US dusting off old Arab Peace Proposal, ignored for 11 years

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Hezbollah may very well end up in control of Syria. That will severely limit Israel's options, especially if Syria is being backed by a nuclear Iran. That is more than enough incentive for Israel to play nice, and get back in the good graces of the UN and the rest of the world. Reestablishing good relations with Turkey, its former military partner, and with Egypt and Jordan, peace partners of the last century, would go a long way toward that. That path leads through Gaza, and the West Bank. Frankly, Israel is running out of options, short of starting another shooting war.

There is a possibility that Hezbollah might try something like that. But there are other factors within the Arab world that make it less likely. First of all, Hezbollah is predominantly a Shi'a organization, and the Shi'a are a minority in Syria. Yes, it's true that the Assad regime is Alawite, which is a Shi'a sect, but Alawites make up a very small percentage of the Syrian population. About 75% of the Syrian population is Sunni Muslim. There are also small numbers of Christians, Druze and Jews.

Qatar and Saudi Arabia, the main supporters (or "fronts" for supporting) the Syrian resistance, are overwhelmingly Sunni Muslim countries, with only a small minority of Shi'a.

Lots of marbles in this game, and I have not even mentioned them all.

Edited April 10, 2013 by wife_of_mahmoud

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

I'm responding to your assertion that everything is a happy wonderland in Iran if you're not Muslim and claiming an op-ed piece in a paper that quotes a couple people tells an entire story. While you repeatedly ignore and dismiss evidence to the contrary. But since you want to focus on just one religion, and ignore what they're doing to others, before the Islamic revolution there were 80,000 Jews in Iran a census in August 2012 revealed that there were only 8,756 Jews still living in Iran. It appears they've done a darn good job making sure those Jews feel at home, since darn near 90 percent of them are now gone. And god forbid a Muslim happened to want to marry one and convert to Judaism.

Stop trying to make up stuff. I was very clear in my comments, and they have no relation to what you claim I said.

You were wrong, but you can't admit it. The squid technique of internet debate (release more ink as cover for escape) nuh mek it.

[Caryh 5,206]

Stop trying to make up stuff. I was very clear in my comments, and they have no relation to what you claim I said.

You were wrong, but you can't admit it. The squid technique of internet debate (release more ink as cover for escape) nuh mek it.

You took issue with my comment about Iran not liking infidels. In no way is showing how Iran treats infidels wrong in backing my position. You put forth an op-ed piece with comments from a couple Jews trying to show infidels are treated well in Iran, when the entire world knows that not to be the case. Then you claim I'm wrong, throw your burka tinted glasses on and claim a win.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

You took issue with my comment about Iran not liking infidels. In no way is showing how Iran treats infidels wrong in backing my position. You put forth an op-ed piece with comments from a couple Jews trying to show infidels are treated well in Iran, when the entire world knows that not to be the case. Then you claim I'm wrong, throw your burka tinted glasses on and claim a win.

If you had bothered to find out what "infidel" refers to in Islam, you be able to come up with a post on the subject that's not laughable.

At any rate, you will dismiss absolutely anything that flies in the face of your own prejudice and misconceptions, even if it comes from the very people who are the subjects of your misconceptions.

That's ok, my posts are not specifically for your benefit, but rather for a wider audience who actually wants to expand their horizons and discuss facts in a reasonable manner.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

By the way, Cary, "Burka-tinted glasses" is yet another personal attack based on your own bigotry against Muslims. It should be reported, but I would like to let it stand as a testament and insight so that all may see the type of mentality behind your comments.

[OriZ 3,157]

Actually I did, and a few people's comments does not explain away much more. You didn't read what they do to Bahá'ís did you. I've spoken with numerous Bahá'ís in person that would give a completely different story. BTW what happens to a Muslim in Iran who converts to another religion? Or will you go back to telling me to read about a couple of Iranian Jews who haven't felt persecuted in Iran?

What else are they going to say? Saying oh yeah they treat me like ####### is like saying come kill me.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

What else are they going to say? Saying oh yeah they treat me like ####### is like saying come kill me.

If Iranian Jews are truly afraid for their safety, why have they not left ? It's not illegal for Iranian Jews to move to Israel, nor is it difficult to do - and Israel continually encourages them to make that move by offering them all sorts of financial incentives.

But by all means - keep imagining the boogie man in the closet forcing them to stay in Iran and making them say all sorts of things that don't agree with your own misconceptions.

Back to topic nao.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

More of the horse-trading:

Report: Israeli intelligence recommends release of pre-Oslo prisoners

TEL AVIV, Israel (Ma'an) -- Israeli intelligence services advised Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to release dozens of Palestinians detained before the Oslo Accords, Israeli media reported Wednesday.

The Hebrew-language daily Maariv reported that security services advised Netanyahu that the prisoners detained before 1993 did not pose a security risk to Israel.

Some 123 Palestinians have been detained in Israel for over 20 years.

According to the report, US Secretary of State John Kerry unsuccessfully pressured Netanyahu to release some of the detainees during talks earlier this week.

On Sunday, President Mahmoud Abbas told Kerry that releasing prisoners was a "top priority" for resuming talks with Israel.

"President Abbas made a passionate argument to me about the prisoners and I think the government of Israel has a full understanding of the potency of that issue," Kerry said.

Maariv reported that Netanyahu's office denied reports prisoners would be released before negotiations resumed.

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=584377

[OriZ 3,157]

There is a possibility that Hezbollah might try something like that. But there are other factors within the Arab world that make it less likely. First of all, Hezbollah is predominantly a Shi'a organization, and the Shi'a are a minority in Syria. Yes, it's true that the Assad regime is Alawite, which is a Shi'a sect, but Alawites make up a very small percentage of the Syrian population. About 75% of the Syrian population is Sunni Muslim. There are also small numbers of Christians, Druze and Jews.

Qatar and Saudi Arabia, the main supporters (or "fronts" for supporting) the Syrian resistance, are overwhelmingly Sunni Muslim countries, with only a small minority of Shi'a.

Lots of marbles in this game, and I have not even mentioned them all.

More than 50% of Lebanon's population used to be Christian, that didn't stop Hezbollah and the other Iranian Shi'a arms from trying to and eventually succeeding in taking over a beautiful country that could have been Monaco of the Middle East and destroying it. Even today, only 27% of Lebanon's population is Shi'a.

If Iranian Jews are truly afraid for their safety, why have they not left ? It's not illegal for Iranian Jews to move to Israel, nor is it difficult to do - and Israel continually encourages them to make that move by offering them all sorts of financial incentives.

But by all means - keep imagining the boogie man in the closet forcing them to stay in Iran and making them say all sorts of things that don't agree with your own misconceptions.

Back to topic nao.

Aha! I get it now! Thanks for helping it all make sense to me.

So this is how it is...the remaining Arabs in Israel are afraid for their safety, want nothing to do with the Jewish state, live a life of misery and the only reason they remain in Israel(in the millions) is because that is where their land, their homes and their families are. So "of course" they would rather stay in Israel than go anywhere else. It has nothing to do with how well they are treated.

But! The remaining Jews in Iran...all thousands of them...they have nothing to lose by moving to Israel. They have no land, families or homes in Iran. So the only reason they are staying must be that they are being treated wonderfully.

I'm glad I finally get it now. It all makes sense.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Please start a topic about Lebanon, or about Hezbollah, or about Iran, if you want to continue to talk about that instead of about the topic.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

And now the push-back:

Israel rejects Kerry proposal for renewing talks with PA

http://www.haaretz.com/blogs/diplomania/israel-rejects-kerry-proposal-for-renewing-talks-with-pa.premium-1.514801

Good news - Israel publicly trashes Kerry's peace mission

In remarks to Haaretz today, ‘senior Israeli official’ shows Netanyahu to be the rejectionist, making it easier for Abbas to take ‘unilateral’ steps soon.

Well, that was quick. No sooner does John Kerry wind up his first trip to Israel-Palestine to restart the peace process than the Netanyahu government publicly trashes his plans. Haaretz diplomatic correspondent Barak Ravid reported today that a “senior Israeli official” said Kerry asked Netanyahu to free prisoners, transfer weapons to the Palestinian Authority and give up control of certain parts of the West Bank for the sake of Palestinian economic projects. Netanyahu, however, won’t consider any of these “confidence-building measures” until after peace talks get underway, said the official.

The Catch-22 here is that Netanyahu’s conditions for starting negotiations ensure that they won’t start. Kerry, reasonably enough, wanted Israel and the Palestinians to try to solve their long list of disputes is stages, and to start with borders and security arrangements. That would require Netanyahu to delineate for the first time where he thinks the borders of a Palestinian state should lie, something PA President Mahmoud Abbas, reasonably enough, is asking for. Netanyahu, though, doesn’t want to give the Palestinians anything, certainly not a state, so he’s insisting that the peace talks address all the most contentious issues at once. Haaretz:

Israel demands that if negotiations are to be resumed they will need to address, in parallel, all core issues of the final settlement – including the issue of recognition of Israel as a Jewish state , and a solution to the refugee problem. “If the discussion commences with talks about borders and security, Israel will only give, and will get almost nothing in return,” the senior official said. “When we get to the issues where the Palestinians will need to give something up – like the right of return – we won’t have any bargaining chips left.”

This is the argument of someone who has no intention of reaching an agreement, who only wants to structure the negotiations so the other guy says “no” before he does and thereby gets the blame for the talks’ failure. The truth is that in any good-faith negotiation, the more issues on which you reach agreement, the more incentive you have to compromise on the ones that remain. If the Palestinians got an acceptable deal from Israel on the borders of its state, they would have that much more motivation to give ground later on refugees, which is indeed necessary if they and Israel are ultimately to sign a peace treaty. Netanyahu, however, knows that if he divulges the borders he has in mind for this so-called Palestinian state, as well as the security arrangements he would demand of it, neither Abbas nor Kerry nor anyone else outside of Israel and the Republican Party would take him seriously as a partner for peace negotiations, and he would be blamed for torpedoing them at the start. Better, from Bibi’s point of view, to kick off the talks with demands that Abbas can’t fairly be expected to meet – like renouncing the right of return and recognizing Israel as a Jewish state. That way he gets the blame.

These are the mechanics of Israel’s rejectionist strategy, as spelled out by a typically blinkered senior Israeli official in today’s Haaretz. It seems, then, that the speech Obama gave in Jerusalem three weeks ago didn’t really change the world.

The ball is now in Kerry’s court. I don’t see him going to war with Netanyahu – the Obama administration clearly doesn’t have the guts for that – nor do I think he’ll try too hard to pressure Abbas to agree to Netanyahu’s terms – Abbas is not going to commit suicide. Kerry will probably try to get the two sides to meet somewhere in the middle, which I don’t believe will happen because they’re on two different planets politically – the Palestinians want independence and Israel doesn’t want to give it to them – so this current U.S. attempt at Middle East peacemaking will fade to nothing like so many before it.

But by blowing off Kerry’s mission so brazenly, Israel, presumably, has pissed off the Americans – not enough, unfortunately, for them to sanction this country, but maybe, just maybe, enough for them to let Israel suffer the consequences of its policies. Today’s statement of Israeli rejectionism is good news, a possible small step in the right direction: it makes it easier for Abbas to follow through on his promise to take the occupation to the International Criminal Court and proceed with other “unilateral” steps unless Kerry’s efforts deliver meaningful results within three months, which ain’t gonna happen. As long as the right wing is in power here, nobody’s going to sweet talk Israel into giving up the occupation; this can only be done by uncompromising, adversarial means that magnify Israel’s crime against the Palestinians before the world, that threaten Israel with pariahhood – and only the Palestinians can do that, because nobody else cares enough. Hopefully, then, the senior Israel official quoted in Haaretz today brought the occupation one step closer to The Hague.

http://972mag.com/good-news-israel-publicly-trashes-kerrys-peace-mission/69018/

[erynaught 43]

Stay tuned for the exciting conclusion...

Nothing exciting about it at all. It's a complete waste of US resources and time.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Nothing exciting about it at all. It's a complete waste of US resources and time.

I was being sarcastic

[erynaught 43]

I was being sarcastic

Good to know.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Thread title violates new TOS. Should read: Obama, Kerry dust off old Arab peace proposal in push to resolve Israeli-Palestinian conflict