J-1 To K-1... Waiver, or not? Given Different Answers...

[Serpent Dragon ZX 6]

For starters, let me introduce myself. My name is Scott, and I have a Thai fiancée. We have been together about 6 months now. She is the most caring, hard working, dedicated, smartest, responsible woman I have ever met. She is accepting of all my life baggage I come with even the fact I have 2 children from a previous relationship that ended bad, and does her best to make sure we are happy as a couple. We have been together every day. We do everything together. She is not afraid to show me anything. The amount she opened up to me is insane compared to what I am used to. She is the single most person I have never been afraid to make a major commitment to. We have been living together for months, and I couldn't be happier. We share everything, and take care of each other in every aspect. I have never been happier with another woman. She sacrifices so much for me. She takes every opportunity to show me how much she cares about me. I am completely blown away by her.

She came here about a year ago, to work as an intern. I live near 2 of the biggest casinos in the world, and they constantly have new interns coming in and out. Korea, and Thailand mostly. They usually come in groups. Usually all people that have gone to school together, and know each other as childhood friends depending on how close knit the groups of students/interns are.

About 2 months ago, she explained about her situation with her being a intern. But I don't think she or myself knew the exact severity of it. She explained to me her program told her she had to go back to Thailand, but she was unsure if she could return, but no matter what she wanted to return at some point to arrange things to be taken care of, including finding good permanent homes for her pets (she is extremely caring about animals, she finds it hard to even kill an insect and would rather let it go outside), figure out what she was going to do with her apartment and belongings, visit family, tie up loose ends as to say. She was scared to death she wouldn't be able to come back, or we might not see each other again. She has told me many times before, she had never been so in love and she needed me with her either here, or in Thailand. She didn't want me to be away from her. She didn't care how, but she wanted me with her. Having met through a friend and his Korean wife who had gone through this, I assumed the process of trying to get her to stay until we got things straight wouldn't be that hard. I have known my friend, and his wife for years now. They are good people. His wife is an excellent judge of character and very smart. She has told me many times before, my fiancée is a good choice... She is worth it. And I fully believe her. Her, and my friend said many times, they would help with anything they could since they had gone through the Green Card process with such ease. They did everything themselves.

So Valentines Day... I proposed in a way. I gave her a promise ring. I would do everything in my power to help her. She was ecstatic. She was so happy. She didn't push me into it, she didn't ask me to do this, but I chose on my own. I told her, that I would marry her if it meant she could get to stay, and later on when the process is done in the next year or 2, we would do everything the right way. She wanted to return to Thailand to do a traditional wedding with her family cause it meant a lot to them. She was happy of this route, but worried it wasn't what I truly wanted in my heart, but I have assured her many times, I am more then 150% sure. I have gotten many responses from people saying she just wants a Green Card and it made me sick they would say such things since they don't know the relationship we have, but she never asked for any such thing. She planned on coming back on a student visa to be with me before all this, or getting another J-1 visa since her program said she can get up to two J-1 visas. She wanted to spend more time with me. She wanted to be sure...

I have known her, and her friends that she came here with for many months now, and they are all very good people. They protect their friends to the fullest, and always put themselves in a hard place for others. Some even look at me like a brother. They were happy, and proud of their friend and myself being together.

Now, it was time for the much needed help of my friend and his wife. They told me of every step I needed to do. But their was a road block we immediately hit. We were looking through her forms, and something we missed... I am not sure how we overlooked this issue, since I seen her visa before... "BEARER IS SUBJECT TO SECTION 212(E) TWO YEAR RULE DOES APPLY. THAILAND INT'L CULTURAL EXCHANGE ORGANIZATION INC." We read it again several times. What is this? My friend's wife said she didn't have on her J-1 before, and never seen it before... I got worried, and so did my fiancée. The confusion started.

After much research, we learned of the J-1 waiver process for a No Objection letter. We contacted the Royal Thai Embassy. Got more info. She contacted her program agent. We tried to get as much info as possible. We even went to town hall, and got a marriage license for a "just in case" we needed. One thing she was worried about, was that she had to return, because in her contract it stated that she must return to finish the program. Basically go back and sign off on some things. It also says some things about fines, and fees will be incurred to her father who signed the papers if she does not return to do so. She even spoke to the program agent on the phone to make sure, it was all just because the program was afraid they would look bad if they were sending people, that took advantage of it to change status and stay, and that the company that requested the interns would decide not to do so anymore. They needed her to return, but told her she could come back on her own accord or student visa. She has taken everything in her contract to a literal sense so far, making sure she abided by everything just in case. It was confusing to both of us since her family had funded her to come anyways (she had to show a bank statement to get into program), but she needed to return anyways. But if she left before she had a new visa, or Green Card, she would not be able to return. It was getting worse, and worse, and more confusing by the day.

We started the jumping through hoops process. Getting documents together, photocopying, faxing, etc... One thing the Thai Embassy said, they had no problem helping us, but wanted the reason why. When they asked about marriage, they said they would help. It seemed like the No Objection Statement would be easy... They also asked if she owed any money to anyone, like the government. And if so, they need proof it was paid back or not have had to pay back. We would have to include it in the package of forms that they required to give the statement in our favor. She had remembered a school loan she had taken for culinary school. We weren't sure if it was why she had the 2 year rule or not but it was money owed to the government we thought. It was a road block, but she was determined. She cleaned her bank account out to pay it off just in case. Now she is debt free to everyone. However getting the document proof showing that she paid it off is taking weeks, and we are starting to get worried since her J-1 visa is up at the end of June. We are just waiting now. But seriously thinking of just sending the waiver request anyways, stating that she owes no money and not saying anything about borrowing money and paying it back. At the same time, we were thinking of applying for a K-1 also. Keeping the marriage license as proof of intent to marry for both the waiver, and K visa. That way by the time she goes back, half the process is complete, and she would only have maybe 3 months to wait before getting the visa to return, if the waiver was approved. We are trying to think of everything possible to get around this hurdle as we are losing patience, and about to just apply for the visa, and waiver anyways.

At the same time of all this, she also knows of 3 friends that are trying to attempt the same thing, or that have done so. And we are both confused even more so about the answers given to us since she has wasted so much money, and time trying to do it the right way. Remember, everyone has 2 year HRR. Says the same thing, from the same program.

Friend 1: They are in the same boat. They decided to do the K-1 also. They applied now, and wanted to wait the remaining processing time when she goes back home. But they had a lawyer do it for them. The lawyer stated they did NOT need a waiver. But she DOES have 2 year HRR in her visa. She has told us to do the visa now, because hers got accepted in like a week... I tried to explain to her the waiver, but she repeatedly told me that their lawyer said they didn't need it. But the USCIS accepting the visa and passing the visa are 2 different things. Is there a loophole I am missing here...? Thai Embassy also told her she didn't need... But it SAYS 2 year HRR on her visa.

Friend 2: My fiancée had a friend over one day, brought her child. I didn't think much of it... Then it hit me... She was speaking Thai to my fiancée. She must have came at a different time also. But she is here now... Maybe she has info. So we asked. She had no clue about the waiver. Said her, and her husband paid a lawyer $5k to do Green Card process. They never did waiver. Something about her lawyer told her to tell her program that she went back already, but stay... Huh...? We both looked at each other and didn't understand what is going on.

Friend 3: She has left concluding her J-1 and program. But returned several months later on another visa besides a student visa. No waiver needed, or done.

Everyone we speak to is telling us we don't need a waiver. But we read otherwise. What is going on...? My fiancée tells me she will do whatever I think is the right way and she trusts me fully, even after all the time and money she and myself wasted.

The predicament we face...

We get married, she has good reason to get waiver and no NOS, but needs to go home anyways. Without green card, she can't return though.

We don't get married, waiver not guaranteed , but we can get K-1 visa for her to return, and then do AOS later IF waiver passed.

We are so confused, and time is running out... We need help, but can't afford a lawyer now. Is there a loophole we are missing? Is there something we are missing...?

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

This post is very confusing and long and the main question is buried deep in there. You have to take care of the 2-year HRR before she can get any K-1 visa or adjust her status. It's possible she won't be able to get it at all. She agreed to this in order to get the chance to work in the US.

Don't listen to friends and other stories. That is just going to confuse you more, especially since you are new to immigration. She needs a waiver or to complete the 2 years, for sure. Not all J-1s have the 2-year HRR. Others do. Your gf's does. It doesn't matter what other people have.

So you started with the No Objection Statement? What is going on with that?

If you marry her you can file paperwork to have her stay here, without going home and getting the K-1 visa. But you still have to deal with the HRR before doing anything.

For friend 3 she got another NONimmigrant visa. She still has the HRR, she has just delayed it.

For the other 2, they sound confused. Don't listen to them, really.

Edited April 13, 2013 by Harpa Timsah

[Serpent Dragon ZX 6]

It was just so very confusing, because it seemed we had to jump through all kinds of hoops, and others didn't. We even checked her friend's visa's, and they have the same thing. We thought for sure we were doing things correctly before, but then we got confused, and held off since we were waiting for the proof that the loan was paid off. But we weren't even sure if it needed to be. We just paid it for a precaution... a $5,350 precaution. I told her I would help with the loan pay-off, but she refused to let me help her. She is quickly learning now, she does need help, and she needs to accept that. But like I said, thinking of just doing the waiver, and not saying anything about the loan, since it didn't even seem they would check, and even if they did... It's paid off. It is possible to do the waiver, and K-1 at the same time, right? Since the waiver is like 6 weeks, and the K-1 is about 5-6 months. It shouldn't be a problem, right?

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

Why would your gf come here for a few months and already rack up a $5k loan??

I guess it's good they check for that... man...

Don't think your situation is the same as others. Ignore them and do what you need to do.

You can start the K-1 process, but you cannot be given a visa until the HRR is taken care of, either by waiver or by spending 2 years at home. Not all waiver requests are granted, btw.

Why are you interested in K-1 anyway?

What is going on with your No Objection statement?

[Serpent Dragon ZX 6]

No, she didn't rack up the loan here. It was from her home. You only apply for what you need for schooling is how she explained it to me. When the Embassy told us they would not issue a NOS until she is clear of owing money to ANY government, she paid the money in full. We are waiting for an official statement/proof that it's paid off to send the Embassy before they issue a NOS. I thought I was pretty clear on that. Sorry. The Thai government is so slow... Even the Embassy told us that too. But I think we are going to send out the waiver this Monday anyways... It seems like being honest to a fault is making this harder then it is. They ask if we owe money, we are just going to state, "No" since we in fact, owe no money now. I was just trying for hopeful answers that there was a loophole in this process I think. The K-1 was for when she had to go back home and then return. Her J-1 expires end of June. Also program ends too. The K-1 was to get her back. Seeing how she needed to go back home to arrange things anyways. Just reading so many experiences, and different things, confusion was bound to happen. I am pretty sure the K-1 is the best, quickest, easiest route. We don't care about the measly $1,500 in fees after she comes back on her K-1. We just want to be together. Its the most important aspect of this whole process to us. I do appreciate your reinforcement that I shouldn't listen to her friends. I think I needed that. I believed from the beginning we were doing the correct steps.

[Karee 4,190]

No, she didn't rack up the loan here. It was from her home. You only apply for what you need for schooling is how she explained it to me. When the Embassy told us they would not issue a NOS until she is clear of owing money to ANY government, she paid the money in full. We are waiting for an official statement/proof that it's paid off to send the Embassy before they issue a NOS. I thought I was pretty clear on that. Sorry. The Thai government is so slow... Even the Embassy told us that too. But I think we are going to send out the waiver this Monday anyways... It seems like being honest to a fault is making this harder then it is. They ask if we owe money, we are just going to state, "No" since we in fact, owe no money now. I was just trying for hopeful answers that there was a loophole in this process I think. The K-1 was for when she had to go back home and then return. Her J-1 expires end of June. Also program ends too. The K-1 was to get her back. Seeing how she needed to go back home to arrange things anyways. Just reading so many experiences, and different things, confusion was bound to happen. I am pretty sure the K-1 is the best, quickest, easiest route. We don't care about the measly $1,500 in fees after she comes back on her K-1. We just want to be together. Its the most important aspect of this whole process to us. I do appreciate your reinforcement that I shouldn't listen to her friends. I think I needed that. I believed from the beginning we were doing the correct steps.

I didn't take the time to read through everything. Don't take this the wrong way, but you can leave it all the stuff about how much you love each other etc. It's really not relevant, and alot of people wont take the time to read it, so you may miss out on some good advice.

Back to topic: I know someone that just went through something very similar to this regarding Thailand. You need to google 212( e ) and start there. Basically this person I know had to do all this from Thailand. She had to go through all the steps up to the visa interview, and then she was asked for the waiver then. She is now here in Florida with her husband. I'll ping her and see how she feels about sending you a PM.

ETA:

This probably needs to be moved to a more appropriate forum.

Edited April 13, 2013 by Karee

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

Okay, so you have until the end of June to chase the waiver down. Then, make the decision at that point on the next step. It would make more sense in your situation to marry and adjust status so she doesn't have to go home and you can be together (after you figure out the waiver). If it's not ready by June, or if she really wants to go home now, then you can seek out a K-1. You can start the K-1 without the waiver, but you need the waiver to get the visa. If you go with Adjusting Status in the US with a concurrent I-130/I-485 filing, you need the waiver before you send out anything.

[Kathryn41 3,205]

Topic has been moved from K-1 forum to the Waivers forum as a more appropriate location for this discussion.

[MiiMO-MeLoN 1]

I didn't take the time to read through everything. Don't take this the wrong way, but you can leave it all the stuff about how much you love each other etc. It's really not relevant, and alot of people wont take the time to read it, so you may miss out on some good advice.

Back to topic: I know someone that just went through something very similar to this regarding Thailand. You need to google 212( e ) and start there. Basically this person I know had to do all this from Thailand. She had to go through all the steps up to the visa interview, and then she was asked for the waiver then. She is now here in Florida with her husband. I'll ping her and see how she feels about sending you a PM.

ETA:

This probably needs to be moved to a more appropriate forum.

Hello, serpent-dragon-zx

In my case, i went back to thailand for 10 months (May 25,2012-March 25,2013) please take a look at my timeline.

I get married in Thailand after i have finished internship program and apply for CR-1 visa. For the J-1 visa waiver i applied after i got the interview date because i thought that i do not need one.

The consular officer gave me the white paper to send him J-1 visa waiver and passport when i receive it.

So your case gonna be the same way as mine. I suggest to apply waiver now (6 months processing time) and k-1 also if you did not get the waiver before interview you just have to change interview date.

Let me know if you have any question, Good luck.

[Serpent Dragon ZX 6]

Thank you. This is exactly what I thought. Applying for both at the same time, since they will both take roughly the same time anyways. We figured we start applying now, and then by the time she gets back to Thailand, we only have a few months left to wait. I want to thank everyone for all the helpful answers, and the help. I DEEPLY appreciate it.