Murders fall 42 percent in America's deadliest city: Chicago

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

Well here's the deal Marvin. I reference rap music as an example of a community's glorification of violence and you jump in every tme and include yourself in that community. Not once, ever, did I accuse YOU of liking rap music but since you choose over and over to bend over and identify yourself with the crime/murder/violence community that I do speak of then you must do so either (a) because of skin color or (b) because you support and stand for what that community supports and stands for. If it's (a) I view that as racism.

We are talking about chicago and murders. The 36-time-bandit is a resident of chicago and party to a recent highly covered murder. Since he's also black you don't want to talk at all about how the hell someone can play catch and release 36 times in the criminal justice system, nor do you want to talk about the murder, you want to talk about racism in Texas as if racism in Texas has anything to do with the murder of the child of a 36-time loser in Chicago.

Which part of it is actually relevent to Murders fall 42 percent in America's deadliest city: Chicago? A recent murder in chicago or racism in Texas?

blacks only want to be inclusive when it benefits them was actually said by someone else in that other thread. However, to one such as you, you just see words and you see white and what does it matter if you pin the words to me or to the one who actually said it huh? Is what I say or how I speak any different from what you did? We might both have a problem but in this thread we are talking about Chicago and you are quite well invited to discuss crime and violence in Texas and who is doing what in another thread if you want. I'll go over there and say my piece.

I also didnt say you are OK with blacks owning and selling slaves but I sure did accuse you of overlooking it and excusing it. Talking about the black people who captured and enslaved them and rounded them up for sale is unworthy of mention to you but you sure do want to talk about the white people who bought them all packaged neatly for shipment. I did accuse you of harping on one and ignoring the other because of their skin color. To you my bringing up enslavement of black africans by other black africans is racist. To me your overlooking it to concentrate on the white slave traders who bought them is also racist. To you my bringing up the statistics that the black community is responsible for violent crime at a rate 10-20 times that of the white community is racist. To me your implication that this issue is somehow due to need for more programs, more money, more opportunity from the white community rather than the choices of the individuals because the fault is not on the individuals at all while you fault the entire white community for the actions of those who have long since died and turned to dust is racist.

If my views are racist to you so be it. Your views that a discussion of a 36-time loser should be shelved to discuss white racism because the loser has black skin are just as racist to me.

Ok, when did I even associate myself with being part of that community? I've referenced myself as a black man, you're the one who keeps making black and violence/criminal synonymous. Just like you've ignored my question about using outdated slang to have a coherent conversation with me. I know that's the case because it's the only time you talk like that. I speak for me and those like me who aren't ignorant folks, the way you enjoy painting us every chance you get. I'm not ignoring what you are talking about, if I wasn't informed then I have said so in the past. I just don't laser focus on it like you seem to do. Here's my main problem with you:

When I came to this forum last year, there was a thread about black riots. Back then no one knew I was black so most folks just called me a lib and that's as far as it went. One day RHR and I got into a deep conversation about black riots in white neighborhoods. I remember making a comment about it and he responded in the same way you did, using outdated slang like it would be funny or not offensive since he didn't know who he was talking to. Once I told him I was black and a muslim, plus what my thoughts were on black crime and ignorance, guess what? His response was one of intelligence and compassion. He didn't use that crappy slang he was using before, he asked my opinion and we had a rather engaging conversation, no insults or taunts. We found common ground and to this day, even though we have different views on things, he keeps it classy, (well, as classy as one can be without using spell check) most of the time. Something you have yet to do with me since this whole thing has started. RHR has pointed out racism on my side of the fence and I have told him I don't tolerate it as well. And he can accept that, just like I accept that all white people aren't racists, but you clearly have a problem with it, just like you posted before. If you have a problem with what consistently happens around black people, yet I am black and it's never happened with me, why are you lumping me into that category?

[himher 634]

Ok, when did I even associate myself with being part of that community? I've referenced myself as a black man, you're the one who keeps making black and violence/criminal synonymous. Just like you've ignored my question about using outdated slang to have a coherent conversation with me. I know that's the case because it's the only time you talk like that. I speak for me and those like me who aren't ignorant folks, the way you enjoy painting us every chance you get. I'm not ignoring what you are talking about, if I wasn't informed then I have said so in the past. I just don't laser focus on it like you seem to do. Here's my main problem with you:

When I came to this forum last year, there was a thread about black riots. Back then no one knew I was black so most folks just called me a lib and that's as far as it went. One day RHR and I got into a deep conversation about black riots in white neighborhoods. I remember making a comment about it and he responded in the same way you did, using outdated slang like it would be funny or not offensive since he didn't know who he was talking to. Once I told him I was black and a muslim, plus what my thoughts were on black crime and ignorance, guess what? His response was one of intelligence and compassion. He didn't use that crappy slang he was using before, he asked my opinion and we had a rather engaging conversation, no insults or taunts. We found common ground and to this day, even though we have different views on things, he keeps it classy, (well, as classy as one can be without using spell check) most of the time. Something you have yet to do with me since this whole thing has started. RHR has pointed out racism on my side of the fence and I have told him I don't tolerate it as well. And he can accept that, just like I accept that all white people aren't racists, but you clearly have a problem with it, just like you posted before. If you have a problem with what consistently happens around black people, yet I am black and it's never happened with me, why are you lumping me into that category?

I didnt lump you into that category. There is no need to personally take general discussion and general statistics and apply them to yourself. The referenced violence and criminal synonyms are derived from published, free to all, and easily obtainable numbers. NONE of the published, free to all, and easily obtainable numbers imply that every single member of any one community engages in violent crime or murder or any other destructive "activity under discussion of the day".

From your side I am wondering why you and your colleagues are incapable of seeing that if I or anyone else comments / has harsh words on the murders or comments / has harsh words on the crimes and those who commit them or comments / has harsh words for those responsible for protecting them the empathy is with the victims and in that you will find no post, no implied words, no reason to believe that any of us feel that the victims somehow deserve what they have to live with. Can you? I suspect you can think back and maybe think that I and others who you call ignorant racists are color-blind in regards to those victims. You and your colleagues attack us daily when we speak up or speak out about those victims and the failures to protect those victims when in fact those victims are entitled to your empathy as well and those who victimize them or fail to protect them need to be called out.

Do they get it from you? No. No words from you for the victims and a stout defense for those who fail them followed by rallying cry to brand those who do question or comment ignorant or racist. The best you and your colleagues can offer is attack/name-calling to anyone who dares to consider speaking up for them or dares to challenge the excuses made for those who victimize them. If you make excuses for people who victimize other people I will call you out no matter where you are from or what color you are.

It is common to mistake southern slang for ignorance. You aren't the first and won't be the last to fall off that cliff.

Edited April 6, 2013 by himher

[decocker 7,198]

From your side I am wondering why you and your colleagues are incapable of seeing that if I or anyone else comments / has harsh words on the murders or comments / has harsh words on the crimes and those who commit them or comments / has harsh words for those responsible for protecting them the empathy is with the victims and in that you will find no post, no implied words, no reason to believe that any of us feel that the victims somehow deserve what they have to live with. Can you? I suspect you can think back and maybe think that I and others who you call ignorant racists are color-blind in regards to those victims. You and your colleagues attack us daily when we speak up or speak out about those victims and the failures to protect those victims when in fact those victims are entitled to your empathy as well and those who victimize them or fail to protect them need to be called out.

so now your compassion is with the victims? even though in inner chicago, the victim could have just as easily been the murderer? of course there are innocent victims, but mostly young men killing each other. destroying themselves. that's why we're discussing community, correct? anyway i find this compassion stance hard to believe.

Edited April 6, 2013 by val erie

[himher 634]

so now your compassion is with the victims? even though in inner chicago, the victim could have just as easily been the murderer? of course there are innocent victims, but mostly young men killing each other. destroying themselves. that's why we're discussing community, correct? anyway i find this compassion stance hard to believe.

Hard? I used incapable.

I am wondering why you and your colleagues are incapable of seeing

So what's new? I'm somehow unstunned by this post.

Edited April 6, 2013 by himher

[decocker 7,198]

What's new? I'm somehow unstunned by this post.

maybe when you were talking about compassion towards victims you were referring to a specific victim? not trying to stun, i'm trying to understand. this doesn't add up in my liberal mind.

[himher 634]

maybe when you were talking about compassion towards victims you were referring to a specific victim? not trying to stun, i'm trying to understand. this doesn't add up in my liberal mind.

What in your liberal mind believes disgust for crime stems from? Ignorance and racism?

Edited April 6, 2013 by himher

[decocker 7,198]

What in your liberal mind believes disgust for crime stems from? Ignorance and racism?

can you not disassociate crime from the criminal? hate the sin not the sinner - ever heard of that?

[himher 634]

can you not disassociate crime from the criminal? hate the sin not the sinner - ever heard of that?

No. You unfortunately cannot disassociate crime from the criminal and expect to control crime

[decocker 7,198]

No. You unfortunately cannot disassociate crime from the criminal and expect to control crime

oh i was following that compassion trail, i guess you jumped off. nevermind.

[himher 634]

oh i was following that compassion trail, i guess you jumped off. nevermind.

I know you were

I will be unfortunately unable to join you on the trail of compassion for the criminal yet note with amusement my previously identified pattern of ignoring the victim while focusing on the criminal and compassion for the criminal.

Edited April 6, 2013 by himher

[decocker 7,198]

yet note with amusement my previously identified pattern of ignoring the victim while focusing on the criminal and compassion for the criminal.

that would be because you fail to accept that it's possible to be compassionate for both. maybe not possible for all, but thankfully some.

[himher 634]

that would be because you fail to accept that it's possible to be compassionate for both. maybe not possible for all, but thankfully some.

Compassionate for both gets someone through the justice system 36 times and gets a baby killed.

[Darnell 8,478]

From your side I am wondering why you and your colleagues are ...

Methinks 'colleagues' on VJ be a loooong stretch .... Just saying. And not on Marvin particularly, but to all VJ members equally.

[decocker 7,198]

Methinks 'colleagues' on VJ be a loooong stretch .... Just saying. And not on Marvin particularly, but to all VJ members equally.

we are colleagues in the sense of the mindless work of internet bickering. strrrrretch.

[Darnell 8,478]

oh. ... 'that' job.. aiyo.. really? ok..