Muslim Women Shockingly Not Grateful for Topless European Ladies Trying To 'Save' Them

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

The toplessness was not really "approved of" by most Muslim women, but what really offended them was the use of Muslim religious symbols and religious items, articles of clothing worn by Muslims for religious reasons such as the niqab and the hijab, and even using "Muslim" body hair like beards (and don't forget the "unibrow") as yet more props to ridicule with their protest.

That's just it. In a free society like America, sometimes you approve and sometimes you don't.. It their right to protest however they want.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

More comments from Muslim women - and note that even the woman who is supposedly at the very center of FEMEN's protests, Amina Tyler, says she was offended by the abuse of Muslim symbols and the tactics of insulting all Muslims:

You failed to highlight this part

Her act of protest went over poorly in Tunisia, where ultraconservative Islamists have gained ground since the revolution that ousted autocratic President Zine el Abidine ben Ali. Long seen as a regional leader in gender equality, Tunisia has since become a battleground for feminists, some of whom were seen as tainted because of their ties to the Ben Ali government. Since he was toppled, feminists have struggled to regain their political footing.

Outraged by the topless photo, a Salafi cleric who heads a commission on vice reportedly said Tyler should be stoned to death. Hackers defaced the Femen Tunisia page on Facebook, denouncing it as "debauchery." Tyler later told a French television crew she wanted to leave the country.

Just read the posts. Muslim women are speaking to you in this very thread, and I'm also linking articles and comments written by Muslim women. (There were some more in the original thread which I can retrieve if you want.)

Ok we are talking about Saudi women and countries in which radical Islam oppresses women. Stop trying to make this about all of Islam cause its not

[sara..... 371]

You failed to highlight this part

Her act of protest went over poorly in Tunisia, where ultraconservative Islamists have gained ground since the revolution that ousted autocratic President Zine el Abidine ben Ali. Long seen as a regional leader in gender equality, Tunisia has since become a battleground for feminists, some of whom were seen as tainted because of their ties to the Ben Ali government. Since he was toppled, feminists have struggled to regain their political footing.

Outraged by the topless photo, a Salafi cleric who heads a commission on vice reportedly said Tyler should be stoned to death. Hackers defaced the Femen Tunisia page on Facebook, denouncing it as "debauchery." Tyler later told a French television crew she wanted to leave the country.

Ok we are talking about Saudi women and countries in which radical Islam oppresses women. Stop trying to make this about all of Islam cause its not

I have a question and there is no right or wrong answer......what if you lived your life..and...never had to work.....didnt have to be bothered with driving because there was always a driver for you......never had to shop for yourself unless you wanted to......where everything you could ever want was given to you or done for you...if your s/o felt it was her job to always keep a smile on your face.......if your s/o messed up and you refused all things she requested so in turn everyone in the home also refused to cook for her or clean for her or talk to her until she fixed what ever it was that was wrong....and the only thing asked of u was to make sure that your body and hair was covered when you left the home so that women would not lust after you........would u say your repressed? or would u say your a king?

[BaBamSam 239]

I have a question and there is no right or wrong answer......what if you lived your life..and...never had to work.....didnt have to be bothered with driving because there was always a driver for you......never had to shop for yourself unless you wanted to......where everything you could ever want was given to you or done for you...if your s/o felt it was her job to always keep a smile on your face.......if your s/o messed up and you refused all things she requested so in turn everyone in the home also refused to cook for her or clean for her or talk to her until she fixed what ever it was that was wrong....and the only thing asked of u was to make sure that your body and hair was covered when you left the home so that women would not lust after you........would u say your repressed? or would u say your a king?

This "hypothetical question" is ridiculous.

I would say they are oppressed because they would not be given a choice. I also refuse to believe that the person being lusted after is responsible for the lusting. Maybe the men/women doing the lusting should be held accountable for their own emotions and reactions?

That said, I come from the West and I try to refrain from imposing Western beliefs on other cultures. Doesn't mean I can't have an opinion, but I do find it dangerous and potentially imperialistic when those of us from the West try to interfere. It's a tough grey area IMO.

[sara..... 371]

This "hypothetical question" is ridiculous.

I would say they are oppressed because they would not be given a choice. I also refuse to believe that the person being lusted after is responsible for the lusting. Maybe the men/women doing the lusting should be held accountable for their own emotions and reactions?

That said, I come from the West and I try to refrain from imposing Western beliefs on other cultures. Doesn't mean I can't have an opinion, but I do find it dangerous and potentially imperialistic when those of us from the West try to interfere. It's a tough grey area IMO.

but every bit of it is a choice.......and the women are not blamed for a man lusting after her she is instead trying to safe her self from it......it is a form of self protection......if a women wants to work she can work, if she wants to shop she can shop, if she does not want a servant she does not have to have a servant.....the laws of the country are stopping her from driving.....and it is more because women should be given a stress free life.....maybe i dont agree with the law about not driving but everything else that i stated is a choice......and as for ridiculous i have just stated how my life is.....i find it very comfortable....i also come from the west

Edited April 13, 2013 by sara.....

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

but every bit of it is a choice...

No, it isn't. I posted the account of a Saudi woman that chose to get behind the wheel. Not because she had to but because she wanted to. She ended up in jail and her father had to plead with the authorities that she be released. He had to pledge in return that she would never, ever get behind a wheel again. That's not choice. And it matters none whether there's a driver that will take you anywhere you want to go.

[BaBamSam 239]

but every bit of it is a choice.......and the women are not blamed for a man lusting after her she is instead trying to safe her self from it......it is a form of self protection......if a women wants to work she can work, if she wants to shop she can shop, if she does not want a servant she does not have to have a servant.....the laws of the country are stopping her from driving.....and it is more because women should be given a stress free life.....maybe i dont agree with the law about not driving but everything else that i stated is a choice......and as for ridiculous i have just stated how my life is.....i find it very comfortable....i also come from the west

But it's not really a choice - not if you are culturally oppressed to have the choice taken away. Not to mention the legalities of the "choices" you are claiming exist, particularly with "religious police" in Saudi Arabia.

I disagree 120% on the "women should be given a stress free life" sentiment as I find it condescending, patronizing, misogynist and incredibly offensive.

Again, I am just stating my opinion on the matter. I am not part of the culture we are discussing and I feel that it is not appropriate for me to assert my Western beliefs, even if I believe them right, on a culture that I don't fully understand nor have any personal experience with.

[sara..... 371]

No, it isn't. I posted the account of a Saudi woman that chose to get behind the wheel. Not because she had to but because she wanted to. She ended up in jail and her father had to plead with the authorities that she be released. He had to pledge in return that she would never, ever get behind a wheel again. That's not choice. And it matters none whether there's a driver that will take you anywhere you want to go.

i did state that it was the law of that country and that even if i disagreed with it i did understand the reason for it.......ever drove in a country where there are men drivers filled with road rage? from what i can see in the countries i have lived in that most women do not drive in thats the case.....i personally dont drive because of my own personal choice i have been encouraged by my family to learn just not something i am interested in doing.

[sara..... 371]

But it's not really a choice - not if you are culturally oppressed to have the choice taken away. Not to mention the legalities of the "choices" you are claiming exist, particularly with "religious police" in Saudi Arabia.

I disagree 120% on the "women should be given a stress free life" sentiment as I find it condescending, patronizing, misogynist and incredibly offensive.

Again, I am just stating my opinion on the matter. I am not part of the culture we are discussing and I feel that it is not appropriate for me to assert my Western beliefs, even if I believe them right, on a culture that I don't fully understand nor have any personal experience with.

sadly every country has their own set of laws......that does not make things fair for certain people......and you live in that country so you obey the law even if you disagree with it....and im sorry you feel our way of life is condescending, patronizing, misogynist and incredibly offensive......i personally like being a women and being treated with love and respect and given the choice to live as others do if i want to....i have a couple of sisters that have made the choice to live as other people do i cant say they are too happy they have all the stress and worries that i make the choice not to have but thats their life and its their choice......just as mine is my choice

Edited April 13, 2013 by sara.....

[sandinista! 1,816]

Well, Amina Tyler did receive death threats and those most certainly did come from somewhere inside the circle of radical religious nuts. An Egypt FEMEN activist also received death threats, was kidnapped and subsequently sought asylum in Sweden. I think I've read that she was since expelled from her country. By the Islamic government of Egypt. That's not exactly Islamophobia. That's what's happening. See, the freedom to express themselves doesn't exist in most - if not all - of them places. Which is all I am saying.

Who said those particular events were Islamophobic? No one. None of those events have anything to do with the completely separate issue of certain FEMEN members showing up at these protests in the Arab/Muslim equivalent of "blackface". That's a crappy thing to do, regardless of anything else that has happened in Egypt, or Tunisia. There was another thread here a few days ago that somehow disappeared, but in it WOM brought up the point of how equally crappy it would be if FEMEN showed up wearing Jewish pe'ot etc, to protest Jewish misogynists. That wouldn't be cool at all. They totally have the right to do that. But it would be crappy. It would also be crappy if Jewish women said hey, it's not cool that FEMEN is being totally anti-semitic with that particular tactic, and everyone just shouted them down and told them to shut up and get over it, they should just be grateful.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

I have a question and there is no right or wrong answer......what if you lived your life..and...never had to work.....didnt have to be bothered with driving because there was always a driver for you......never had to shop for yourself unless you wanted to......where everything you could ever want was given to you or done for you...if your s/o felt it was her job to always keep a smile on your face.......if your s/o messed up and you refused all things she requested so in turn everyone in the home also refused to cook for her or clean for her or talk to her until she fixed what ever it was that was wrong....and the only thing asked of u was to make sure that your body and hair was covered when you left the home so that women would not lust after you........would u say your repressed? or would u say your a king?

Well some of that describes my relationship with my wife. She does not drive,work. That is where it ends. Honestly I may feel like a king but I am sure the woman may not.

Let's be clear. I am not talking about moderate normal Islamic countries, and to be far women in the countries run by radicals have a lot more right restrictions than just being asked to cover up. Why don't the men cover up.

I do appreciate your calm level ability to discuss this issue and you make some valid points. Who knows we both may learn something

Edited April 13, 2013 by The Nature Boy

[sandinista! 1,816]

plenty of men do cover up. in public anyways, my husband doesn't show anything i don't in public. mileage varies.

[sara..... 371]

Well some of that describes my relationship with my wife. She does not drive,work. That is where it ends. Honestly I may feel like a king but I am sure the woman may not.

Let's be clear. I am not talking about moderate normal Islamic countries, and to be far women in the countries run by radicals have a lot more right restrictions than just being asked to cover up. Why don't the men cover up.

I do appreciate your calm level ability to discuss this issue and you make some valid points. Who knows we both may learn something

i agree that places like Afghanistan and a few others the women are in deed in danger and there are very few choices that they have if they want to live... as for men not covering...they have to cover from their knees to their waist....anything of interest to a women is covered .......

most men cover more than that but thats what is allowed....according to our teachings

Edited April 13, 2013 by sara.....

[sandinista! 1,816]

I have a question and there is no right or wrong answer......what if you lived your life..and...never had to work.....didnt have to be bothered with driving because there was always a driver for you......never had to shop for yourself unless you wanted to......where everything you could ever want was given to you or done for you...if your s/o felt it was her job to always keep a smile on your face.......if your s/o messed up and you refused all things she requested so in turn everyone in the home also refused to cook for her or clean for her or talk to her until she fixed what ever it was that was wrong....and the only thing asked of u was to make sure that your body and hair was covered when you left the home so that women would not lust after you........would u say your repressed? or would u say your a king?

is this hypothetical question in relation to a one on one relationship between people, or government involvement and enforcement?

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I wish to state that I am very greatful for topless European ladies. For the record. I hope they continue to expose the need for rights for women, particularly the right to go topless like men can.