Brutality in Saudi

[sandinista! 1,816]

That's debatable. I know that one can have one's gender surgically and medically changed but one is born with a gender. One is also born with a blood type. And one is born with an ethnicity. One is not born, however, with a religion. Big difference between these things.

You're talking about sex and it is different than gender.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

You're talking about sex and it is different than gender.

fine, forget about the sex for a moment. One is born either a male or a female. masculine or feminine, if you prefer. either way, you don't get to choose.

Edited April 12, 2013 by Mr. Big Dog

[himher 634]

Not necessarily. A high incarceration rate is not indicative of a dictatorship just as a low incarceration rate is not indicative of a democracy.

I did note a balance of powers between the ruling family and religious leadership. You missed that. I also used the word "oppressive dictatorship" and you also missed that.

At least stay on track with the facts shared with you and do not reword what I say so that the facts can fit into your teeny little box. There have in fact been good monarchy and bad monarchy based governments since the beginning of recorded time.

I do realize that you (from 10 time zones away from the place that you have convinced yourself that you know all about perhaps from your magic TV) otherwise are an expert on the subject of life there however I am telling you that life on the ground over there is not at all the way that you describe it.

With that in mind, do you to carry on.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I did note a balance of powers between the ruling family and religious leadership. You missed that. I also used the word "oppressive dictatorship" and you also missed that.

At least stay on track with the facts shared with you and do not reword what I say so that the facts can fit into your teeny little box. There have in fact been good monarchy and bad monarchy based governments since the beginning of recorded time.

I do realize that you (from 10 time zones away from the place that you have convinced yourself that you know all about perhaps from your magic TV) otherwise are an expert on the subject of life there however I am telling you that life on the ground over there is not at all the way that you describe it.

With that in mind, do you to carry on.

What did I describe? A place where people are not in charge of their destiny, where people have limited, if any, influence on the rules and laws around which the country is organized and a place where women have no actual voice. That's reality, isn't it? Or are you suggesting that Saudi Arabia is somehow a democracy where women have a voice in the political process?

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

What did I describe? A place where people are not in charge of their destiny, where people have limited, if any, influence on the rules and laws around which the country is organized and a place where women have no actual voice. That's reality, isn't it? Or are you suggesting that Saudi Arabia is somehow a democracy where women have a voice in the political process?

http://world.time.com/2013/03/27/in-saudi-arabia-womens-voices-are-starting-to-be-heard/

Not perfect, but progress none the less.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

http://world.time.com/2013/03/27/in-saudi-arabia-womens-voices-are-starting-to-be-heard/

Not perfect, but progress none the less.

I'm not denying that there's progress. I'm also not denying that people can live safe and secure lives in that country. But Saudi Arabia is not a country where the people have any real influence on the political process and it certainly isn't a country where women enjoy equal participation and rights.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

I'm not denying that there's progress. I'm also not denying that people can live safe and secure lives in that country. But Saudi Arabia is not a country where the people have any real influence on the political process and it certainly isn't a country where women enjoy equal participation and rights.

But with progress comes change, we all know the SA is a different place to live, no doubt. But as folks have posted, the climate is changing, maybe for the better. That's all I am saying.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

But with progress comes change, we all know the SA is a different place to live, no doubt. But as folks have posted, the climate is changing, maybe for the better. That's all I am saying.

Well, one can always hope. I just don't buy into the idea that Saudi Arabia is what it's people chose it to be. What it is is what was chosen for them. Maybe some day they'll be able to choose themselves - women included.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

Well, one can always hope. I just don't buy into the idea that Saudi Arabia is what it's people chose it to be. What it is is what was chosen for them. Maybe some day they'll be able to choose themselves - women included.

It can happen, look at our history. Women couldn't vote here either, they were paid less, and generally treated like their words didn't matter. But times changed, people evolved. Also take into account we have a different mindset than they do over there. When they want change bad enough. the revolution will come.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

It can happen, look at our history. Women couldn't vote here either, they were paid less, and generally treated like their words didn't matter. But times changed, people evolved. Also take into account we have a different mindset than they do over there. When they want change bad enough. the revolution will come.

Sure it can happen. Even without a revolution. Think Morocco has demonstrated that it can be done, that it can be done peacefully and that it can be successful. It probably ain't perfect there either but neither is it here or anywhere else, for that matter. Just remember that I read some encouraging accounts a few years back on progress made in that country. Good stuff.

[himher 634]

What did I describe? A place where people are not in charge of their destiny, where people have limited, if any, influence on the rules and laws around which the country is organized and a place where women have no actual voice. That's reality, isn't it? Or are you suggesting that Saudi Arabia is somehow a democracy where women have a voice in the political process?

LOL as if you are in charge of your own destiny? I withdraw the question.

So: Back to topic. A place where women have their own man-free hotels? Their own universities? Where women outnumber men in university enrollment? No. You did not describe this place at all. Is it perfect? No. It is not 'oppressive' to the people who live there either.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

You maintain that the brutality and oppression in Saudi is not connected to fundamentalist Islam .

Still waiting for you to produce the quote where you claim I said this.

Still maintain women in Saudi are not oppressed.

Still waiting for you to produce the quote where you claim I said this.

I called said you were antisemitic because so much of what you post bashes Isreal..

That’s not the definition of antisemitic, is it ?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

LOL as if you are in charge of your own destiny? I withdraw the question.

So: Back to topic. A place where women have their own man-free hotels? Their own universities? Where women outnumber men in university enrollment? No. You did not describe this place at all. Is it perfect? No. It is not 'oppressive' to the people who live there either.

Not oppressive? Adult women must have a male guardian, can't drive, can't freely participate in the labor market, have no voice politically. That's not oppressive? Wow.

And yes, I am in charge of my destiny. Who would be if not me?

[decocker 7,198]

Which Christian government has sponsored death squads in the last century to kill a blasphemer?

to break it down like a proper hippie, which people have unjustly sought and killed other people for being different or in the way?

Edited April 12, 2013 by val erie

[himher 634]

Well, one can always hope. I just don't buy into the idea that Saudi Arabia is what it's people chose it to be. What it is is what was chosen for them. Maybe some day they'll be able to choose themselves - women included.

Like Morocco? They chose an Islamist government. Ditto Tunisia. Ditto Egypt. Must be the oppressive nature huh