Brutality in Saudi

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

A women was brutality gang raped, . She was sentenced to lashes because at the time she was alone in a car with a man she was not related to.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?app=forums&module=post&section=post&do=new_post&f=145

This is an absolutely horrendous case out of Saudi Arabia that has only gotten worse. The update is at the bottom. For background from an earlier post:

A man and woman unrelated to each other went out and were accosted by five knife wielding men who kidnapped them. They were taken to a remote location, where the kidnappers gang raped the woman a total of fourteen times. The kidnappers/rapists were eventually caught. On those facts, what do law and justice demand as punishment for the guilty and as recompense for the victim?

If we were in America, the charges would likely be aggravated kidnapping and aggravated rape along with a smattering of other, lesser charges. It is quite likely the prison terms for these offenses, in sum, would range from twenty years to life. The victim would be be given counselling and she would likely receive funds from a government victim's compensation program.

That's in America, where we are ruled by a secular legal code that developed out of a judeo-christian ethic. It would likely be similar in any western country. In Saudi Arabia, where this crime actually occurred, the nation is officially ruled by Sharia law -- the code of law discerned from a reading of the Koran -- and as interpreted within the strictures of Wahhabi Islam. Wahhabi Islam is, unfortunate to say, the triumphalist, grossly racist, misogynistic and brutal form of Islam that has been exported to the United States and across the world by Saudi Arabia, using billions of dollars of oil money. So what happens to the victim and her attackers under Wahhabi Sharia law?

According to a report in the Agence France-Presse:

Five men were arrested for the rape and given jail terms ranging from 10 months to five years by a panel of judges . . . But the judges also decided to sentence the woman . . . and the man to lashes for being alone together in the car.

Yes, you heard that correctly. The victim will be flogged for, as the article goes on to say, a total of 90 lashes.

To illustrate just how barbaric this punishmet is, here is a description of a Saudi judicial flogging given to a man.

I was brought to the whipping area. They tied me to a post. My hands were handcuffed and they also shackled my legs. I was wearing a T-shirt and jogging pants... The whip was one and a half metres long... with a heavy lead piece attached to the tip. It was terrible. Some fell on my thighs and my back. I would fall when the whip reached my feet but the prison guard would raise me up to continue the whipping. It was terrible. I was amazed to find myself still alive after the 70th lash was given. It lasted about 15 minutes... my back was bleeding. I cried.

As to the victim in the rape, she appealed her verdict but was "told by one of the judges [that] she was lucky not to have been given jail time." Since her trial, the woman . . . [has] tried to commit suicide because of her ordeal and was beaten by her younger brother because the rape had brought shame on their family." Nice to see her family supporting her and protecting her honor, isn't it?

Now for the update today on the outcome of the woman's appeal

A 19-year-old female victim of gang rape who initially was ordered to undergo 90 lashes for "being in the car of an unrelated male at the time of the rape," has been sentenced to 200 lashes and six months in jail for telling her story to the news media.

The new verdict was handed down by Saudi Arabia's Higher Judicial Council following a retrial, the Arab News reported.

The court last year sentenced the six heavily-armed men who carried out the attack against the Shiite woman to between one and five years for committing the crime.

But the judges had decided to punish the woman further for "her attempt to aggravate and influence the judiciary through the media," a court source told the Arab News.

The new verdict issued on Wednesday also toughened the sentences against the six men to between two and nine years in prison.

Saudi Arabia enforces a strict Islamic doctrine that forbids unrelated men and women from associating with each other, bans women from driving and forces them to cover head-to-toe in public.

This is beyond outrageous. Remember this whenever CAIR, MAS or any other Wahhabi / Salafi organization tries to tell you their version of Islam is a religion of peace or how Islam protects the rights of women. This is medieval barbarity - and that is the essence Wahhabi / Salafi Islam.

Update: The Saudi Courts heavy hand has also extended to the lawyer for the victim.

Update: The Saudi Justice Ministry has reaffirmed the sentence and is making some incredible claims in order to deflect international attention.

[Ban Hammer 13,334]

this story isn't news. it's from 2007 and it's been discussed on this site.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

A women was brutality gang raped, . She was sentenced to lashes because at the time she was alone in a car with a man she was not related to.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?app=foru ms&module=post&section=post&do=new_post&f=145

Your link leads to VJ's generic "Post a New Topic" page.

What is the link for the story you cut and pasted ? It seems to be somebody's message board or blog (as it refers to "from an earlier post.")

Your quoted text from this anonymous source references (apparently) the Qatif rape case of 2006, which got a lot of attention in Western media and which has been covered in depth. Your text mentions that the victim was initially sentenced to be lashed (a punishment which was never carried out - she was given a "pardon" by the Saudi king,) and then switches to a different story about a different case in which a man was lashed.

There is much to criticize in the Saudi legal system, no doubt about it, and women aren't its only victims. But at least give all the facts of a case if you're going to use it as your example (including the final result of the case.) Your cut-and-paste implies that the victim was lashed; she wasn't.

If we were in America, the charges would likely be aggravated kidnapping and aggravated rape along with a smattering of other, lesser charges. It is quite likely the prison terms for these offenses, in sum, would range from twenty years to life. The victim would be be given counselling and she would likely receive funds from a government victim's compensation program.

This is a very glowing assessment of how rape and sexual assault are prosecuted in the US, but is there evidence to back it up ?

In fact, a 2011 CBS news investigation documented almost 90,000 rapes reported in the US in 2010, yet only about 22,000 arrests were made. Tens of thousands of rape kits were not even sent for testing (this has been a huge story here in Texas in recent years, and it's still going on.) So it seems about 75% of these rapists in the US were never even prosecuted. (In comparison, the arrest rate for murder is about 79% in the US, and the arrest rate for aggravated assault is about 51%.)

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-500690_162-5590118.html

Also, where is your evidence of rape victims in the US "likely" getting funds from a "government victim's compensation program" ? Do the majority of rape victims receive this ? What about victims where no person was ever arrested or convicted - which make up the overwhelming majority of cases ? Again, this seems to be a very glowing assessment with little to back it up.

That's in America, where we are ruled by a secular legal code that developed out of a judeo-christian ethic. It would likely be similar in any western country. In Saudi Arabia, where this crime actually occurred, the nation is officially ruled by Sharia law -- the code of law discerned from a reading of the Koran -- and as interpreted within the strictures of Wahhabi Islam. Wahhabi Islam is, unfortunate to say, the triumphalist, grossly racist, misogynistic and brutal form of Islam that has been exported to the United States and across the world by Saudi Arabia, using billions of dollars of oil money. So what happens to the victim and her attackers under Wahhabi Sharia law?

"Judeo-Christian ethic" is a red herring. If you actually studied religion, instead of getting "info" about Islam from hate sites, you would realize that there at least as many similarities between Christianity and Islam as there are between Judaism and Christianity, if not more.

Anyway, the key phrase is highlighted. It's Wahhabi #######, which most of the Muslim world wants nothing to do with, and may even consider heresy.

But how many Wahhabis have been "exported" to the US ? The article makes it sound like there is a frightening mass invasion underway into the United States. Do you have any specific numbers or estimates on that ? (from a reliable source this time, please, not some unnamed message board or blog.)

Edited April 12, 2013 by wife_of_mahmoud

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

this story isn't news. it's from 2007 and it's been discussed on this site.

yeah but it talks about how bad moosleems are ...

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

yeah but it talks about how bad moosleems are ...

No it tlaks about how brutal Saudi is .

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

What is the link for the story you cut and pasted?

infidelsarecool.com, webashislam.org, muslimsaretehevil.net - take your pick.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

No it tlaks about how brutal Saudi is.

The attack is broader than that. May have escaped you but it sure didn't escape me.

In Saudi Arabia, where this crime actually occurred, the nation is officially ruled by Sharia law -- the code of law discerned from a reading of the Koran

Why bring Sharia and the Koran into this "report" if it is not about those evil moosleems and their religion?

[Darnell 8,478]

It's the Wahhabi ! It's the Wahhabi !!

[Sandra G. 5,047]

Some countries should just vanish from earth with their stupid and inhumane laws.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Some countries should just vanish from earth with their stupid and inhumane laws.

Are you quoting Ahmedinejad

[himher 634]

Saudi Arabia enforces a strict Islamic doctrine that forbids unrelated men and women from associating with each other, bans women from driving and forces them to cover head-to-toe in public.

Yes, they do. They applied the law to the case and the law is written neatly down. If you do this then that is the penalty and they dam sure do what they say they will do and god help you if you choose to break those laws.

As distasteful as this article seems to you and as strict and brutal as the country seems here are some comparisons:

The incarceration rate is 102 per 100k. Ours is 743 more than 700% higher.

The murder rate is .18. Ours is 4.7, more than 2600% higher.

Total, all combined crime rate is 301. Our violent + property crime rate is 3294 (1100% higher) and our violent crime rate, 386.3, exceeds the total overall combined violent + property crime rate by 128%.

We lived there several years. Nobody bothered us. We didnt lock our doors or look over our shoulder or worry that someone would pick something up that didnt belong to them. Nobody around us, American or from other countries or Saudis worried about oppression or being victimized either. Because if you follow the law then you are unbothered and the incarceration statistics reflect that.

Better not to be assaulted and raped in the first place I would think. But that's just me.

If we were in America, the charges would likely be aggravated kidnapping and aggravated rape along with a smattering of other, lesser charges. It is quite likely the prison terms for these offenses, in sum, would range from twenty years to life. The victim would be be given counselling and she would likely receive funds from a government victim's compensation program.

Or they may plea out. Or they may get a suspended sentence. Of one may evade prosecution if he makes a deal and rolls over on the others. The criminals might pay or might not pay. Don't wave our justice system around like it's some sort of a standard of excellence.

Edited April 12, 2013 by himher

[himher 634]

Are you quoting Ahmedinejad

I swear its the SNL version of him!

[decocker 7,198]

Or they may plea out. Or they may get a suspended sentence. Of one may evade prosecution if he makes a deal and rolls over on the others. The criminals might pay or might not pay. Don't wave our justice system around like it's some sort of a standard of excellence.

indeed.

i'm confused though, did you write this part or is this part of the link that never was?

[Sarah Elle-Même 660]

If we were in America, the charges would likely be aggravated kidnapping and aggravated rape along with a smattering of other, lesser charges. It is quite likely the prison terms for these offenses, in sum, would range from twenty years to life. The victim would be be given counselling and she would likely receive funds from a government victim's compensation program.

That's in America, where we are ruled by a secular legal code that developed out of a judeo-christian ethic. It would likely be similar in any western country. In Saudi Arabia, where this crime actually occurred, the nation is officially ruled by Sharia law -- the code of law discerned from a reading of the Koran -- and as interpreted within the strictures of Wahhabi Islam. Wahhabi Islam is, unfortunate to say, the triumphalist, grossly racist, misogynistic and brutal form of Islam that has been exported to the United States and across the world by Saudi Arabia, using billions of dollars of oil money. So what happens to the victim and her attackers under Wahhabi Sharia law?

Your view on how rape is punished in the U.S. is rosy to say the least. I was raped and beaten when I was in college and I did all the right things, went through painful medical exams, testified to the police, to the court, and the ####### was acquitted after my university went to bat for him (he was a charity case for them and they even dedicated a scholarship program in his name) and threatened to expel me for making up lies (bruises all over my body - lies??). I never wanted to believe the ADA on my case [who was always offering to cut him a plea deal] when he said the fake portrait his defense was painting about me being unstable was apparently believable enough. And this all occurred in New England - supposedly the bastion of liberal freedom in our country. Thankfully I had my fiance (who was not my fiance yet) and friends there to help me pick up the pieces. Can you fathom what restraint it took for my fiance (my then boyfriend) to watch and not kill this guy as he walked around and lived freely on campus after brutalizing me? And people say Arabs are out of control with anger. The prospect of prison rape also wasn't appealing to him...

Saudi Arabia is probably the biggest hell hole on Earth, even according to many average Saudis. I have been there, I would know. Money doesn't make you civilized. In fact, in KSA, corruption is their real religion. I don't see why you think this somehow tells us something about all of Islam, a religion practiced by over 1 billion people. Just because they lay claim to Mecca doesn't mean Muslims in the rest of the world give two sh*ts about the kraaaaaazy kingdom or it's laws. Saudis are the butt of many jokes, especially in other Gulf countries. And FYI such laws are rarely applied if a "criminal" is rich and well connected. Lots of women in KSA commit adultery and have children out of wedlock. Very rarely is this punished. You may find victims of crimes getting punished because the perpetrator's family bribes corrupt officials and the court. Maybe this was what occurred in that case you mentioned years ago. Western news sources are very careful about what they say and don't say about Saudi Arabia. You will never hear the whole story.

Edited April 12, 2013 by Sarah and Adnan

[sara..... 371]

Your view on how rape is punished in the U.S. is rosy to say the least. I was raped and beaten when I was in college and I did all the right things, went through painful medical exams, testified to the police, to the court, and the ####### was acquitted after my university went to bat for him (he was a charity case for them and they even dedicated a scholarship program in his name) and threatened to expel me for making up lies (bruises all over my body - lies??). I never wanted to believe the ADA on my case [who was always offering to cut him a plea deal] when he said the fake portrait his defense was painting about me being unstable was apparently believable enough. And this all occurred in New England - supposedly the bastion of liberal freedom in our country. Thankfully I had my fiance (who was not my fiance yet) and friends there to help me pick up the pieces. Can you fathom what restraint it took for my fiance (my then boyfriend) to watch and not kill this guy as walk around and live freely on campus after brutalizing me? And people say Arabs are out of control with anger. The prospect of prison rape also wasn't appealing to him...

Saudi Arabia is probably the biggest hell hole on Earth, even according to many average Saudis. I have been there, I would know. Money doesn't make you civilized. In fact, in KSA, corruption is their real religion. I don't see why you think this somehow tells us something about all of Islam, a religion practiced by over 1 billion people. Just because they lay claim to Mecca doesn't mean Muslims in the rest of the world give two sh*ts about the kraaaaaazy kingdom or it's laws. Saudis are the butt of many jokes, especially in other Gulf countries. And FYI such laws are rarely applied if a "criminal" is rich and well connected. Lots of women in KSA commit adultery and have children out of wedlock. Very rarely is this punished. You may find victims of crimes getting punished because the perpetrator's family bribes corrupt officials and the court. Maybe this was what occurred in that case you mentioned years ago. Western news sources are very careful about what they say and don't say about Saudi Arabia. You will never hear the whole story.

Im very sorry to read what happened to you....we are Muslims.....one of my younger sisters was brutally raped when she was 13...he was in his 30s...justice system in our country USA did nothing....sure talked to the life long criminal that did this to her in our own home but the police decided it was a she said he said situation didnt even make it to the DA...we have done everything in our power to help her thru this......and the only thing that we can say is for some USA justice is almost exempt for some people that try to get justice......sadly there were three other girls raped before they finally put this person away....if justice had been served at the time this happened to my sister the three other girls ages 12.13.and 13 would have been saved.

saudi has a lot of faults in the way that their law looks at women when something happens but here in the USA we can not claim that we are any better when nothing at all is done even when the evidence is right there in front of them.....

just my opinion

sara