Muslim Women Shockingly Not Grateful for Topless European Ladies Trying To 'Save' Them

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Right. So there's really nothing wrong with that. Except, of course, on VJ. There you can't link to sources if, God forbid, there's "areola or more".

I posted my opinion on that.

But it seems no amount of links to topless protests are enough for some of you !!! You're never satisfied !!!!

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

who are we to say they are oppressed? I know a lot of women that are saudi....the husband is allowed to look like he is boss out side the home but you have no idea how much he is NOT the boss in the home

well you have a good point. I have some experience with that issue.

This is such an important part of the discussion that many people in the West do not understand. Muslim women themselves are the ones to decide what they feel is repression or unfair in their societies. And most Muslim women don't see the so-called "right" to prance around naked or half-naked in public as "liberation."

I think most women don't want to prance around half naked. However do you really maintain than women in countries like Saudi have the right to determine what the want to do or not do

They would be amazed at the gorgeous clothes and impeccable hair and makeup under the abaya.

I think some Western men have developed a kind of fetish/fantasy over women in hijab because they're so used to seeing so much of a woman's body exposed all the time - it kind of throws them off base when they can't instantly assess a woman by her physical attributes. This negative and even antagonistic reaction to women wearing hijab makes it almost seem like some men feel their rights to perv on women are being repressed.

Do you think women being given beating for being alone with a male in a private place is not oppression...

Right. So there's really nothing wrong with that. Except, of course, on VJ. There you can't link to sources if, God forbid, there's "areola or more".

Poor Mods.. they are catching heck lately aren't they .. I sense a revolution brewing... J/k

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I posted my opinion on that.

But it seems no amount of links to topless protests are enough for some of you !!! You're never satisfied !!!!

I don't really care if they protest topless or not. To me, it's freedom of expression. I don't know why it's such a big deal, really.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

I posted my opinion on that.

But it seems no amount of links to topless protests are enough for some of you !!! You're never satisfied !!!!

We just agreed. See it can happen. No amount of topless protest is too much

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Poor Mods.. they are catching heck lately aren't they .. I sense a revolution brewing... J/k

No revolution. It's just silly to be so freaking uptight that you feel that censoring mainstream news is required. Makes no sense. Kinda childish, really.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

I think most women don't want to prance around half naked. However do you really maintain than women in countries like Saudi have the right to determine what the want to do or not do

Do you think women being given beating for being alone with a male in a private place is not oppression...

You need to begin by listening to Saudi women about what they think, and what they want.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

You need to begin by listening to Saudi women about what they think, and what they want.

Ok lI am all ears....

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

You need to begin by listening to Saudi women about what they think, and what they want.

But how do you do that if they are not afforded a voice in the first place?

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

I don't really care if they protest topless or not. To me, it's freedom of expression. I don't know why it's such a big deal, really.

The toplessness was not really "approved of" by most Muslim women, but what really offended them was the use of Muslim religious symbols and religious items, articles of clothing worn by Muslims for religious reasons such as the niqab and the hijab, and even using "Muslim" body hair like beards (and don't forget the "unibrow") as yet more props to ridicule with their protest.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

The toplessness was not really "approved of" by most Muslim women, but what really offended them was the use of Muslim religious symbols and religious items, articles of clothing worn by Muslims for religious reasons such as the niqab and the hijab, and even using "Muslim" body hair like beards (and don't forget the "unibrow") as yet more props to ridicule with their protest.

Again, FEMEN does not require the approval of Muslim women. Freedom of expression is not always pleasant and one does not always agree with what another expresses or how. But the other should still be free to express themselves in the way they see fit. FEMEN is raging against religion in general. It's not like they only rage against Islam.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

But how do you do that if they are not afforded a voice in the first place?

They have voices. They have protests, they write articles, they have webpages and Twitter feeds, many of them are educated and many of them speak English. You just have to look for them in their media - because unfortunately, Western publications overwhelmingly ignore this stuff in favor of giving space to screaming Western white women who will take their clothes off while demonizing Islam.

Again, FEMEN does not require the approval of Muslim women. Freedom of expression is not always pleasant and one does not always agree with what another expresses or how. But the other should still be free to express themselves in the way they see fit. FEMEN is raging against religion in general. It's not like they only rage against Islam.

FEMEN can do whatever they want - EXCEPT claim that they speak FOR Muslim women - because they are not Muslim women. That's the point - if people want to know what Muslim women think, they need to listen to Muslim women.

But nobody wants to listen, unless we denounce our religion

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Did a Muslim woman draw this cartoon ?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

They have voices. They have protests, they write articles, they have webpages and Twitter feeds, many of them are educated and many of them speak English. You just have to look for them in their media - because unfortunately, Western publications overwhelmingly ignore this stuff in favor of giving space to screaming Western white women who will take their clothes off while demonizing Islam.

They will have voices when what they say matters to those running the country they live in. When they become part of running the country. When they become part of the franchise. That is still years, possibly decades, away. Here, too, by the way.

FEMEN can do whatever they want - EXCEPT claim that they speak FOR Muslim women - because they are not Muslim women. That's the point - if people want to know what Muslim women think, they need to listen to Muslim women.

But nobody wants to listen, unless we denounce our religion

While I am not fond of religion in general, I have never denounced your religion. Where exactly is FEMEN claiming to speak for Muslim women? They speak out for gender equality and they do criticize certain parts of the world more than others because there, gender equality simply doesn't exist. That is a point that these women are free to make in any way they see fit. Even if they are wrong, they still should be free to stage their protests. That's what freedom is.

Edited April 13, 2013 by Mr. Big Dog

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

More comments from Muslim women - and note that even the woman who is supposedly at the very center of FEMEN's protests, Amina Tyler, says she was offended by the abuse of Muslim symbols and the tactics of insulting all Muslims:

Muslim women fire back at the 'Topless Jihad'

When topless protesters decided to take aim at Islamism, some Muslim women fired back.

“Nudity DOES NOT liberate me -- and I DO NOT need saving,” one wrote on a sign, held up to the camera in an image posted on Twitter.

A furious debate broke out in the blogosphere after radical feminist group Femen launched its “Topless Jihad” last week for Amina Tyler, a Tunisian woman who faced threats after sharing a topless photo of herself online. Tyler, 19, had written “My body is mine, not somebody's honor" across her chest in Arabic in solidarity with Femen, a Kiev, Ukraine-based group known for topless protests.

Her act of protest went over poorly in Tunisia, where ultraconservative Islamists have gained ground since the revolution that ousted autocratic President Zine el Abidine ben Ali. Long seen as a regional leader in gender equality, Tunisia has since become a battleground for feminists, some of whom were seen as tainted because of their ties to the Ben Ali government. Since he was toppled, feminists have struggled to regain their political footing.

Outraged by the topless photo, a Salafi cleric who heads a commission on vice reportedly said Tyler should be stoned to death. Hackers defaced the Femen Tunisia page on Facebook, denouncing it as "debauchery." Tyler later told a French television crew she wanted to leave the country.

Femen called for topless protests at Tunisian embassies and mosques around the world to “demand freedom for Amina,” billing her act as “the beginning of a global war between a woman and an Islamist theocracy.” Bare-breasted demonstrators turned out from Stockholm to San Francisco and set a black Muslim flag alight in front of a Paris mosque.

"Muslim men shroud their women in black sacks of submissiveness and fear," Femen leader Inna Shevchenko wrote on the Huffington Post UK. "Topless protests are the battle flags of women's resistance, a symbol of a woman's acquisition of rights over her own body!"

But many Muslim women -- including women who count themselves as feminists -- were turned off by the tactics and slogans of the self-described “naked shock troops of feminism.”

“Some women bared their breasts in a country where it is completely all right to bare your breasts, then they burned the symbolic flag of a religious minority, in front of the mosque of that religious minority. And then some lauded this as ‘revolutionary,’ ” British writer and photographer Sabiha Mahmoud said in an open letter to Femen. The black flag that Femen activists burned was not an exclusively extremist symbol, she wrote; it was “a generic one used by many Muslims.”

Thousands of irritated women joined the Facebook group “Muslim Women Against Femen” and declared their own “Muslimah Pride Day,” uploading photos of themselves with signs reading “Freedom of Choice” and “I can support women’s rights with my clothes on.” Muslim women could fight for themselves, they declared, behind the hijab or not.

Even the backlash became divided. “This is not a nudity vs. hijab debate,” stated one post on Facebook. “Every woman has their own way of reclaiming their bodies against the patriarchy.”

Femen was unconvinced by the outcry. "They write on their posters that they don't need liberation, but in their eyes it's written 'help me,’ ” Shevchenko told the Huffington Post UK.

As the debate raged online, it was unclear what had happened to the Tunisian woman whose bared breasts set off such an uproar. In her television interview last week, Tyler said she did not regret taking the photos but was against burning the black flag as the Femen activists had done.

"Everyone will think I encouraged them to do that," she told the French channel. "They insulted all Muslims. It's not acceptable."

Femen said Tyler was clearly cut off from communication and “not aware of how it really happened” during the protests. The young woman is “still not free,” it reiterated Friday on Facebook.

http://www.latimes.com/news/world/worldnow/la-fg-wn-muslim-topless-protest-femen-20130412,0,7007622.story