Brutality in Saudi

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

westboro bases they Beliefs on Christianity and they are hate-filled idiots. Difference is they are not running a whole country.. Plus I am pretty sure I did not insult you

Now ! see how easy I connected Westboro to Christianity.. Can you tell me what all law in Saudi is based on or is the truth to painful.

Well you called me an anti-Semite and you said I had "burka-tinted glasses," among a whole series of other stupid remarks.

Why would you connect Westboro to Christianity ? Do any mainstream Christian leaders endorse their beliefs ?

"Or is the truth too painful" :rofl:

I wasn't imagining anything. That's why I asked. Generally when someone makes a final warning threat, they convey the consequences. You did no such thing, which is why I asked.

Well I thought it was obvious.

[Karee 4,190]

Well you called me an anti-Semite and you said I had "burka-tinted glasses," among a whole series of other stupid remarks.

Why would you connect Westboro to Christianity ? Do any mainstream Christian leaders endorse their beliefs ?

"Or is the truth too painful" :rofl:

Well I thought it was obvious.

"This is your final warning before I report you." That's obvious.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

"This is your final warning before I report you." That's obvious.

It's obvious-er.

[Karee 4,190]

It's obvious-er.

True.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

You are smart enough to read and understand. Nobody said that ..

What I am saying... and I have said it over and over. Not all Muslims are bad people, Not all Muslim countries are run by oppressive fundamentalist regimes. I get that...

What I am saying.. Saudi is a place that is run by Fundamentalist oppressive Muslims. If the Westboro crowd was running America, we would be a lot like Saudi.

okay, there's no disagreement on these statements

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

Again, who has said that there is no oppression of women in Saudi ?? You keep making this claim, with no basis. If you are accusing ME of saying that, you need to either provide a direct quote from me, or retract your lie.

And there is nothing in this article that backs up your continuing mantra that Islam is the reason for these problems. Zero. Zip. Zilch.

OK so let me understand.

Sharia Law dictates and is the basis for almost everything in Saudi . Sharia law ( As implemented in Saudi) is oprreresive and Brutal. Sharia law is based on an "understanding" of Islam.. Yet you are telling me Islam has nothing to do with Saudi's problems. Just want to make sure I understand.

I am not accusing you of anything. If I cared or had time, you have made .statements that Saudi women are some of the most educated in the world.

I will close with,, my beef is not with Islam but radical Islam, of the kind that runs Saudi......

okay, there's no disagreement on these statements

cool

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

Well you called me an anti-Semite and you said I had "burka-tinted glasses," among a whole series of other stupid remarks.

Why would you connect Westboro to Christianity ? Do any mainstream Christian leaders endorse their beliefs ?

"Or is the truth too painful" :rofl:

Well I thought it was obvious.

I called said you were antisemitic because so much of what you post bashes Isreal.. Just like you have called me an Islaphobe because I don't care for radical Islamic regimes that brutalize women and treat people like cattle.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

You are smart enough to read and understand. Nobody said that ..

What I am saying... and I have said it over and over. Not all Muslims are bad people, Not all Muslim countries are run by oppressive fundamentalist regimes. I get that...

What I am saying.. Saudi is a place that is run by Fundamentalist oppressive Muslims. If the Westboro crowd was running America, we would be a lot like Saudi.

If this was the substance of all your posts, nobody would argue with you (well maybe VP "Salafi Princess" but she's not here any more.)

I called said you were antisemitic because so much of what you post bashes Isreal.. Just like you have called me an Islaphobe because I don't care for radical Islamic regimes that brutalize women and treat people like cattle.

It would be a good thing if you took time to understand the definitions of the words that you attempt to use before you toss them around, or you just end up looking silly.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

If this was the substance of all your posts, nobody would argue with you (well maybe VP "Salafi Princess" but she's not here any more.)

It would be a good thing if you took time to understand the definitions of the words that you attempt to use before you toss them around, or you just end up looking silly.

I am pretty sure I know what that Phrase means

[Kathryn41 3,205]

This is the official 'warning'.

It is very clear that much of what is posted here is clearly 'hate literature' aimed at all of Islam,and not just at the Saudi Wahhabi Islam initially quoted in the opening thread as the" triumphalist, grossly racist, misogynistic and brutal form of Islam". Comments trying to paint all of Islam and all Muslims with the same black brush, and attributing comments supposedly in support of this attitude, violate the Terms of Service for Visa Journey. Regardless of whether you believe this or not, repetitious posting trying to stir up anger, incite hatred against a specific group of people, and turn members of this community against each other because they do not share this perspective, are not acceptable. Constantly de-railing threads on one topic to pick up this same refrain is also unacceptable. Members are allowed to post opposing points of view and discuss them courteously and considerately. They are not allowed to couch their responses in inflammatory language aimed at a specific group or a specific individual who is a member of this site, nor are they allowed to attribute comments that were not made by other members to them in an attempt to discredit them.

Any further posts that make such unwarranted attributions, such incendiary generalizations or target individuals or groups with comments designed to create negative reactions, anger or hatred will result in the poster being threadbanned. Further administrative action may also be taken, if necessary.

[decocker 7,198]

ok how about perceived criticism?

i don't see anyone in this thread defending what took place in the op. that's what's so ridiculous about this constant back and forth. no one is saying what happened to the woman in the op is justified by any religious law. other than that i don't know what there is to be criticized. or am i missing something?

[Karee 4,190]

i don't see anyone in this thread defending what took place in the op. that's what's so ridiculous about this constant back and forth. no one is saying what happened to the woman in the op is justified by any religious law. other than that i don't know what there is to be criticized. or am i missing something?

^^^^^ What AJ said.

[himher 634]

So tell me then. What is the basis for so much of the oppression in Saudi. We are back. To. All Saudi law is based on what

I'm your huckleberry LOL

I do not believe you are an Islamophobe (sp?) but I do believe that you might be the jury member who sees the case in front of you all laid out but might hesitate to vote because you know the perp may be pushing up daisies in a few months or years. Mercy is good. Too much tends to reward bad behavior.

Your answer: It is based on Islamic principles.

In Islamic law it is not allowed for single men and women to mingle in a private place. Public places that are public to all (example street, market, etc are specifically excluded HOWEVER in Saudi, unlike other Muslim countries, they choose, themselves, to apply this law to places like restaurants, etc where there are women's sections, family sections, and men's sections in almost every location. The choice to separate at this level is cultural application of the requirement for single unrelated men/women not to mingle BUT not specifically required by Islamic law for public locations.

The punishment for two unrelated people caught alone is lashes. There were several cases of this while we were there and the lashes are often given publicly in the square for everyone else to see. This punishment was spelled out hundreds of years ago and when a couple is found together and caught red-handed the law is applied. The purpose of the law is clear. You and others are the first to note the impact of a rising class of single mothers and fatherless on society and that society has little of and sees little of the problems related to this issue that we have here.

It is not pretty but many punishments are not. The society there, as a whole, believes that though not pretty it is necessary. Though it is different from western law it is not as harsh as jewish law. The girl did not get punished because she got raped. She got punished for being with an unrelated man.

Which specific law or principal do you wish to discuss?

Edited April 12, 2013 by himher

[himher 634]

How about this.. neutral source... Still maintain women in Saudi are not oppressed.

http://pilr.blogs.law.pace.edu/2012/11/29/oppression-of-women-in-saudi-arabia-grows-gps-tracking-of-wives-is-now-up-and-running/

Women in Saudi Arabia are terribly oppressed – they cannot vote, drive, or work in many places. To even leave the country, they need to produce written permission from their male guardian (their father, brother, or husband), even if the woman is going out of the country with the male guardian. Saudi Arabia has taken this extremely misogynistic view to a new level though – male guardians will now receive a text message alert when “their” woman is leaving the country. Even more disgusting is that these texts – sent from the Interior Ministry as part of its tracking system – are being sent to all male guardians; including those who opted out of this program. While this program has been in place since 2010, until recently, guardians had to specifically request the notifications in order to receive them.

Manal Al-Sharif and her husband were “shocked” when they were leaving Saudi Arabia together, when all of a sudden her husband received a text letting him know his wife was leaving the country. Al-Sharif’s husband had not requested from the Interior Ministry this information, alarming the two even more.

This alert program is not just for women though – it is also used for those who women are most aptly compared to in Saudi Arabia- these alerts are also used for children, and children also have guardians.

Saudi writer and blogger Eman Al Nafjan posits the question:

“Why is [the guardianship system] being technologically implemented and being updated?… Why is it not being phased out? That’s the real question.”

In 2012, is the fact that Saudi Arabia is finding new ways to infantilize women a sign that it has no intention of giving women the rights and freedoms they deserve? Is the GPS alert an indication that Saudi Arabia intends to restrict women’s rights further in the years to come? What should be done to push Saudi Arabia into the modern era and end its misogynistic treatment of women?

My wife/daughter travelled several times from Saudi to Indonesia without me. The last time was fall 2011. I don't even know what "written permission" looks like much less ever prepared it.

It is very common for ladies to travel across the border to Bahrain or over to Abu Dhabi for shopping. I never even read about any husband saying he had to write them a permission slip. LOL

So I think that, based on real experience, maybe this article might not be all that accurate. In fact it sounds like bunk. We never experienced anything like that and I don't know anyone who went through that.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

...in Saudi, unlike other Muslim countries, they choose, themselves, to apply this law to places like restaurants, etc where there are women's sections, family sections, and men's sections in almost every location.

Who is "they"?