Fear of democracy in the Jewish community

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

so not true. Christianity catches it here . The difference is that we are not in a complete state of denial about the problems that are inherent in our religion. Isalm has much bigger problem with radical absurd bigoted especially mygonic practices than do many other religions.

Who is "we" ???? *YOU* and people who think like you do not represent Christianity.

When someone like Wife of M continues to try and feed us BS about how good women have it in places like Saudi, Afghanistan, Iran etc. and how some of the problems are just because of a few polotical problems. Well at that point everyone knows it is such a complete pile of malarkey, she really hurts Islam more than she helps it.

Quote me where I have said any such things, or take your BS and stuff it.

You want to gain my respect. be honest and open about the bad,, tell me about the good and convince me by being the practical Muslims that is very outspoken for women's rights, human rights, and absolutely condemn any and all that support terrorism. When someone babbles on about how good women have it under fundamentalist Islamic regimes then I have no interest in trying to have a rational conversation with them.

Notice i keep saying fundamentalist. That does not include all Muslims. I know that. I know not all Muslims are bad.. I get it

No Muslims give a hoot about your so-called "respect," because you don't even understand the meaning of the term.

as far as Positive things about Muslims. Is anything positive about anything ever posted here.

Not as far as you're concerned, and you would do anything to stink up such thread with more of your nonsense.

Wahhabism. Go look it up on Wikipedia or something. Their interpretation of the Holy Qur'an is whackadoo to many Muslims. Much like we modern Christians find Pentecostals to be whackadoo.

He truly does not want to know this.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

completely not the difference. "complete state of denial" is not valid description with either group.

basically you're saying that christians as a whole are aware that they have extremists and islam as a whole is unaware of their extremists.

I should have said I.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

Wahhabism. Go look it up on Wikipedia or something. Their interpretation of the Holy Qur'an is whackadoo to many Muslims. Much like we modern Christians find Pentecostals to be whackadoo.

If you will go read what is written you will find that I used the exact word "Pentecostal" in a reference to Fundamental Islamic. I made the same exact argument you are making. Whats up with that.

[mota bhai 2,675]

If you will go read what is written you will find that I used the exact word "Pentecostal" in a reference to Fundamental Islamic. I made the same exact argument you are making. Whats up with that.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Nature do you have any actual comment on the OP article, or are you just here to call people names ?

[Sarah Elle-Même 660]

If you will go read what is written you will find that I used the exact word "Pentecostal" in a reference to Fundamental Islamic. I made the same exact argument you are making. Whats up with that.

I wasn't arguing with your comparison. But if you think the general population [average citizens] in Muslim countries aren't aware of extremist elements and aren't wholly angered by it, you're dead wrong. Many, many, many more Muslims are killed by extremists around the world than any other group. Such extremists are reviled in Islamic countries in ways we can't even fathom. Talk to any of my fiance's family or friends they'll say the only way to deal with the AQAP problem in Yemen is to exterminate them like cockroaches, with chemical and nuclear weapons. But their interim government is too weak and corrupt. I think government corruption and ineptitude and anti-imperialist sentiment is a much more likely candidate for why militant groups spread than that the local population likes having them around. Do you really think villagers in Pakistan like having drones rain missiles down on them, killing their children?

Edited April 11, 2013 by Sarah and Adnan

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

Who is "we" ???? *YOU* and people who think like you do not represent Christianity.

Quote me where I have said any such things, or take your BS and stuff it.

No Muslims give a hoot about your so-called "respect," because you don't even understand the meaning of the term.

Not as far as you're concerned, and you would do anything to stink up such thread with more of your nonsense.

He truly does not want to know this.

More hot air.. what law is the law in Saudi A. Can you answer that question. i am talking about Saudi. I understand Saudi does not represent all Muslim countries, we are talking about fundamentalist Islam which has a huge human rights . We are not talking about countries like Turkey, Lebanon,morocco, Malaysia. I get it

[decocker 7,198]

I should have said I.

haha, what?

I get it

nope.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

More hot air.. what law is the law in Saudi A. Can you answer that question. i am talking about Saudi. I understand Saudi does not represent all Muslim countries, we are talking about fundamentalist Islam which has a huge human rights . We are not talking about countries like Turkey, Lebanon,morocco, Malaysia. I get it

You just want to derail this thread, because you don't like Israel being criticized. Go start a thread about Saudi Arabia if that's what you insist on talking about, since you've got nothing to say about the topic (at least nothing that makes any sense.)

Edited April 11, 2013 by wife_of_mahmoud

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

You just want to derail this thread, because you don't like Israel being criticized. Go start a thread about Saudi Arabia if that's what you insist on talking about, since you've got nothing to say about the topic (at least nothing that makes any sense.)

Like i said.. You maintain that Saudi's issue is not Islam, but you will not acknowledge what is the law in Saudi and what dictates the law.

Once again. I am not attacking Islam. I am attacking fundamentalist Nut-Job mysogenic, Islam. I know their is a difference.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

I wasn't arguing with your comparison. But if you think the general population [average citizens] in Muslim countries aren't aware of extremist elements and aren't wholly angered by it, you're dead wrong. Many, many, many more Muslims are killed by extremists around the world than any other group. Such extremists are reviled in Islamic countries in ways we can't even fathom. Talk to any of my fiance's family or friends they'll say the only way to deal with the AQAP problem in Yemen is to exterminate them like cockroaches, with chemical and nuclear weapons. But their interim government is too weak and corrupt. I think government corruption and ineptitude and anti-imperialist sentiment is a much more likely candidate for why militant groups spread than that the local population likes having them around. Do you really think villagers in Pakistan like having drones rain missiles down on them, killing their children?

How many times do I have to say fundamental Islam. I know the difference in people like Marvin and Bin Laden. My comparison was the absolute dismal human rights records of countries lead by Fundamentalist Islamic movements like Saudi has

WOM said it is not politics it is religion. I call B.S. because in Saudi religion and politics is the same thing..

She posts nothing but Anti-semantic material and then goes ballistic if you dare suggest that Islam also has a problem to deal with... AS DOES ISRAEL

You just want to derail this thread, because you don't like Israel being criticized. Go start a thread about Saudi Arabia if that's what you insist on talking about, since you've got nothing to say about the topic (at least nothing that makes any sense.)

I don't want to derail this thread. You just can't handle the truth. The truth is that all religions have Wingnuts factions, but that in some instances the wing nuts are running the country as in Saudi.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Ratner artfully moderated the debate, which centered around three questions: Why is democracy in Israel important to you? Do you believe Israel is, or could be, a democracy? Do American Jews have a role in shaping Israeli democracy?

...

The nub of the debate centered on the second question.

Vilkomerson took on the task of debunking the notion that Israel is a democracy within the Green Line because Palestinians can vote. She noted that Palestinians are discriminated against in every aspect of life, from education to housing to politics. The Jewish Voice for Peace director--who made clear that her opinions do not represent her organization--said that the “Nakba Law” was “emblematic” of how Israel treats Palestinians. That law authorizes the Israeli government to deny funding to institutions that commemorate the Nakba--the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians in 1948, a historical event of paramount importance in the Palestinian national narrative. The body of laws that discriminate against Palestinian citizens of Israel “creates a second-class citizenship,” said Vilkomerson.

Peratis, who quipped that it was an “odd experience” for her to be on the political right of a panel, argued that Israel was a flawed democracy--though not in the occupied territories. “Discrimination against Palestinians is not structural,” she said. “I still have the hope that Israel’s flawed democracy” can be corrected, Peratis also said.

Neimark, a founding member of Jews for Racial and Economic Justice, said that the fact that “such a question is necessary”--referring to the question of whether Israel is a democracy--speaks volumes.

Goldberg argued that Israel within the Green Line was a democracy, and that the settlements are not part of Israel. He claimed that even the Israeli government’s position is that the settlements are not part of Israel, but that the settler movement is wreaking havoc on Israeli democracy.

One of the more revealing discussions during the night centered on an Israeli Supreme Court decision in 2000 that ordered a Jewish community to allow a Palestinian family to live there after the community barred the family because they weren't Jews. The Katzir decision was cited by Peratis and Goldberg in response to Vilkomerson’s statement that land distribution in Israel is discriminatory and an example of second-class Palestinian citizenship. The Katzir decision was hailed by Peratis as a “glimmer of hope”--and an example of how Israeli democracy can work, inasmuch as the Supreme Court ruled that the state was prohibited from land distribution discrimination on the basis of religion or nationality.

But Peratis and Goldberg acknowledged that the decision has yet to be implemented--13 years after the fact. Indeed, a law passed in March 2011 authorizes small Jewish communities to “screen” applicants and reject them if they “do not suit the lifestyle and social fabric of the community.” In effect, as Adalah, a Palestinian rights group within Israel, points out, the law “validates and legalizes all bases for exclusion by admission committees, which overwhelming bars Palestinian Arab citizens of Israel from living in these towns.”

Another revealing moment came during the question and answer session. Dorothy Zellner, a long-time civil rights activist and member of Jews Say No!, questioned Goldberg and Peratis sharply: is there a contradiction between an ethnic state and democracy?

Peratis was honest on this front. “I really don’t have an answer to that question...I’m struggling with it.” Peratis said that she wants to “maintain a Jewish majority”-- as an essential element of the Zionist vision. But she struggled with how to reconcile that position with her values in favor of democracy and equality.

http://mondoweiss.net/2013/04/spirited-whether-democracy.html

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

I love semantics, in particular linguistic semantics.

You could say I'm a semantophile.

[GandD 5,966]

as far as Positive things about Muslims. Is anything positive about anything ever posted here.

Good point. Someone could post "Sex is fun" and you'd get differing opinions

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

so not true. Christianity catches it here . The difference is that we are not in a complete state of denial about the problems that are inherent in our religion. Isalm has much bigger problem with radical absurd bigoted especially mygonic practices than do many other religions.

When someone like Wife of M continues to try and feed us BS about how good women have it in places like Saudi, Afghanistan, Iran etc. and how some of the problems are just because of a few polotical problems. Well at that point everyone knows it is such a complete pile of malarkey, she really hurts Islam more than she helps it.

You want to gain my respect. be honest and open about the bad,, tell me about the good and convince me by being the practical Muslims that is very outspoken for women's rights, human rights, and absolutely condemn any and all that support terrorism. When someone babbles on about how good women have it under fundamentalist Islamic regimes then I have no interest in trying to have a rational conversation with them.

Notice i keep saying fundamentalist. That does not include all Muslims. I know that. I know not all Muslims are bad.. I get it

as far as Positive things about Muslims. Is anything positive about anything ever posted here.

1. Christians don't get nearly the amount of negativity Islam gets, not even close. As WOM has stated if someone talks about it, it's a debate, and bet even money Islam will be brought into it even if it has no bearing on the topic at all. Islam is like black gun violence, no matter what happens in other religions, someone will always bring Islam or the prophet into it. I've posted a positive story on it a few months back since one member swore he just posted world news(but 90% are anti-Islam, the other 10% are anti-Obama) and when I asked him to do the same, he disappeared.

2. The part I bolded isn't true. You know why? Becasue every time a story gets posted and we come here to debunk it, it gets nasty every time. Over and over again, I've said we can't speak for the extremists that commit terror and kill in Allah's name. But when we try to post quotes that show the Quran and the Bible are more similar than most people want to admit, when we repost stories that Fox news and other bias stations post that leave out pertinent information which would make the story less sensational they resort to name calling and going off to post more Islamaphobia material. They've made their minds up and want to cause hate and discontent, yet we are the ones called terrorists.