their families as normal.

With an increasing number of kids being raised by gay couples, there should be more books making them feel normal, too. And teaching other kids to be accepting of that.

Gay couples are not something you only encounter when you're an adult. That's just silly. Nobody has to teach the kids about ####### fisting and strap-ons.

yes they should be introduced to it, at the age of the PARENTS choice and at the TIME of the parents choice. again it shouldnt be up to anyone else to teach our kids about sex, or homosexuality or anything else in that kind of manner. we as parents have certain things we need to talk to our kids about. school is for english, math, social studies and so on, NOT "lets read a book about gay penquins and then teach them about homosexuality" IMO schools are trying to take more and more parenting responsiblity away from the parents and they need to catagorize themselves back to where they are, THE SCHOOL for educational teaching, and lets the parents be parents and let us teach out kids things like sex and homosexuality on OUR decision of timing. especially at elementary school age, let kids be kids.

and if your brother new at 3, thats wonderful, but unless at 3 and asking the questions, it shouldnt be thrown up in the air to just tell them about it.

If school is as you say for social studies then think what that means, the subject includes culture, people, places, environments, individual development & identity. Having a fact based story book about two penguins raising a chick is an excellent way to show young children that families can all be different. If the story book was about a male and female couple raising a chick would there be an uproar from parents whose chilren asked awkward questions about where the egg came from? Much easier to answer that one when you can tell the child the two penguins found the little lost egg and looked after it

[Peikko 1,575]

If anyone seriously thinks children as young as seven don't discuss sex (or their seven year old version of it) amongst themselves, you are seriously niave. The best thing to do is give honest (age appropriate of course) answers to any of their questions. If you give them some cutesy mumbo jumbo you'll end up with some seriously misinformed youngsters.

As for the book, not read it, so can't judge, but seems totally harmless to me.

[garya505 2]

There's a fine line between teaching tolerance of people who are different and promoting an alternative lifestyle. The liberal activists in our public schools are well over than line.

[Jenn! 918]

There's a fine line between teaching tolerance of people who are different and promoting an alternative lifestyle. The liberal activists in our public schools are well over than line.

I get the impression from you though that anything that isn't censorship is promotion. I do think there exists a medium.