Israeli Forces Attempt to Stop Palestinian Solidarity Walk

[ready4ONE 5,400]

Fair enough.

[OriZ 3,157]

Ahmed al-Jaafari, a 43-year-old Deheishe refugee camp resident, stands opposite the list of Jews who were sent to the Sobibor death camp. At a certain point, he turns to the guide, Roee Hanani, and asks "why did they keep such an organized list if they planned on killing them all along?" Hanani replied him in Arabic "the Nazis were very organized. They believed that they were solving a world problem and wanted to take pride in what they did."

As part of a unique "Combatants for Peace" trip to Yad Vashem, eight Palestinian Authority residents visited the museum to learn of the fates of European Jews during the Holocaust. "This was a jolting experience for me," said al-Jaafari. "I saw the reactions of people who were here and wanted to experience it for myself. I heard and read about and saw movies on the Holocaust, but nothing comes close to a visit in which I can see it with my own eyes. I don't understand how the world conspired a crime like this."

Palestinians visit Yad Vashem (Photo: Gil Yohanan)

Al-Jaafari continued by making a few comments with which Jews can identify, but likely to cause Palestinians to become irate. "When you look at the background of the Jewish nation, you can try to understand your anxiety and fears. A nation that went through something like this cannot live without scars. I don't agree with the comparison between the Holocaust and the situation in the territories, and people who make this comparison make it out of pain and anger."

"Combatants for Peace" was established by a group of Israelis and Palestinians who participated in what they call the "circle of violence" in the region," and have now abandoned their weapons in favor of peace and coexistence.

However, not all the Palestinians who registered for the tour, made it to Yad Vashem. This is due to the difficulties they had attaining entrance visas into Israel.

No Arab Righteous Gentiles

Upon arrival to the station dedicated to the Righteous Gentiles, Hanani told the participants about a devout Muslim couple that hid the Jewish Habilio family in their home in Sarajevo. The couple also took the father in, who managed to escape a labor camp. The Habilio family immigrated to Israel in 1984 and turned to Yad Vashem; bringing recognition to the Hardega family as Righteous Gentiles.

The story did not end there. During the civil war which saw the collapse of Yugoslavia in the 1990s, Sarajevo was under massive attack. Yad Vashem and the Joint Distribution Committee brought Zaynba Hardega to Israel with her daughter, son-in-law and granddaughter. Zayba has since passed away, but the rest of the family still lives in Jerusalem.

Hanani explained to the group that there are still no Arab Righteous Gentiles, but the relevant committee is currently discussing a few cases in which North African citizens saved Jews during World War II.

"I began taking an interest in the Holocaust 20 years ago when I saw the movie 'Schindler's List,' said Bassam Aramin, who organized the tour on the Palestinian side. "Since then, I have seen it four times."

"Less than a month ago I was at the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington. When you arrive at a place like this, you forget who you are. This is a tragedy that cannot be described in words."

Some five years ago, Aramin's 10-year-old daughter was killed by an IDF rubber bullet. When he hears comparisons being made between the territories and the European Holocaust, he becomes indignant.

"This is a big mistake. These are very different things. As a person who lives under occupation, I surely can identify with feeling like a refugee – humiliated, weak, lost – but the tragedy of the Holocaust is very different," said Aramin.

Nabil, another participant, said that he didn't think twice about joining the tour. "As soon as I was called I said I was coming. I heard a lot about the Holocaust and wanted to see Yad Vashem with my own eyes. I am not afraid of reactions from the Palestinian side. I think that everyone needs to come here and see it with their own eyes."

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4363898,00.html

and lets not forget about the 30,000 or so Jewish deaths in this conflict. Doubt the Nazis had 1/3 the deaths of their victims. When you take into account that not every Palestinian casualty is an innocent civilian, the disparity is even narrower.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4363898,00.html

and lets not forget about the 30,000 or so Jewish deaths in this conflict. Doubt the Nazis had 1/3 the deaths of their victims. When you take into account that not every Palestinian casualty is an innocent civilian, the disparity is even narrower.

OriZ - try reading the whole thread before you comment. Nobody here said the Palestinian-Israeli conflict is the same as the Holocaust. We pointed out some parallels between certain policies, but nobody said Israel was committing a genocide.

And in fact, the Nazis took some pretty heavy losses - in the final toll, they are estimated to have had between 3.56 million and 5.1 million military casualties.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_casualties_in_World_War_II

One day, people will be visiting the Nakba Museum. I hope you will be one of them.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

and lets not forget about the 30,000 or so Jewish deaths in this conflict. Doubt the Nazis had 1/3 the deaths of their victims. When you take into account that not every Palestinian casualty is an innocent civilian, the disparity is even narrower.

I should also point out that in quibbling with the numbers, you neglected to acknowledge that not every Jewish casualty in the Palestinian-Israeli conflict was an "innocent civilian," either - quite a few of them were combatants.

More about your casualty figures:

The Jewish Virtual Library claims about 25,000 Jewish deaths (24,526 to be precise) in the "Arab-Israeli conflict" during the entire period between 1920 and 2012.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/casualtiestotal.html

However, if you read the notes at the bottom of the page, you see that this number includes thousands of casualties from Israel's wars with Egypt, Syria, Jordan and Lebanon, who were not killed by Palestinians - as well as Jews killed by British Mandate forces.

So, at least according to the JVL, the number of Jews killed by Palestinians is much lower than your figure of 30,000. Do you have a source for your number ? Keeping in mind that the JVL is quite sympathetic to the Israeli and the Zionist narrative, I would not consider their 25,000 number for "all Jewish casualties" in all of Israel's conflicts to be an under-count; if anything, the actual figure might be lower. Accordingly, the number of "Arabs" killed might actually be higher than the JVL's estimate.

Note that the JVL does not break down these numbers into civilian versus combatant deaths. Being a Zio-centric organization, it does make sure to tally up victims of "Palestinian terrorism;" however, it does not bother to give any estimate of the number of Palestinian victims of "Jewish terrorism," perpetrated by groups like the Irgun, the Stern Gang, and the Haganah.

Edited April 4, 2013 by wife_of_mahmoud

[OriZ 3,157]

Of course I wasn't talking about German military casualties, I know history a little better than that. I specifically wrote by their victims meaning the right comparison in this case would be how many Germans died by the hands of Jews in the camps?

Also, YOU might not be saying Israel is committing genocide. Some people actually do, including on this forum.

And I will not make the comparison between a soldier fighting a military war cause he has to, and say he is as non innocent as a terrorist who wanted to kill non combatants, not the same to me sorry...

Also, I don't remember nor do I think even the website knows the exact number which is why I said or so cause I remember it being close to there...but I was talking about the Arab-Israeli conflict, it's all part of the same conflict(you're the one who said the Arab armies were trying to defend the Palestinians) even if they didn't all die by the hands of the Palestinians specifically.

Edited April 6, 2013 by OriZ

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Of course I wasn't talking about German military casualties, I know history a little better than that. I specifically wrote by their victims meaning the right comparison in this case would be how many Germans died by the hands of Jews in the camps?

Well, this is what you "specifically" wrote:

and lets not forget about the 30,000 or so Jewish deaths in this conflict. Doubt the Nazis had 1/3 the deaths of their victims.

So I responded to exactly the parameter you set up: how many deaths of Nazis. And not all of the victims of Nazis were Jewish - as least half of their victims and very likely more were not Jewish.

But if you meant to say: how many Nazis were killed specifically by Jews - well, it's hard to determine a total number, but there are certainly accounts of thousands of Nazis and their collaborators (or accused Nazis and accused collaborators) being killed by Jewish resistance groups.

You have to understand that not all Jewish resistance occurred in the camps - in fact, that was the most difficult place to resist. Most of the Jewish resistance operated outside the camps - in Germany as well as in France, Belgium, the Netherlands, Algeria, etc. They carried out many operations to kill German troops and collaborators. And these killings even continued after the war - don't forget the Nokmim.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_resistance_under_Nazi_rule

Also, YOU might not be saying Israel is committing genocide. Some people actually do, including on this forum.

Then by all means respond to those people directly in the threads where they say it, and stop trying to derail this thread with stuff nobody in here said.

And I will not make the comparison between a soldier fighting a military war cause he has to, and say he is as non innocent as a terrorist who wanted to kill non combatants, not the same to me sorry...

It’s an interesting dichotomy. You perceive that Israeli soldiers are fighting “because they have to.” Apparently, this basic urgent need includes having to ethnically cleanse hundreds of thousands of people from their homes and seize their property, prevent them from returning to their own land, oppressing millions more for decades under a brutal military occupation so that more of their property can be seized, and all the while transferring your own population into that stolen land - in some cases, even into the very same houses once they've been "cleansed" of Palestinians !

It's all glossed over as a matter of “necessity,” so therefore it must excuse any brutality and war crimes on the part of Israelis. There - nice and neat and no need to worry your pretty little head about any of it.

But of course, this indulgence is reserved only for Zionist Jews. No one who happens to have the misfortune of being a non-Jew born and trying to live life in a land that Zionist expansionists covet could ever deserve such a right to use force to defend themselves. It's their job just to shut up and take it, right ?

Poor little Israel. Being an oppressor-victim is such a tough life.

Also, I don't remember nor do I think even the website knows the exact number which is why I said or so cause I remember it being close to there...but I was talking about the Arab-Israeli conflict, it's all part of the same conflict(you're the one who said the Arab armies were trying to defend the Palestinians) even if they didn't all die by the hands of the Palestinians specifically.

So you can’t provide a source for your 30,000 claim ? That’s what I suspected. So we are left with the JVP's figure, which upon careful review claims significantly fewer than even 20,000.

I realize that English is not your first language, but I was very clear in my comments about which war involved Arab countries trying to "defend Palestinians" - this was the war of 1948, when Arab countries launched a very weak attempt to try to stop your government’s ongoing ethnic cleansing operation.

You now have made the strange leap of applying that comment to every single other conflict Israel has gotten into with Arab countries. That’s not what I said, nor is it the historical record.

Arab countries’ involvement in subsequent wars with Israel were not over “defending Palestinians,” but rather trying to defend and recover their own sovereign territory which Israel had attacked, invaded and attempted to annex - the Syrian Golan Heights, the Egyptian Sinai, and the Lebanese Shebaa Farms.

This sort of blurring of the facts is part and parcel of the Zionist narrative. According to Zionism, all the Jews of the world are part of a single nation (which Zionism purports to manifest in the State of Israel.) The flip-side of this ideology requires perceiving all Arabs as part of a single nation, as well - as if everything that Palestinians or Morocco or Iraq or Egypt or Syria or Jordan or Saudi Arabia do is all part of some universal mission of the Arab national collective (as the fairy tale goes) to “drive Jews into the sea.” This of course is deliberate - it’s designed to feed the racism and xenophobia that form the very foundation of Zionism, and then project that hatred onto The Arabs. “‘Cause they’re all out to getcha !”

Cuckoo for cocoa-puffs. That’s what Zionism is, and it has enslaved millions of Jews in its hideous perversion of Judaic values.

But the truth will make you free.

[Tuco reminder 32]

Dear participants,

Please give me seconds of your time to read these lines,

Well. Killing a human being is something really bad, nobody dares to object, it is a soul being wasted in vain, while it can draw a smile on someone’s face… or produce something that can make someone’s life better.

But I will tell you about my experience, once we lost our house and land; we lived in many many countries in our quest to find tranquility. We managed to do for a while. But suddenly when you saw an Israeli official, a spokesman of a certain Israeli administration, speaks from your house, which you came to know that your house was turned to be the headquarter of that certain administration… how would you feel?

Ironically, that smart man mentions one fact; we came to a land with no people, while the house is 200 years old.

Again, killing someone is something disgusting, whether in a Holoca.... or in the surrounded and locked 55 square kilometers bombed with a white phosphorus “JELLYFISH”, internationally prohibited….

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Dear participants,

Please give me seconds of your time to read these lines,

Well. Killing a human being is something really bad, nobody dares to object, it is a soul being wasted in vain, while it can draw a smile on someone’s face… or produce something that can make someone’s life better.

But I will tell you about my experience, once we lost our house and land; we lived in many many countries in our quest to find tranquility. We managed to do for a while. But suddenly when you saw an Israeli official, a spokesman of a certain Israeli administration, speaks from your house, which you came to know that your house was turned to be the headquarter of that certain administration… how would you feel?

Ironically, that smart man mentions one fact; we came to a land with no people, while the house is 200 years old.

Again, killing someone is something disgusting, whether in a Holoca.... or in the surrounded and locked 55 square kilometers bombed with a white phosphorus “JELLYFISH”, internationally prohibited….

Welcome to the thread

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I don't know how old you are, but your story is also the story of my family, in 1948 and after.

Dear participants,

Please give me seconds of your time to read these lines,

Well. Killing a human being is something really bad, nobody dares to object, it is a soul being wasted in vain, while it can draw a smile on someone’s face… or produce something that can make someone’s life better.

But I will tell you about my experience, once we lost our house and land; we lived in many many countries in our quest to find tranquility. We managed to do for a while. But suddenly when you saw an Israeli official, a spokesman of a certain Israeli administration, speaks from your house, which you came to know that your house was turned to be the headquarter of that certain administration… how would you feel?

Ironically, that smart man mentions one fact; we came to a land with no people, while the house is 200 years old.

Again, killing someone is something disgusting, whether in a Holoca.... or in the surrounded and locked 55 square kilometers bombed with a white phosphorus “JELLYFISH”, internationally prohibited….

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

I don't know how old you are, but your story is also the story of my family, in 1948 and after.

Hai Sofi... long time no see

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Hai Sofi... long time no see

Hey, sis. Sometimes I lurk, sometimes I post.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

Hey, sis. Sometimes I lurk, sometimes I post.

Post more, lurk less. Please!

[Tuco reminder 32]

I am 35 years old.

Relatively young comparing to the stories I have witnessed myself, or met their eyewitnesses and finally covered because of my job nature as a news editor…

Add the successive important occasions in my region

It seems that I get attracted to such incidents, or they get attracted to me… I do not know.

[JstaRebel 48]

I am 35 years old.

Relatively young comparing to the stories I have witnessed myself, or met their eyewitnesses and finally covered because of my job nature as a news editor…

Add the successive important occasions in my region

It seems that I get attracted to such incidents, or they get attracted to me… I do not know.

I would very much like to hear (read) some of your stories sometime. whether some people are attracted to incidents, or the incidents are attracted to the person is the same. The fact is that some peoples lives are devine destinies.

[Tuco reminder 32]

today in history april 9

The Deir Yassin massacre took place on April 9, 1948, when around 120 fighters from the Irgun Zevai Leumi and Lohamei Herut Israel Zionist paramilitary groups attacked Deir Yassin near Jerusalem, a Palestinian-Arab village of roughly 600 civilians. The assault occurred as Jewish militia sought to relieve the blockade of Jerusalem by Palestinian forces during the civil war that preceded the end of British rule in Palestine.[1]Around 107 villagers were killed during and after the battle for the village, including women and children—some were shot, while others died when hand grenades were thrown into their homes.[2]Several villagers were taken prisoner and may have been killed after being paraded through the streets of West Jerusalem, though accounts vary.[3] Four of the attackers died, with around 35 injured.[4] The killings were condemned by the leadership of the Haganah—the Jewish community's main paramilitary force—and by the area's two chief rabbis. The Jewish Agency for Israelsent Jordan's King Abdullah a letter of apology, which he rebuffed.[1]The deaths became a pivotal event in the Arab-Israeli conflict for their demographic and military consequences. The narrative was embellished and used by various parties to attack each other—by the Palestinians to besmirch Israel; by the Haganah to play down their own role in the affair; and by the Israeli Left to accuse the Irgun and Lehi of violating the Jewish principle of purity of arms, thus blackening Israel's name around the world.[5] News of the killings sparked terror within the Palestinian community, encouraging them to flee from their towns and villages in the face of Jewish troop advances, and it strengthened the resolve of Arab governments to intervene, which they did five weeks later.[1]

Edited April 9, 2013 by rami hamed