Muslim Women Shockingly Not Grateful for Topless European Ladies Trying To 'Save' Them

[sara..... 371]

is this hypothetical question in relation to a one on one relationship between people, or government involvement and enforcement?

it was a question about relationship between people...mostly not one on one as many of us still live the way of the family unit.... not the government because we all know no matter what country you live in you have to follow the law of the country.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

sadly every country has their own set of laws......that does not make things fair for certain people......and you live in that country so you obey the law even if you disagree with it....and im sorry you feel our way of life is condescending, patronizing, misogynist and incredibly offensive......i personally like being a women and being treated with love and respect and given the choice to live as others do if i want to....i have a couple of sisters that have made the choice to live as other people do i cant say they are too happy they have all the stress and worries that i make the choice not to have but thats their life and its their choice......just as mine is my choice

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1012.html

And if you choose to live that way, then all due respect live that way. I am a big believer in personal freedom. However.. This is from the Sate dept web site. Does not sound like much freedom to me. Maybe WOM will not label it an Islamaphobic website

Saudi authorities do not permit criticism of Islam or the royal family. The government prohibits the public practice of religions other than Islam. Non-Muslims suspected of violating these restrictions have been jailed. Consensual same-sex sexual relations are criminalized in Saudi Arabia. Penalities include fines, jail time, or death. For further information on LGBT travel, please read our Information for LGBT Travelers page.

.

A married woman should be aware that she must have her husband's permission for her and their children to depart Saudi Arabia. This is true even if the woman and/or her children are U.S. citizens and even if her husband does not have Saudi nationality. The U.S. Embassy can intercede with the Saudi government to request exit visas for adult U.S. women, but there is no guarantee that visas will be issued, and obtaining an exit visa without the male guardian’s consent takes many months, if it can be obtained at all. The U.S. Embassy cannot obtain exit visas for the departure of minor children without their father's permission (See Entry/Exit Requirements section above).

Islam is the official religion of the country and pervades all aspects of life in Saudi Arabia. Public display of non-Islamic religious articles such as crosses and Bibles is not permitted. Non-Muslims are forbidden to travel to Makkah (Mecca) and Medina, the cities where two of Islam’s holiest mosques are located. Norms for public behavior in Saudi Arabia are extremely conservative, and the Commission on Promotion of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice (CPVPV), the religious police (referred to colloquially as the Mutawwa or Al-Hay’a), are charged with enforcing these standards on behalf of the CPVPV. Mutawwa are required to carry special identification and usually are accompanied by uniformed police; however, in some cases they have detained persons without police presence. The Muttawa have accosted or arrested foreigners, including U.S. citizens, for improper dress or other alleged infractions, such as consumption of alcohol or association by a female with a male to whom she is not related. Mutawwa who are accompanied by a uniformed police officer have the power to take individuals to police or Mutawwa headquarters. If a uniformed police officer is present, individuals must (if requested) hand over his or her iqama or other identification to the police officer. While most incidents have resulted only in inconvenience or embarrassment, the potential exists for an individual to be arrested, physically harmed or deported. U.S. citizens who are involved in an incident with the Mutawwa should report the incident to the U.S. Embassy in Riyadh or the U.S. Consulates General in Jeddah or Dhahran. In most areas of Saudi Arabia, and particularly in Riyadh and the central part of the Kingdom, women wear a full-length black covering known as an Abaya, and cover their heads. Women who choose not to conform to this dress code face a risk of confrontation by Mutawwa and possible detention/arrest. Men should not wear shorts in public or go without a shirt.

Many areas of life in Saudi Arabia are segregated by sex to ensure that unrelated men and women have no possibility of mingling (a punishable crime). Some Mutawwa try to enforce this normally by asking for proof that a couple is married or related. Women who are arrested forsocializing with a man who is not a relative may be charged with prostitution. Some restaurants, particularly fast-food outlets, have refused to serve women who are not accompanied by a close male relative. In addition, some restaurants or cafes do not have a "family section" in which women are permitted to eat. These restrictions are not always posted. This is more common in Riyadh and the more conservative central Nejd region.

Dancing, playing music, and showing movies in public are forbidden.

Temporary male visitors may drive on their U.S. driver's license. Foreign men employed in Saudi Arabia must obtain a local driver's license from the Department of Traffic Police. Women are not allowed to drive or ride bicycles on public roads. Article no. 42/3 of the Saudi Traffic Law states that a valid foreign or international driver’s license can be used for either a year or until the expiration date, whichever is closer.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

Who said those particular events were Islamophobic? No one. None of those events have anything to do with the completely separate issue of certain FEMEN members showing up at these protests in the Arab/Muslim equivalent of "blackface". That's a crappy thing to do, regardless of anything else that has happened in Egypt, or Tunisia. There was another thread here a few days ago that somehow disappeared, but in it WOM brought up the point of how equally crappy it would be if FEMEN showed up wearing Jewish pe'ot etc, to protest Jewish misogynists. That wouldn't be cool at all. They totally have the right to do that. But it would be crappy. It would also be crappy if Jewish women said hey, it's not cool that FEMEN is being totally anti-semitic with that particular tactic, and everyone just shouted them down and told them to shut up and get over it, they should just be grateful.

You know I was gonna ask. That thread did vaporize and it vaporized immediately after somebody dared me to find a quote I know that they made in that thread. i was thinking maybe I imagined it, but you just confirmed I did not.

OK folks if you want smoking gun this is it.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

plenty of men do cover up. in public anyways, my husband doesn't show anything i don't in public. mileage varies.

Once again I am not talking about moderate Muslims from places like Moroccan culture. how many men in Saudi do you think cover everything but the eyes.

it was a question about relationship between people...mostly not one on one as many of us still live the way of the family unit.... not the government because we all know no matter what country you live in you have to follow the law of the country.

Just because there is a law does not make it just. We had slavery and segregation by law in this country at one time. Does not make it right

[sara..... 371]

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1012.html

And if you choose to live that way, then all due respect live that way. I am a big believer in personal freedom. However.. This is from the Sate dept web site. Does not sound like much freedom to me. Maybe WOM will not label it an Islamaphobic website

Saudi authorities do not permit criticism of Islam or the royal family. The government prohibits the public practice of religions other than Islam. Non-Muslims suspected of violating these restrictions have been jailed. Consensual same-sex sexual relations are criminalized in Saudi Arabia. Penalities include fines, jail time, or death. For further information on LGBT travel, please read our Information for LGBT Travelers page.

.

A married woman should be aware that she must have her husband's permission for her and their children to depart Saudi Arabia. This is true even if the woman and/or her children are U.S. citizens and even if her husband does not have Saudi nationality. The U.S. Embassy can intercede with the Saudi government to request exit visas for adult U.S. women, but there is no guarantee that visas will be issued, and obtaining an exit visa without the male guardian’s consent takes many months, if it can be obtained at all. The U.S. Embassy cannot obtain exit visas for the departure of minor children without their father's permission (See Entry/Exit Requirements section above).

Islam is the official religion of the country and pervades all aspects of life in Saudi Arabia. Public display of non-Islamic religious articles such as crosses and Bibles is not permitted. Non-Muslims are forbidden to travel to Makkah (Mecca) and Medina, the cities where two of Islam’s holiest mosques are located. Norms for public behavior in Saudi Arabia are extremely conservative, and the Commission on Promotion of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice (CPVPV), the religious police (referred to colloquially as the Mutawwa or Al-Hay’a), are charged with enforcing these standards on behalf of the CPVPV. Mutawwa are required to carry special identification and usually are accompanied by uniformed police; however, in some cases they have detained persons without police presence. The Muttawa have accosted or arrested foreigners, including U.S. citizens, for improper dress or other alleged infractions, such as consumption of alcohol or association by a female with a male to whom she is not related. Mutawwa who are accompanied by a uniformed police officer have the power to take individuals to police or Mutawwa headquarters. If a uniformed police officer is present, individuals must (if requested) hand over his or her iqama or other identification to the police officer. While most incidents have resulted only in inconvenience or embarrassment, the potential exists for an individual to be arrested, physically harmed or deported. U.S. citizens who are involved in an incident with the Mutawwa should report the incident to the U.S. Embassy in Riyadh or the U.S. Consulates General in Jeddah or Dhahran. In most areas of Saudi Arabia, and particularly in Riyadh and the central part of the Kingdom, women wear a full-length black covering known as an Abaya, and cover their heads. Women who choose not to conform to this dress code face a risk of confrontation by Mutawwa and possible detention/arrest. Men should not wear shorts in public or go without a shirt.

Many areas of life in Saudi Arabia are segregated by sex to ensure that unrelated men and women have no possibility of mingling (a punishable crime). Some Mutawwa try to enforce this normally by asking for proof that a couple is married or related. Women who are arrested forsocializing with a man who is not a relative may be charged with prostitution. Some restaurants, particularly fast-food outlets, have refused to serve women who are not accompanied by a close male relative. In addition, some restaurants or cafes do not have a "family section" in which women are permitted to eat. These restrictions are not always posted. This is more common in Riyadh and the more conservative central Nejd region.

Dancing, playing music, and showing movies in public are forbidden.

Temporary male visitors may drive on their U.S. driver's license. Foreign men employed in Saudi Arabia must obtain a local driver's license from the Department of Traffic Police. Women are not allowed to drive or ride bicycles on public roads. Article no. 42/3 of the Saudi Traffic Law states that a valid foreign or international driver’s license can be used for either a year or until the expiration date, whichever is closer.

im probably going to get fried for this but its no secrete......the government of saudi is not even based on Islam because Islam prohibits kings.....so if a country is going to implement law according to Islam they need to do it completely meaning no royal family.........

[sandinista! 1,816]

You know I was gonna ask. That thread did vaporize and it vaporized immediately after somebody dared me to find a quote I know that they made in that thread. i was thinking maybe I imagined it, but you just confirmed I did not.

OK folks if you want smoking gun this is it.

are you suggesting it was me who caused that? cause i didn't

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

i agree that places like Afghanistan and a few others the women are in deed in danger and there are very few choices that they have if they want to live... as for men not covering...they have to cover from their knees to their waist....anything of interest to a women is covered .......

most men cover more than that but thats what is allowed....according to our teachings

You paint a very good picture of why and what it is to be a Muslim woman in another country. You are correct. Places like Afghanistan and Saudi are the places I am speaking of. I get called an Islamaphobe when i point out the oppression in those places.

I would love to hear more about the day to day life in non-radical countries.

are you suggesting it was me who caused that? cause i didn't

Oh no I did not mean that. I am just meant you noticed it also..

Edited April 13, 2013 by The Nature Boy

[sandinista! 1,816]

it was a question about relationship between people...mostly not one on one as many of us still live the way of the family unit.... not the government because we all know no matter what country you live in you have to follow the law of the country.

what i'm saying is in families, in marriages, etc. people have their own arrangements, that as long as both parties are in agreement with, and are not overtly abusive or harmful, are no one's business but their own. if you are talking about an arrangement introduced by and enforced by a government, well that's just a no.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

im probably going to get fried for this but its no secrete......the government of saudi is not even based on Islam because Islam prohibits kings.....so if a country is going to implement law according to Islam they need to do it completely meaning no royal family.........

Get fired...??

So are you saying the Saudi radical stuff is based on a perversion of Islam ? Do you mind me asking which country you are from ?

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

are you suggesting it was me who caused that? cause i didn't

It was invisoed because the OP posted an article with a link to bumpy woman bits.

[sara..... 371]

what i'm saying is in families, in marriages, etc. people have their own arrangements, that as long as both parties are in agreement with, and are not overtly abusive or harmful, are no one's business but their own. if you are talking about an arrangement introduced by and enforced by a government, well that's just a no.

i was not talking about the government........

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

what i'm saying is in families, in marriages, etc. people have their own arrangements, that as long as both parties are in agreement with, and are not overtly abusive or harmful, are no one's business but their own. if you are talking about an arrangement introduced by and enforced by a government, well that's just a no.

AMEN!

That is what i have been trying to get to all along.

It was invisoed because the OP posted an article with a link to bumpy woman bits.

Ok let me put away the tinfoil hat.... I knew the psot I was looking for was in that thread.

[sandinista! 1,816]

It was invisoed because the OP posted an article with a link to bumpy woman bits.

oh for heaven's sake...

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

oh for heaven's sake...

Yep. Two new mod rules in the last 72 hours or so:

1) No link to anything that contains pictures of any naughty bits.

2) When quoting a news article in the original post, the thread title must match the article title exactly.

[sara..... 371]

Get fired...??

So are you saying the Saudi radical stuff is based on a perversion of Islam ? Do you mind me asking which country you are from ?

Im saying that it is a Islamic Illegal government based on Kings deciding to implement Islamic law.....my own opinion of that is how can you enforce a law that they are breaking just by being the royal family........i would have more respect for the law in Saudi if it was followed to the letter of Islam......is kind of like telling your kids dont do drugs or drink and your doing it in front of them.....

fried meaning blasted from other Muslims

i was born in Guatemala adopted as a new born and brought to the USA by my parents......