Murders fall 42 percent in America's deadliest city: Chicago

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

over half of them are children

Kindly advise: What age defines children?

When a child becomes 18, he or she is no longer considered a child by the law. Depending on the state, this can change. For the sake of this argument, let's set the bar at 18. Now let's look at the numbers shall we:

446 School Age Children Shot in Chicago so Far This Year

THE LIST OF SCHOOL AGE CHILDREN SHOT IN 2012

18 year old- 110

17 year old- 99

16 year old- 89

15 year old- 62

14 year old- 39

13 year old- 21

12 year old- 10

11 year old- 2

10 year old- 3

9 year old- 1

7 year old- 3

6 year old- 2

5 year old- 1

4 year old- 1

3 year old- 1

1 year old- 2

So you have 110 18 year olds that were killed. The combined number of 17 and 16 almost doubles that.

Edit: My bad, this is the number of kids shot, here is the number of kids killed:

THE LIST OF MURDERED SCHOOL AGE CHILDREN 2012

18 YEARS OLD- 15

17 YEARS OLD- 16

16 YEARS OLD- 16

15 YEARS OLD- 6

14 YEARS OLD- 4

13 YEARS OLD- 2

12 YEARS OLD- 1

7 YEARS OLD- 1

6 YEARS OLD- 1

So you see, there are more kids under the age of 18 killed by a sizable margin. Between 16 and 17, that number doubles.

Edited April 6, 2013 by Su and Marvin

[Ban Hammer 13,344]

Glad no one was hurt, including you. I've had training on a few weapons, my favorite has to be the M16A2 rifle. I feel more comfortable using that weapon rather the 9mm I had to use when I was part of ASF.

that's one of the main reasons i got one of these

colt 6920

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

that's one of the main reasons i got one of these

colt 6920

I guess because I spent so much time with it, it's just easier for me to shoot than a hand gun. I shot one in Thailand back in 2010, didn't do too well with it. But with the M16, at the worst I'll get sharpshooter, at best expert:)

Edited April 6, 2013 by Su and Marvin

[himher 634]

When a child becomes 18, he or she is no longer considered a child by the law. Depending on the state, this can change. For the sake of this argument, let's set the bar at 18. Now let's look at the numbers shall we:

446 School Age Children Shot in Chicago so Far This Year

THE LIST OF SCHOOL AGE CHILDREN SHOT IN 2012

18 year old- 110

17 year old- 99

16 year old- 89

15 year old- 62

14 year old- 39

13 year old- 21

12 year old- 10

11 year old- 2

10 year old- 3

9 year old- 1

7 year old- 3

6 year old- 2

5 year old- 1

4 year old- 1

3 year old- 1

1 year old- 2

So you have 110 18 year olds that were killed. The combined number of 17 and 16 almost doubles that.

Edit: My bad, this is the number of kids shot, here is the number of kids killed:

THE LIST OF MURDERED SCHOOL AGE CHILDREN 2012

18 YEARS OLD- 15

17 YEARS OLD- 16

16 YEARS OLD- 16

15 YEARS OLD- 6

14 YEARS OLD- 4

13 YEARS OLD- 2

12 YEARS OLD- 1

7 YEARS OLD- 1

6 YEARS OLD- 1

So you see, there are more kids under the age of 18 killed by a sizable margin. Between 16 and 17, that number doubles.

So 12% of those killed were 18 or under and 446 kids were shot in one year.

What a travesty.

Edited April 6, 2013 by himher

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

So 12% of those killed were 18 or under and 446 kids were shot in one year.

What a travesty.

Yes, and this is why arming everyone in Chicago won't deter the gun violence.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

It's sad that you try to have a decent conversation with someone and it devolves into a name calling contest. I think conceal and carry is good under the right circumstances. But I think any high crime area needs to have other issues fixed before you give everyone the right to have a gun.

His conclusion was asinine. That is NOT name calling. Assuming that someone would never fire a gun and then go to get a concealed carry permit...and phrasing that way is asinine. asinine is a word and it does not refer to an individual so it is not name calling.

It is sad that the subject cannot be discussed without people being asinine.

Everyone already HAS the right to a gun. Two SCOTUS and 1 District Court ruling have determined so.

If other issues need to be fixed, then FIX THEM. I am not going to surrender my rights until you or anyone else decides that "other issues" have been fixed. That suggestion is also asinine. And promoting gun laws when the other issues have not been addressed and gun laws cannot address them...is also asinine. Actually, that is moronic. None of those terms are addressed to anyone in particular and are not "name calling"

Yes, and this is why arming everyone in Chicago won't deter the gun violence.

How is it "why"? Please detail your answer.

How will concealed carry licenses not deter violence in Chicago when they deter violence everywhere else?

Edited April 6, 2013 by Gary and Alla

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I had a pistol once. It was a .380 auto that I had no idea how to use. I didn't realize that when you pulled the slide back to eject the bullet in the chamber, that if you had the clip/magazine (whatever the #### it is) in the pistol, it would put another one in the chamber. Boy was I surprised when I pulled the trigger. Lucky someone isn't dead over that, including myself. I ended up giving the thing away and stuck to my shotgun.

But I don't need no stinking training!

Did you attend a concealed carry class to get a concealed carry permit? Do you have a concealed carry permit?

Simple...you recognized you are ignorant of firearms and do not carry one. That's called "common sense" and cannot be legislated. You have it or you do not. You have common sense but no knowledge of firearms. Nothing bad there, pretty common combination...which is why there are few firearms accidents among CC holders.

The point is that CC classes do not teach you how the gun works or how to shoot it or how to pass a test. Either you come prepared with that ability or you do not.

States like Vermont trust your common sense ans it works very well in practice. Vermont also does not require that anyone have drivers education to get a drivers license and our accident rates are no higher because COMMON SENSE prevails and people DO get instruction on driving.

You are ignorant of firearms, we knew that. We can tell by the uninformed statements you make.

If we extrapolate the ignorance then there should be gun accidents every day in Vermont because even you could actually carry that thing anywhere in the state...even while just visiting. So why do you suppose that doesn't happen Karee?

Edited April 6, 2013 by Gary and Alla

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

His conclusion was asinine. That is NOT name calling. Assuming that someone would never fire a gun and then go to get a concealed carry permit...and phrasing that way is asinine. asinine is a word and it does not refer to an individual so it is not name calling.

It is sad that the subject cannot be discussed without people being asinine.

Everyone already HAS the right to a gun. Two SCOTUS and 1 District Court ruling have determined so.

If other issues need to be fixed, then FIX THEM. I am not going to surrender my rights until you or anyone else decides that "other issues" have been fixed. That suggestion is also asinine. And promoting gun laws when the other issues have not been addressed and gun laws cannot address them...is also asinine. Actually, that is moronic. None of those terms are addressed to anyone in particular and are not "name calling"

How is it "why"? Please detail your answer.

How will concealed carry licenses not deter violence in Chicago when they deter violence everywhere else?

Okay, first of all, you do call people names all the time. In fact, anyone who doesn't agree with you or doesn't have the extensive knowledge of firearms that you possess, you call them an ignorant moron:

Gary and Alla, on 19 February 2013 - 07:35 PM, said:

How precise. Only a ignorant moron calls a "clip" a magazine. If I showed you a "clip" there is no way you would call it a "magazine". It means you have never seen either. That's like saying "tire" and "Wheel" are the same thing. Jeezum.

Keep talking...there is more

Ignorant people think "Oh this time is different!" No. It isn't. Joe Biden just went on a trip to France where he and his entourage spent more than $500,000 for ONE night in Paris. This is how they live. They are aristocracy! The US congress has a lower turnover rate that the Soviet Politburo. There is no way they could get perks like this in private industry. They are not going to risk it for what...a useless gun law?

Only a moron would believe that. Not directed at anyone in particular

So lay off the insults, you might get more out of the conversation,

Second, you asked to post facts that children were being killed, I did, I also posted that 440(actually 458 latest count) have been shot. How would conceal and carry reduce that when more than half that number is under the age of 18?

[Karee 4,190]

Everyone already HAS the right to a gun. Two SCOTUS and 1 District Court ruling have determined so.

Convicted felons do NOT have the right to a gun. Do some homework before posting. Everyone DOES NOT have the right to gun. Pretty sad when you claim to be some kind of gun law expert and don't at least know that

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

Convicted felons do NOT have the right to a gun. Do some homework before posting. Everyone DOES NOT have the right to gun. Pretty sad when you claim to be some kind of gun law expert and don't at least know that

Don't forget kids, because that 7 year old who was shot selling snow cones could have been saved if she was packing.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

http://tv.msnbc.com/2012/12/20/in-newtowns-shadow-chicagos-bleak-gun-toll-goes-on/

Her name never made national news. There were no headlines screaming for gun control. There were no teary eyes in the White House. And no one dared utter the obligatory, ‘it’s not supposed to happen here,’ as they so often do when the young and innocent are so tragically taken.

Heaven Sutton was seven years old when she was killed last summer, struck by a stray bullet as she sold candy and snow cones in her front yard on the eve of Chicago’s hottest day of the year.

Her grief stricken mother pleaded for peace. The mayor expressed his outrage. And Chicago—where gun violence is as routine as the L train into the South Side—buried yet another of its young. Heaven joined the more than 270 school aged children to be killed in Chicago in just three years.

This is why I I can't have a decent conversation with you, once you start name calling, it's no point.

I did not call you a name. Please post where I did that.

In fact you do not wish to engage me on this subject because you have no ...ammunition. Your "magazine" is empty.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

I did not call you a name. Please post where I did that.

In fact you do not wish to engage me on this subject because you have no ...ammunition. Your "magazine" is empty.

Gary and Alla, on 19 February 2013 - 07:35 PM, said:

How precise. Only a ignorant moron calls a "clip" a magazine. If I showed you a "clip" there is no way you would call it a "magazine". It means you have never seen either. That's like saying "tire" and "Wheel" are the same thing. Jeezum.

Keep talking...there is more

Now show me where arming kids with guns will reduce crime.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Don't forget kids, because that 7 year old who was shot selling snow cones could have been saved if she was packing.

I will explain this one more time and then simply agree to accept your inability to learn. We already HAVE concealed carry so your opinion does not matter. And I have not all day for free public service education

She may have been saved if someone else was packing. Concealed carry reduces crime. It does not benefit ONLY those that carry firearms concealed.

As long as you cling to the notion that ONLY people who carry firearms receive a benefit then you will never understand the concept. It is like saying a plainclothes policeman cannot benefit society because the 7 year old girl is not a plainclothes policeman.

Vermont has an extremely low crime rate. Children are safe as well as adults. Children do not carry guns and only a few adults carry guns. But ALL the adults CAN carry guns. ANY adult anywhere near any child CAN be "packing" and so this provides safety to the child.

Would an armed, plainclothes Air Marshall ONLY provide safety to himself and none of the other passengers...including 7 year olds?

Marvin, your argument makes no sense whatever given 30 years of results in every state. You simply have an untenable position and cannot invent a reason for it to exist.

When concealed carry is in effect in Illinois and Chicago, crime in Chicago will be reduced further and there will be less victims. If 50% of the victims are children, then 50% of a lower number will be children. Result...less children killed.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Gary and Alla, on 19 February 2013 - 07:35 PM, said:

How precise. Only a ignorant moron calls a "clip" a magazine. If I showed you a "clip" there is no way you would call it a "magazine". It means you have never seen either. That's like saying "tire" and "Wheel" are the same thing. Jeezum.

Keep talking...there is more

Now show me where arming kids with guns will reduce crime.

Are you saying there ARE no ignorant morons? Oh there is, Marvin. I assure you. There really ARE stupid people. And I support their right to be stupid morons at their expense.

How is that calling YOU a name. Please explain.

I have not advocated arming children so I have no need to show you where that would reduce crime. I will gladly support any statements I have made. I did not make that one.

Keep talking. I have more.

Edited April 6, 2013 by Gary and Alla

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Convicted felons do NOT have the right to a gun. Do some homework before posting. Everyone DOES NOT have the right to gun. Pretty sad when you claim to be some kind of gun law expert and don't at least know that

Thank you. I stand corrected.

Everyone has the right to a gun unless they forfeit that right through certain actions requiring due process to relieve them of that right. True. There are even misdemeanor actions which can, at minimum, suspend one's right to own guns. I forgot to mention those too. Sorry.

I assume certain things are known and that maybe was incorrect, I should not assume that. For future reference...when I say "everyone" I exclude those that are unable to own firearms by federal or state law. My way of being brief.

Please excuse. You are free to add your disclaimer as a response to any of my posts. Just follow along.