Do you always bring your Green Card with you?

[cartaverde 12]

The green card instructions indeed say quite clearly that you are supposed to carry it "on your person at all times". If I'm somewhere out where stuff like money or an ID would be benefit, then yes, I tend to have it with. Not if I'm just out for a run or a walk and within minutes from home.

The SS card instead tells to not carry it with you in your wallet.

So I don't. I also don't remember my SS number, so if I'll need that for something, I'll have to find it home and get back to it. So far in the past few years the places that have tried to ask for my SSN include more or less doctors or hospitals, and I see no reason for them to have it. If the issue I go consult one is covered by private health insurance, there's zero need for them to have the SSN.

[Glenn & Anne 16]

I drive a big truck for a living and my future wife will be traveling with me. When in the southwestern states near the Mexican border you have to stop and go thru a border patrol checkpoint. These are border patrol officers and I assume they can ask you your immigration status. They always ask if you ar a USC. I am thinking that she will meed tobhave her GC on her at all tomes since we will be traveling the country, not have it locked in a safety deposit box. Anyone else have experiences with botder patrol officers and checkpoints?

[Caryh 5,206]

I drive a big truck for a living and my future wife will be traveling with me. When in the southwestern states near the Mexican border you have to stop and go thru a border patrol checkpoint. These are border patrol officers and I assume they can ask you your immigration status. They always ask if you ar a USC. I am thinking that she will meed tobhave her GC on her at all tomes since we will be traveling the country, not have it locked in a safety deposit box. Anyone else have experiences with botder patrol officers and checkpoints?

That is a case where she's going to be needing it, I've heard. We don't have those checkpoints up here in the great white north, so its not an issue with us.

[Caryh 5,206]

I drive a big truck for a living and my future wife will be traveling with me. When in the southwestern states near the Mexican border you have to stop and go thru a border patrol checkpoint. These are border patrol officers and I assume they can ask you your immigration status. They always ask if you ar a USC. I am thinking that she will meed tobhave her GC on her at all tomes since we will be traveling the country, not have it locked in a safety deposit box. Anyone else have experiences with botder patrol officers and checkpoints?

Ah here's a link to give you an idea why she should have it with her.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Border_Patrol_Interior_Checkpoints

[Hypnos 6,576]

The law is quite clear about everyone needing to carry their green card.

If you choose not to do that then the consequences are on your own head.

[TBoneTX 44,925]

Anyone else have experiences with border patrol officers and checkpoints?

Most of them, on the Tex-Mex border and inland.

Although some agents are professional, assume that most will be in foul temper and will be looking to nail somebody. Simply assume it.

She'd better have her green card in hand and ready to present to the CBP immediately. They'll scan it and return it, sometimes with thanks or "have a nice day." (Note: Copies of green cards are 100% unacceptable. See what Hypnos wrote, just above.)

Here is an excellent first-person treatise about one checkpoint (which I have also sadly been through) from the editrix of The Big Bend Gazette:

---

Summer Fun: Exercising My Civil Rights

Publish Date: July 20, 2007

by Marlys Hersey, Editor

A few months ago, I hit that point where I just couldn't do it anymore: I just can't answer every dumb or out-of-line question posed to me at the Border Patrol checkpoint, just to get through in as little time as possible. I can't smile and pretend that I don't know they're violating my civil rights. Not every week.

Not even occasionally.

Maybe some of you don't go through the checkpoints on a regular basis? Or maybe you just don't get harassed by the perhaps well-intentioned, but ill-informed (or just plain gleefully annoying) agents and their tactics.

Lucky you.

Maybe it's a cumulative affect of nearly 4 years of dealing with the harassment since I moved here?

I should say that I am willing to take some responsibility for the bad dynamics.

Like there was that one time when we drank all that coffee from my friend's new espresso maker right before I left Terlingua to head north. I was definitely a little more amped than usual.

Or that other time, I was aggravated from listening to a radio talk show right before I got to the checkpoint, enduring some sanctimonious woman spout why women shouldn't ever have the right to have an abortion, no matter what. I could feel my heart racing like I was watching a horror film, and I thought Maybe it's time for the spa channel these last few miles before the border patrol station, Marlys....

Maybe it's because I've been reading Smokey Briggs' columns for The Gazette every month for the past couple of years?

In the last week, there's not even a maybe about it: I was definitely a little edgier than usual since hearing that Vice President ####### Cheney is claiming that his office is "not really part of the Bush administration," and therefore has every right to block efforts by the National Archives' Information Security Oversight Office to conduct a mandatory on-site inspection of the vice president's office. (And get this; now even President Bush is claiming somesuch exception to the rule! I'm not making this up - go online and search LA or NY Times, for starters.) Did the 21st Century just get officially declared the Century of Self-Parody while I was on vacation? Am I missing something?

Anyway, when the Vice President refuses to cooperate with the National Archives' Information Security Oversight Office, yeah, I get a little testy about being expected to answer questions about little old me in the name of "national security."

Now, before I get into any details of my stories, let me back up. I am no angry teenager looking to rebel against authority just for the fun of it. I am also not a conspiracy theorist. Nor do I have any particular distaste for federal agents on the whole, nor law enforcement: I've been a federal employee multiple times, once in the law enforcement division.

To boot, I am always extremely polite to every "US Customs and Border Protection" agent - at least at the start of each interaction. (Heads up: technically it's not the Border Patrol anymore, since that agency merged with U.S. Customs to form this new amalgam, under the Dept. of Homeland Security; and CBP's motto is "Securing America's Borders.").

I am always patently aware that these agents are just my fellow human beings trying to make a living.

God knows I have had enough jobs in which I had to be the frontperson for a big, ugly bureaucracy with some really stupid practices and policies [in my world, the phrase "I don't make the rules, sir. I'm just doing my job" will cease to exist. When that happens, the corporation or agency or whatever the hell it is clearly just too big to be good. When individuals are not permitted to make independent decisions based on the situation at hand, then usually stupidity, irresponsibility, disrespect, and injustices abound.].

I've also had the jobs in which although I wasn't working for a behemoth, I did something equally awful and immoral for the sake of earning my wages, such as trying to get homeowners who didn't know better than to answer the phone during dinner to agree to let some greasy guys come out and spray carcinogens all over their yard to have the greenest possible outdoor carpet/lawn.

And I've had to wait on aggressive people in plenty of pubs & restaurants.

My point is: I know what it's like to be the 'bot in the uniform. The helpless frontperson. The federal agent.

The fellow human being just trying to make a living.

True, under the guise of work, I haven't been expected to talk with potentially desparate drug smugglers in the middle of the night. Oh, wait - I've worked the drive-thru on the night shift at a fast-food joint, so I take that back.

You're right, though: I have not worked in the a well-lit-to-the-point-of-glowing building in the middle of rural West Texas some 50 miles or so from the border with a "third world" country. I know that adds many layers of challenges and weirdness.

And I know the CBP agents can't undo the mess we're in or the mandates they're given.

My beef is this: to all you CBP agents, I demand: don't treat me or anyone else like a criminal right off the bat, and don't ask me things that you shouldn't be asking me, especially not with that chip on your shoulder like this is your country more than it is mine.

To wit, do not ask me:

1. Where I am going.

2. Where I have been.

3. Where I live.

4. How long I have lived there.

5. Why I am out so late at night.

6. If I have been in the [national] park. (That's always asked in this tone, like Have you been shooting heroin?)

7. If I have seen anything "suspicious." (That's your job, pal. Get your boss to cut you free from the booth and do some reconnaissance.)

8. Do I mind if you "use the dogs." (Of course I mind. So do the poor dogs - what a wretched life they must have, being kept on a short leash, sucking exhaust fumes, scratching at the sides of cars & trucks.)

9. "You been to Mexico?" (Perhaps I'm too literal, but really, what kind of silly question is this for someone in the Big Bend, and Terlingua in particular? You could at least be more specific - like, do you mean today? In the past week? Since when?)

Actually, upon reviewing Patricia Kerns' "Civil Rights Primer" (see next article), I guess the CBP agents can ask me anything they want, really. Never hurts to try - to trip us up, see if we're nervous, see if we seem to be lying or hiding something.

So then more precisely, when I choose to exercise my intelligence and I know my rights and refuse to answer your questions, don't treat me like a criminal.

Several times in the past few months, for example, after their first question to me is "Are you a US citizen?" [Yes], the second question is "So, you live down South?" or "Why are you out so late at night?" I have responded with "I don't need to answer that." Instead of them realizing I'm right, they launch into several more insipid questions, to which I respond the same way "Nah, I'm not going to answer that, either."

I don't know if there's a batch of new hires or if in training the agents, the CBP has a question of the month, but lately I've suddenly been getting this new one, from several different agents: "Well, ma'am, the reason I ask is that I see your car was registered in a foreign county." (Their emphasis, not mine.)

Foreign county?

I bought my used car in San Antonio last fall, and in Texas, the registration (& license plates), if they're still valid, transfer to the new owner.

You'd think they'd know that.

Apparently there's something on one of those windshield stickers on my car that indicates that this car wasn't originally registered in Brewster County.

So what? What does this have to do with illegal immigration?

Again, I blame it on bad training and individuals "just doing my job, ma'am."

But that's no excuse.

I am a US citizen, and I am not doing anything illegal.

Which I have mentioned to several agents during such exchanges.

To which one responded "Yeah, but anyone can say they're a citizen. What if you're not?"

Aha! But you see, I am a US citizen, and I am not doing anything illegal. Isn't that what they're there to figure out? And when it's determined that I pass, why is it presumed I might be lying? At what point do we end the charade, stop the attempted interrogation, stop the condescension, and let me go?

If they want to know if I'm a US citizen, why not just ask me for some definitive identification and be done with it?

What that agent's snide comment reveals is that we have come to this: even though I am a citizen, and not breaking any laws, I am treated with doubt, suspicion, and I am harassed - for being a law-abiding citizen in my own country, who's helping pay the agent's salary.

The last acrimonious exchange we had at the station south of Alpine resulted in us demanding the agent call his supervisor out of the station (to which he first responded that "There's no supervisor here;" upon pressing further, we learned that not true).

The supervisor, when asked if we were free to leave, said the problem was that, in essence, "your behavior fits the profile of people who are smuggling drugs."

What nonsense, I argued. "If I were smuggling drugs, why would I draw more attention to myself and risk getting delayed here?"

I have since learned from a local lawyer that the supervisor's claim was also patently false, as none of the 38 cases reviewed in which suspects are taken into custody via the CBP agents there includes suspects arguing with agents as we were.

Another oddity: the first agent and his supervisor maintained that the receipt taped to our windshield that indicated we'd visited Big Bend National Park that week "says to us that you're from out of the area."

Again, nonsense. All that receipt indicates is that I, like everyone else who goes into the park when the entrance station is open, paid an entrance fee. How can agents working so near the park not be made aware of that? Or are they just testing me?

And even if I was from "out of the area," so what? (Brewster County Tourism Council, anyone?)

During this same interchange, the first agent also asked if we'd "mind" if he "used the dogs" to inspect our vehicle, and when we declined to allow this, he told us we might have to pull over and be detained; that's when we asked for his supervisor. When we shared this tidbit with his supervisor, the supervisor responded with "I don't know why he'd say that: we don't even have the dogs here tonight."

Meantime, we were surrounded by about 6 CBP agents staring us down, while the supervisor spoke with us, several times suggesting we just needed "to be more polite. Politeness goes a long way."

(Recently, after another unpleasant albeit brief exchange at the CBP station south of Alpine, we were pulled over around 2:15 a.m. just south of Alpine by a DPS agent for having license plate lights out, and then harassed for about 10 minutes until it was abundantly clear to the agent that we were in fact, totally sober and had no open containers of alcohol, just like we said right from the start and during each of the subsequent three to four repeats of those questions.)

Maybe the law enforcement folks expect that we're lying because they do it so often themselves.

Really, what good does this serve? I don't know what the CBP agents come away thinking, but I know I feel even more violated, angry, and uncooperative - INsecure, in fact, despite the agency's mission statement/motto.

Yes, I know the agency uncovers a lot of drugs being smuggled into the US; I get weekly press releases from the CBP.

That these tactics work to sift out some illegal immigration and some illegal drug trade does not in any way justify me or any of us being harassed in, and expected to act stupid, in our own country.

On a recent vacation in Florida, a family member asked us what we thought of immigration reform and the proposed fence along the US border with Mexico. My husband and publisher of The Gazette, John, made a very salient point: "I don't know that this is likely to be resolved anytime soon...I do know that the enthusiasm for the notion of a border fence and border enforcement in general increases greatly the farther one gets from the border."

Funny how that is.

And when we share stories with friends and families who are unfamiliar with being harassed by agents of their own government on a regular basis for merely driving to the grocery store, they are somewhat incredulous. Aghast, even.

This doesn't sound like the land of the free to them. It sounds like a police state.

Edited April 24, 2013 by TBoneTX

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

My wife has never been asked for her green card, except by her employer when she started. Then she brought it in just on that day. If there is a need where the original is needed, we bring it with. Otherwise it stays home and the copy is carried. If something should ever happen where they needed to see the original, I would go get it at home and bring it. At $450 and lord knows how many months to replace, its going to stay where its safe.

I always think it is unusual how people do what they shouldn't with their green cards.

Most people don't carry them, even though they should. They feel the way you do. They don't carry the card because it is expensive to replace. Or that they don't need it as a form of ID because they have a driver's license.

But then, when an employer asks to see the card, people willingly go home and get it.

So if you feel that a driver's license is "good enough" ID, why isn't it good enough for these employers?

Everybody is either ignorant of the law, or ignores it.

[Caryh 5,206]

There are a ton of laws that are not followed by people every day. There are laws on the books that are never or have rarely ever been enforced. The president of the firm I work for has been a legal permanent resident for over 30 years. The only time he's ever needed his green card is when he's returning to the country after travelling. An employer can't hire you today without proof you're OK to work in this country, and that is an SS card and a green card if you're not a citizen. Once you get your SS card updated and the note about needing approval to work removed, you probably don't even need your green card.

I know people have been detained near the Mexican border for failure to carry the green card, but there are no check points in the northern states, and hardly any ICE activity period. But if its such a huge issued with DHS, where are all these cases of people being fined for not carrying a green card? Go ahead search, because they're just not there. Unless you're living or traveling near the Mexican border, or leaving the country there is no need because no one is looking for it. Now if you worked at a company that was known for hiring illegals, now you'd be advised to keep your's on you, because ICE just might show up and you don't want the hassle of being detained until a family member can bring the card down for you. And you know what, still no one is going to take you to Federal Court and spend that kind of money on a court case to fine you $100.

I always think it is unusual how people do what they shouldn't with their green cards.

Most people don't carry them, even though they should. They feel the way you do. They don't carry the card because it is expensive to replace. Or that they don't need it as a form of ID because they have a driver's license.

But then, when an employer asks to see the card, people willingly go home and get it.

So if you feel that a driver's license is "good enough" ID, why isn't it good enough for these employers?

Everybody is either ignorant of the law, or ignores it.

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

An employer can't hire you today without proof you're OK to work in this country, and that is an SS card and a green card if you're not a citizen.

This is not true, study the I-9.

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

There are a ton of laws that are not followed by people every day. There are laws on the books that are never or have rarely ever been enforced. The president of the firm I work for has been a legal permanent resident for over 30 years. The only time he's ever needed his green card is when he's returning to the country after travelling. An employer can't hire you today without proof you're OK to work in this country, and that is an SS card and a green card if you're not a citizen. Once you get your SS card updated and the note about needing approval to work removed, you probably don't even need your green card.

I know people have been detained near the Mexican border for failure to carry the green card, but there are no check points in the northern states, and hardly any ICE activity period. But if its such a huge issued with DHS, where are all these cases of people being fined for not carrying a green card? Go ahead search, because they're just not there. Unless you're living or traveling near the Mexican border, or leaving the country there is no need because no one is looking for it. Now if you worked at a company that was known for hiring illegals, now you'd be advised to keep your's on you, because ICE just might show up and you don't want the hassle of being detained until a family member can bring the card down for you. And you know what, still no one is going to take you to Federal Court and spend that kind of money on a court case to fine you $100.

*hands up*

Hey, It's ok. I understand. I've heard it all before. Really.

My husband had to wait a really long time to get his card. Back when his AOS was processed it took ages for cards to come. His took 18 months.

Plus (being an old hippie) I've got some fairly keen opinions about how my immigrant husband should be treated in this country.

There is a woman I work with who says that an American passport is the most valuable document in the world - that people die to get one. She's speaking dramatically but quite on point about how many people in the world would die to come to America. I'm not a flag waving patriot, but I still realize that my husband was privileged to be granted residency by my country. I know the US expects certain things from people they grant that privilege to. One of those things is that proof of legal status be carried. For my husband and I, it's just that simple. It's a simple thing he can do to keep up his end of the bargain.

I know how frustrated my husband was while he waited for the card to come. He couldn't get a drivers license that didn't have a "short date" on it. He couldn't get the restricitions lifted off his Social Security card. All the time, having to hassle to "prove" to employers that he was legal. Without the card, he couldn't even get documents that you and I possess. It was a great relief to finally be able to get a "normal" driver's license and social security card.

I don't like it when employers ask immigrants to prove their status by showing the card. And I don't like it because the immigrant usually only gets asked the question because they look or sound foreign born. Has an employer ever asked you for proof you are legal? I notice you are white (like me). No one has ever asked me. It's wrong for employers to ask, especially just because someone looks or sounds different. That is why it is illegal for them to ask.

Because your wife is legal, she has a RIGHT not to be asked those questions. Because she was granted the PRIVILEGE of residency. It's her RESPONSIBILITY to be able to prove her residency to LAW ENFORCEMENT. Employers should not be asking about residency. Their only concern should be work authorization. Work authorization can be proved with a driver's license and unrestricted SS card.

See?

Edited April 24, 2013 by Rebecca Jo

[Nica_In_Love 98]

I always think it is unusual how people do what they shouldn't with their green cards.

Most people don't carry them, even though they should. They feel the way you do. They don't carry the card because it is expensive to replace. Or that they don't need it as a form of ID because they have a driver's license.

But then, when an employer asks to see the card, people willingly go home and get it.

So if you feel that a driver's license is "good enough" ID, why isn't it good enough for these employers?

Everybody is either ignorant of the law, or ignores it.

When I was hired all they asked for was my driver's license and social security card. I offered my GC and they said it wasn't necessary. Ignorance? I don't know, but I assume there are ways of running the social security number to verify if an individual is allowed to work or not in the U.S.

[scotinmass 588]

The company I work for has a lot of defense contracts. They can only employ US citizens or legal permanent residents. I had to fill out a form stating that I was in the country legally and that I had authorization to work. My employer had to be satisfied that I was legal so they asked to see my green card to get my alien registration number from it.

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

The company I work for has a lot of defense contracts. They can only employ US citizens or legal permanent residents. I had to fill out a form stating that I was in the country legally and that I had authorization to work. My employer had to be satisfied that I was legal so they asked to see my green card to get my alien registration number from it.

They don't need your A number. It's none of their business.

Really, it isn't.

http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=439a7f5c13f2e210VgnVCM100000082ca60aRCRD&vgnextchannel=439a7f5c13f2e210VgnVCM100000082ca60aRCRD

Employers must treat employees in a non-discriminatory manner when recruiting, hiring, firing, and verifying their identity and authorization to work on Form I-9.

Your employer MAY NOT:

• Demand that you show specific documents because of your national origin, ethnicity, immigration or citizenship status, race, color, religion, age, gender or disability, or because of any other protected characteristic. For example, your employer may not:
  • Request that you show a document issued by the Department of Homeland Security because you are not a U.S. citizen.
  • Require U.S. passports from new employees who “sound foreign” and claim U.S. citizenship.

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

When I was hired all they asked for was my driver's license and social security card. I offered my GC and they said it wasn't necessary. Ignorance? I don't know, but I assume there are ways of running the social security number to verify if an individual is allowed to work or not in the U.S.

Your employer shouldn't have asked you for any specific documents.

But - asking for a driver's license and SS card from EVERYONE is better than asking "suspected aliens" for "special papers".

I have a tendency to get up on my soap box about this. I don't ever mean for it to sound like I am putting readers down. I get snarky because it makes me mad.

My husband and I paid good money to get him here legally. We followed all the rules of the US government. I get PI$$ED when "lower mortals" (that means any entity of lower rank than the government) questions my husband's status. First of all, why are they questioning it? Just so you know, he's as white as a bag of flour. Oh now I get it. He just opened his mouth and that lyrical sound came out. So now..........where did he come from? And how did he get here?

NO ONE has any RIGHT - at all - to question my husband just because he sounds different. Or question any person just because they are brown, or any other lovely shade. Or because they sound a bit different. Or because their English is broken. That kind of nonsense went out with President Johnson.

I want readers here to claim their rights. You have bought and paid for them.

[apple21 953]

Your employer shouldn't have asked you for any specific documents.

But - asking for a driver's license and SS card from EVERYONE is better than asking "suspected aliens" for "special papers".

I have a tendency to get up on my soap box about this. I don't ever mean for it to sound like I am putting readers down. I get snarky because it makes me mad.

My husband and I paid good money to get him here legally. We followed all the rules of the US government. I get PI$$ED when "lower mortals" (that means any entity of lower rank than the government) questions my husband's status. First of all, why are they questioning it? Just so you know, he's as white as a bag of flour. Oh now I get it. He just opened his mouth and that lyrical sound came out. So now..........where did he come from? And how did he get here?

NO ONE has any RIGHT - at all - to question my husband just because he sounds different. Or question any person just because they are brown, or any other lovely shade. Or because they sound a bit different. Or because their English is broken. That kind of nonsense went out with President Johnson.

I want readers here to claim their rights. You have bought and paid for them.

But isn't that the purpose of the Green Card? To prove once and for all that you are a legal permanent resident of the USA?

Yeah, its degrading when people assume you're an illegal alien but it's more gratifying to prove them wrong.