Husband wants divorce before GC appointment

[Penguin_ie 5,996]

*** several posts removed for being against TOS/ offering legal advice. Get back on topic of the OP please or do not post. ****

[I & B 273]

Well first of all.. I would like to throw out there how completly off topic this is on this thread!!! I was merly offering the original poster a word of advice and adding in a "conversational peice of commonality" to begin with as to assist her in her worries on her current status & situation... With that being clear, i find it rude to continue to argue the point, opinion or fact, that American men cheat often or that they dont, and wether it can be proven by personal case study or just others experiences and " self reporting" if u wanna make this an actual topic ( highly unrelevant) to immigration and or visa statuses) we could move it to a seperate thread out of respect? And by no means did i say i was an expert on this topic.. I stated "i studied this topic" and wrote a research paper using citations on statitical data i found on the way... I am also not " self professed" i am highly educated and dam proud of it!! I use my education every single day and learn new information everyday... I also stay tuned into topics that interest me snd brush up on topics that dont just for preperation of situations unforseeable in my work experience... U can take it or leave it, but i suggest we move this convo else where if its continued.....

I agree it's off topic. But you are the one who injected it into this thread, not me. A lot of people use these forums and rely upon the information presented here. I haven't been a member very long either, but I do appreciate how vigorously the community polices uninformed advice. It's what makes this forum so valuable to me and others. So, when I see such uniformed advice masquerading as fact in a topic area where I am qualified to be the one to police, I try to do my part.

Given all that, I'll reply once more here and then you can take it to messages with me if you still insist on trying to defend your silly claims.

1. You are a self-professed expert because you claimed you had expertise. Your words, not mine. Re-read your post. It's that simple.

2. Citing to your own self professed expertise, you attempted to assert a claim that anyone who has actually done rigorous research in the social sciences would be very, very skeptical about--that men from one extremely large heterogeneous group (Muslims) were more likely to be adulterous than men from another extremely large heterogeneous group (Americans).

3. You stuck to that claim when challenged on it, asserting you had even done some particular research in the relevant area that supported it.

4. You can cite no actual data to back it up and my cursory search of academic databases has come up empty looking for the same. In fact, every prominent paper I can find that is even tangentially related to the topic is so filled with caveats and notes about the inherently unreliable nature of self-reported data about something that is in many countries technically a crime (even while it is a socially accepted practice in certain forms, e.g., through prostitutes or mistresses, so long as those affairs adhere to certain cultural formalities), that it immediately strikes me as absurd for anyone (especially someone whose writing style evinces they likely have not completely a substantial thesis) to claim they have definitive evidence in the area. In short, I am 100% certain that the opinion you offered about infidelity does not meet the community standards here, and your continuing to assert it as fact only serves to misinform a group of people who are looking to this forum for reliable information about very serious life decisions.

Edited April 5, 2013 by I & B

[I & B 273]

I agree it's off topic. But you are the one who injected it into this thread, not me. A lot of people use these forums and rely upon the information presented here. I haven't been a member very long either, but I do appreciate how vigorously the community polices uninformed advice. It's what makes this forum so valuable to me and others. So, when I see such uniformed advice masquerading as fact in a topic area where I am qualified to be the one to police, I try to do my part.

Given all that, I'll reply once more here and then you can take it to messages with me if you still insist on trying to defend your silly claims.

1. You are a self-professed expert because you claimed you had expertise. Your words, not mine. Re-read your post. It's that simple.

2. Citing to your own self professed expertise, you attempted to assert a claim that anyone who has actually done rigorous research in the social sciences would be very, very skeptical about--that men from one extremely large heterogeneous group (Muslims) were more likely to be adulterous than men from another extremely large heterogeneous group (Americans).

3. You stuck to that claim when challenged on it, asserting you had even done some particular research in the relevant area that supported it.

4. You can cite no actual data to back it up and my cursory search of academic databases has come up empty looking for the same. In fact, every prominent paper I can find that is even tangentially related to the topic is so filled with caveats and notes about the inherently unreliable nature of self-reported data about something that is in many countries technically a crime (even while it is a socially accepted practice in certain forms, e.g., through prostitutes or mistresses, so long as those affairs adhere to certain cultural formalities), that it immediately strikes me as absurd for anyone (especially someone whose writing style evinces they likely have not completely a substantial thesis) to claim they have definitive evidence in the area. In short, I am 100% certain that the opinion you offered about infidelity does not meet the community standards here, and your continuing to assert it as fact only serves to misinform a group of people who are looking to this forum for reliable information about very serious life decisions.

I made a typo in point no. 2. Your claim, of course, was that Muslim men were less likely to be adulterous than American men. But the same criticism applies.

[Lornaevo 48]

Ok. I'm not trying to be a meanie. I'm also an immigrant. But if you decided the marriage isn't working out, then you shouldn't be using your husband for immigration benefits. It's wrong and illegal. If you can't or won't work on the marriage then divorce and move on.

[Gosia & Tito 199]

Thank you all for replies, both my kids are USC and we have joint assets and all kind of prove, I wasn't sure if the divorce he want to file can take weeks or months to be final, not familiar. At this point I am not scared to be deported if that will be the case but I wouldn't want him to remain with kids since he knows nothing about raising, only a provider and also issues with women can affect my kids. Hope for the best, will keep you posted. Also my kids don't have passport, I didn't apply.

Custody of children is a matter of the divorce, not in the immigration case. Divorce can take many months and even up to a year (it all depends in what state the divorce was/will be filed, in several states there is a wait period before a divorce proceeds. In some states there isn't).

Duration of divorce also depends on division of assets (as you note there are joint assets). As ugly as this would sound, Those assets might become leverage in the divorce case; unless an amicable agreement is drafted. They might even be used as leverage in relation to children custody.

You really need 2 attorneys: one for immigration and one for the divorce (to defend your financial and custody rights, unless an amicable agreement happens).

[erynaught 43]

Custody of children is a matter of the divorce, not in the immigration case. Divorce can take many months and even up to a year (it all depends in what state the divorce was/will be filed, in several states there is a wait period before a divorce proceeds. In some states there isn't).

Duration of divorce also depends on division of assets (as you note there are joint assets). As ugly as this would sound, Those assets might become leverage in the divorce case; unless an amicable agreement is drafted. They might even be used as leverage in relation to children custody.

You really need 2 attorneys: one for immigration and one for the divorce (to defend your financial and custody rights, unless an amicable agreement happens).

Agreed ... a divorce where child custody is contested could last for years. You should be looking for ways to leverage what you have/he wants to gain what you want in the end. You need to keep the end goal in mind. If it gets nasty, you will need to find a way to work diligently without letting your emotions/hurt/anger/fear getting in your way. You will need to consider 'hitting below the belt' during this process.

The advice on two attorneys is spot on. It's hard enough finding a good attorney to begin with, but a good attorney who can adequately represent you on both immigration and divorce is as close to impossible as it gets. If your resources are limited and you expect a fight over the kids, focus on a great divorce attorney first.

[erynaught 43]

Numbers of American men cheating are greater then the muslim and islamic cultures..

I don't know the numbers, but I doubt it is true.

However, it could be that public flogging/stoning to death of adulterers in muslim/islamic cultures is an effective deterrent.

[Vicki&Nanuka 12]

It's really sad that you are in this situation.Gather any and all documents that you have and seek the advice of a lawyer quickly. Both men and women have the potential to cheat.It doesn't matter where they are from cheaters exist, and there's no predicting who is a cheater or who will become a cheater.If a person wants something from you, they will always put their best foot forward.No one advertises "Cheater wanted"

[VanessaTony 3,567]

I'm so sorry to read this, I hope you are keeping strong. I am in the K1 process right now, and I thought I remembered reading something about what to do if your marriage terminates before your AOS. It sounds crazy to me that you would be FORCED to leave your children behind (particularly if you believe this would cause some hardship to them as you said he is not much of a care-giver) and what's more is that YOU married this guy in good faith and he cheated...so you have to be deported because he cheated??

I would DEFINITELY speak to a lawyer about not leaving the country - maybe you can get AOS by yourself given the circumstance and as there are children involved, or apply for a visa as a parent of a US citizen(s). If you left and then did this you may be parted from for a long time while it is processed. In England a marriage terminated on the grounds of infidelity puts the power in the hands of the complainee, and you are their mother and primary caregiver.

Maybe I have a bit of an uneducated opinion on how this works - but essentially my view is that this is not your fault, and you should not have to be separated from your kids and leave the country because of his cheating. I think you have a case to stay. Speak to a lawyer!

There is no abuse, and he doesn't "have" to let her stay. The whole point of it is to stop anchor babies. If parents of USC's (and a child is one simply by being born her) cannot be deported, that's why people have kids, to stay here.

Her children would need to petition for a visa for her but they can't do that until they're 21.

The OP has no choice. Either her husband continues with the process (which he is under no obligation to do because he would be signing up for her financial support if she uses means tested benefits), or she needs to leave the country. It is one of the scariest parts, for me, when thinking about having kids in an international relationship. No-one expects these things to happen. If something were to happen to Tony and I, I would prefer to return to Australia. If we had kids of course I'd want them to come with me, but that's not really fair to their dad is it?

[ValerieA 350]

Ok. I'm not trying to be a meanie. I'm also an immigrant. But if you decided the marriage isn't working out, then you shouldn't be using your husband for immigration benefits. It's wrong and illegal. If you can't or won't work on the marriage then divorce and move on.

You may not be trying to be mean, but really - in the OP's case, 'moving on' means leaving the country and possibly (likely, if the soon-to-be-ex-husband is vindictive) having to leave her children behind! I don't know anyone, male or female, that wouldn't move heaven and earth to prevent being separated from their children.

[Lex Specialis 38]

Absolutely kiss his a** and beg for forgiveness to work on your marriage until that interview, which should not be very long from now, and if you get approved (if you have two children with him, it should not be an issue as to the good faith of the marriage) you will get your conditional green card. Now, once you have your two year GC, you are in the driver's seat because you can self petition to receive the ten year GC without him if you can show that the marriage was entered into good faith. Having two kids with him helps, the fact that you lived together, and the fact that you can allege in the divorce papers (which you will file after your interview) that he had multiple affairs, or if your state doesn't support such filings in family court, you can submit an affidavit to the USCIS from you and mutual friends who know or will become aware by then of the affairs. Then you can get your 10 year green card and the only difference is instead of getting citizenship three years after you get your first green card, you will have to wait 5 years before you get it, probably a small price to pay to get out of that marriage.

But the options for you before that interview are very small if not non-existent. The options for you after the interview and after you get your green card are fairly reasonable. My advice is that you do for the sake of your kids everything you can, despite how difficult that may be over the next few weeks, to swallow your pride and stay in that marriage until the interview is aced, and after it arrives, to start preparing for your post-divorce life, including getting employment etc. I would then file for divorce, seeking alimony, child support etc. In the divorce papers if the family court forms allow, name the affairs and start the proceedings. Then, once you have income from a job and his child support coming in, get yourself a lawyer to help prepare your "removal of conditions" petition which will be due not earlier than 1 year and nine months after you get your green card but definitely no later than two years after the green card expires. Because you will only have one shot at it, and while I think on the facts that you have presented you have an excellent shot of getting approved, it is not a 100% shot and you want a professional to prepare it to avoid simple mistakes, you should get a lawyer and you will have over 18 months to get the money together.

Don't think I am unsympathetic to your situation. I stayed with my ex-wife for six months longer than I should have because she was physically abusive and threatened to call the police if I defended myself to tell them I hit her first. I am 8 inches taller and 80 pounds heavier and a man and I knew this was not an empty threat. I stayed and endured the abuse because I was dead broke back then and she made all the money and I couldn't afford to get out. Six months later, I got enough cash to get myself out of the country, sneaking out while she was at work. I snuck out to the airport from my own home with barely a suitcase packed and once I was on the plane my divorce lawyer called her to tell her the divorce papers had been filed. This way, if she called the cops I had an alibi that I was nowhere near her and would be able to convince the cops that the allegations were a retaliation for the divorce. It worked legally but it emotionally screwed me up for years. I told you this story because I don't want you to think that I am unsympathetic to marriage horrors and if there is no physical abuse in your relationship, pretending to love and want to stay married to a man who makes your skin crawl because he has slept with numerous other women is difficult, but if your interview is in a few weeks, it is doable. And it is to your advantage to be on the "let's make this work" train until then because your options open up after your GC is in your purse.

[Ban Hammer 13,545]

regarding previous posts just a bit ago - please stay on topic and focus on the op's question rather than taking aim at each other's posts, thus detracting from this thread's purpose. thank you.

[Cathi 5,784]

Absolutely kiss his a** and beg for forgiveness to work on your marriage until that interview, which should not be very long from now, and if you get approved (if you have two children with him, it should not be an issue as to the good faith of the marriage) you will get your conditional green card. Now, once you have your two year GC, you are in the driver's seat because you can self petition to receive the ten year GC without him if you can show that the marriage was entered into good faith. Having two kids with him helps, the fact that you lived together, and the fact that you can allege in the divorce papers (which you will file after your interview) that he had multiple affairs, or if your state doesn't support such filings in family court, you can submit an affidavit to the USCIS from you and mutual friends who know or will become aware by then of the affairs. Then you can get your 10 year green card and the only difference is instead of getting citizenship three years after you get your first green card, you will have to wait 5 years before you get it, probably a small price to pay to get out of that marriage.

But the options for you before that interview are very small if not non-existent. The options for you after the interview and after you get your green card are fairly reasonable. My advice is that you do for the sake of your kids everything you can, despite how difficult that may be over the next few weeks, to swallow your pride and stay in that marriage until the interview is aced, and after it arrives, to start preparing for your post-divorce life, including getting employment etc. I would then file for divorce, seeking alimony, child support etc. In the divorce papers if the family court forms allow, name the affairs and start the proceedings. Then, once you have income from a job and his child support coming in, get yourself a lawyer to help prepare your "removal of conditions" petition which will be due not earlier than 1 year and nine months after you get your green card but definitely no later than two years after the green card expires. Because you will only have one shot at it, and while I think on the facts that you have presented you have an excellent shot of getting approved, it is not a 100% shot and you want a professional to prepare it to avoid simple mistakes, you should get a lawyer and you will have over 18 months to get the money together.

Don't think I am unsympathetic to your situation. I stayed with my ex-wife for six months longer than I should have because she was physically abusive and threatened to call the police if I defended myself to tell them I hit her first. I am 8 inches taller and 80 pounds heavier and a man and I knew this was not an empty threat. I stayed and endured the abuse because I was dead broke back then and she made all the money and I couldn't afford to get out. Six months later, I got enough cash to get myself out of the country, sneaking out while she was at work. I snuck out to the airport from my own home with barely a suitcase packed and once I was on the plane my divorce lawyer called her to tell her the divorce papers had been filed. This way, if she called the cops I had an alibi that I was nowhere near her and would be able to convince the cops that the allegations were a retaliation for the divorce. It worked legally but it emotionally screwed me up for years. I told you this story because I don't want you to think that I am unsympathetic to marriage horrors and if there is no physical abuse in your relationship, pretending to love and want to stay married to a man who makes your skin crawl because he has slept with numerous other women is difficult, but if your interview is in a few weeks, it is doable. And it is to your advantage to be on the "let's make this work" train until then because your options open up after your GC is in your purse.

you are suggesting that she commit fraud in order to obtain immigration benefits. I will report this post.

[ValerieA 350]

@ Lex Specialis - I would be concerned about following your advice, based on the fact that during ROC, if it comes to light that the cheating happened BEFORE the green card interview, the OP and her (ex) husband could be in serious trouble for lying to USCIS to gain an immigration benefit. I think the timing of the whole thing is going to be a problem for the OP. I really wish there was some advice I could give that would magically help you, but this is a bad situation. Maybe try a consultation with either Lauren Scott (online) or find a highly recommended immigration lawyer in your area and see if you can get a free initial consultation with them.

[Lex Specialis 38]

Cheating having occurred before the AOS interview doesn't meant that the marriage wasn't real especially since it was the US citizen spouse, not the foreign national who committed such acts. They have children together, they are having trouble in their relationship, life goes on. And it's every spouse's right to end their divorce when they see fit.

To the OP, I hope these posts have given you an idea of the position that you find yourself in and the options that are available to you.