Gun violence affects everyone

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

Who said you did anyway?

?You could always choose to exclude yourself from discussions of violence and where violence is celebrated and glorified in which communities?

If this does not apply to you why the need to do so?

It is simple: People who listen to rap music who also live in communities that are intolerant of wanton violence do not commit wanton violence at the same rate as people who live in communities that are tolerant of wanton violence.

Love the generalizations. That's because you feel the need to bring up the black community whenever there is a gun debate that has NOTHING to do with it. And I know quite a few people that listen to rap music that are white and don't live in the community you seem to love talking about.

[himher 634]

Love the generalizations. That's because you feel the need to bring up the black community whenever there is a gun debate that has NOTHING to do with it. And I know quite a few people that listen to rap music that are white and don't live in the community you seem to love talking about.

I'm sure that you know a hell of a lot of people that are white and don't live in the community I "seem to love talking about" and really Marvin you didn't actually have to come out and say that - sorta goes without sayin'.

Whenever there is a gun debate I specifically bring up geographical areas where gun violence exceeds national averages by factors of 10-20. The fact that these geographical areas are majority black and that there is NO geographical area that is majority black where gun violence is equal or below national average means one thing: The violence in the black community needs to be addressed and it will not be addressed by eliminating the ability of the rest of the country to protect and defend themselves from violence.

If you want to discuss productive ways to address it be my unbothered guest. If you want to bring the problem into my wallet or my property or my home I'm going to drop-kick it where it belongs - with the group that originates most of it. The choice to include yourself in or exclude yourself from that group is otherwise yours.

Edited March 31, 2013 by himher

[Danno 1,228]

Even if we take your facts at face value, in a state of 19 million people, and a little more than half are women, that is around a one percent of the female population, which is probably close to the total population of female gun nutters in Florida.

What point are you trying to make? Women get freaky too?

My point is, I suspect this is a huge growing segment of the gun market... one in which the cartoon ignored.

By the way, I believe Fla. has 1 million total conceal carry now and it just keeps growing.

Imagine that when you walk around Fla, 1 in 20 people you see (man women or child) has a conceal carry permit.

And you say that is not a huge boost to gun sales?

Edited April 1, 2013 by Danno

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

I'm sure that you know a hell of a lot of people that are white and don't live in the community I "seem to love talking about" and really Marvin you didn't actually have to come out and say that - sorta goes without sayin'.

Whenever there is a gun debate I specifically bring up geographical areas where gun violence exceeds national averages by factors of 10-20. The fact that these geographical areas are majority black and that there is NO geographical area that is majority black where gun violence is equal or below national average means one thing: The violence in the black community needs to be addressed and it will not be addressed by eliminating the ability of the rest of the country to protect and defend themselves from violence.

If you want to discuss productive ways to address it be my unbothered guest. If you want to bring the problem into my wallet or my property or my home I'm going to drop-kick it where it belongs - with the group that originates most of it. The choice to include yourself in or exclude yourself from that group is otherwise yours.

And your last statement brings up my point yet again. I have always been supportive of positive ways to reduce gun violence in all communities. I have said that folks that abuse the system, black or white should be dealt with, and I have never said anything about taking guns out of people's hands that are responsible with them. But whenever I post this, and most folks agree with me, you still have to come in and start an argument, every time.

I have no problem addressing the problem with black violence, but it can be done without the racial stereotyping that you are so quick to throw at me. Like assuming I listen to rap music, or thinking that I am ok with someone of my own color using slurs. No one has said anything about taking money out of your wallet, or lower test scores or even making it easier for minorities to get jobs if they aren't qualified. But you tend to sling this nonsense when we have a discussion. Ironically, we are on the same side, but you tend to keep forcing an argument out of me.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

-Not sure I endorsed STOP AND FRISK, I simply repeated what little I have heard about it.

Here is one such graph on the murder reduction.

-Why don't you post the parameters around which Stop and Frisk is allowed, you make it sound like they are frisking all the Black folks as they exist the subway.

I would assume it is authorized when police make contact with a suspicious person.

Clarify please, I am on my way to a dinner engagement or I would look in to it.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonoberholtzer/2012/07/17/stop-and-frisk-by-the-numbers/

Here is the best I could find, and you're right, the reason I make it sound like that is because that's what is happening:

Last year, the NYPD made more stops of young black men than there are young black men in the city’s population. 158,406 young black men live in New York City and the NYPD made 168,126 stops.

The NYCLU looks at young black and Latino men.

Young black and Latino men account for 4.7% of NYC’s population but 41.6% of the stops in 2011.

Again, from the May New York Times article:

85% of those stopped were black or Hispanic even though those groups make up about half of NYC’s population.

Edited April 1, 2013 by Su and Marvin

[Danno 1,228]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonoberholtzer/2012/07/17/stop-and-frisk-by-the-numbers/

Here is the best I could find, and you're right, the reason I make it sound like that is because that's what is happening:

Last year, the NYPD made more stops of young black men than there are young black men in the city’s population. 158,406 young black men live in New York City and the NYPD made 168,126 stops.

The NYCLU looks at young black and Latino men.

Young black and Latino men account for 4.7% of NYC’s population but 41.6% of the stops in 2011.

Again, from the May New York Times article:

85% of those stopped were black or Hispanic even though those groups make up about half of NYC’s population.

Thanks for that.

Rather than telling the percentage of Blacks in the city, it might be more helpful when examining the need to stop a demographic ... is the percentage of crime they commit.

What percentage of Murders are Black?

For instance we know that blacks kill at, not two times the rate as whites.... not four times as often as whites but 6-7 times the rate that Whites kill, why would anyone expect frisks or any other interaction with police to mimic population statistics?

Edited April 1, 2013 by Danno

[decocker 7,198]

Rather than telling the percentage of Blacks in the city, it might be more helpful when examining the need to stop a demographic ... is the percentage of crime they commit.

What percentage of Murders are Black?

also helpful, proper sentence structure.

[Danno 1,228]

also helpful, proper sentence structure.

Yeah thats a big problem of mine.... I welcome tips.

[decocker 7,198]

Yeah thats a big problem of mine.... I welcome tips.

having a concise and valid point generally makes the process less tedious.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

Thanks for that.

Rather than telling the percentage of Blacks in the city, it might be more helpful when examining the need to stop a demographic ... is the percentage of crime they commit.

What percentage of Murders are Black?

For instance we know that blacks kill at, not two times the rate as whites.... not four times as often as whites but 6-7 times the rate that Whites kill, why would anyone expect frisks or any other interaction with police to mimic population statistics?

Okay, first of all that's some blacks, not all. Last time I checked I have no homicidal tendicies I need to curb, so either I am an exceptional black person, or I choose to do things differently. You make it seem like a genetic disposition. We've had this conversation before, there are different factors that play into crime in any city.

Second, if they wanted to reduce crime with stop and frisk, they need to revise their technique, when you have a young man who has been frisked over 60 times, and has yet to produce a weapon or commit a crime, time to take it back to the drawing board. Because in order to avoid it, just give the gun to your girlfriend, or a person of non color. They never check them.

[Danno 1,228]

You kinda avoided my point, or perhaps I failed to make it well enough.

The police are going to search those who are doing something suspicious, I doubt they are cruising the Colleges looking for Black males to frisk.

You cited population as an indicator of how unfair the frisking was... as if getting frisked was a lottery and people were just drawn at random.

I didn't hear you complain that the vast majority of those frisked were also in an exclusive age bracket, I suppose teens and twenty something could use your logic and make the case that they are being targeted for guns more than Old folks.

Again I am not expressly defending the way Stop and frisk is done, I don't know enough about it.

What I do know is the ground you stood on to complain is not very stable.

Here is another question Q: How many guns have been recovered by this program and further more how many lives are estimated to have been saved?

No I will move on to another concept.

IN this country we have a means by where "Martial Law" can be declared, when a situation such as lawlessness presents it's self, Authorities can strip us of many of our rights to maintain order.

In some cities the lawlessness is getting to the point where some "flexibility" will be granted in order to combat an out of control problem.

Of course this is dangerous because limits and scope have not been clearly defined..... however, you can expect more of this.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

[spookyturtle 9,466]

[Danno 1,228]

Exactly and they don't just cross the street, they so often have a moving van with em.

[himher 634]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonoberholtzer/2012/07/17/stop-and-frisk-by-the-numbers/

Here is the best I could find, and you're right, the reason I make it sound like that is because that's what is happening:

Last year, the NYPD made more stops of young black men than there are young black men in the city’s population. 158,406 young black men live in New York City and the NYPD made 168,126 stops.

The NYCLU looks at young black and Latino men.

Young black and Latino men account for 4.7% of NYC’s population but 41.6% of the stops in 2011.

Again, from the May New York Times article:

85% of those stopped were black or Hispanic even though those groups make up about half of NYC’s population.

Your answer here

http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloads/pdf/analysis_and_planning/yearend2011enforcementreport.pdf

NOTE: 90% of the murder, rape, and other felony arrestees in NYC were black and hispanic.

See how that works? There are actually a lower percentage of black/hispanics stopped and frisked than the percent of the crimes that the black/hispanics committed.

SO: Why wouldnt they profile the groups that commit 90% of the crimes for the stop and frisk program?

90% of the crimes come from less than, by your numbers, 50% of the population. Sounds like some other places that have been brought up lately huh

Edited April 1, 2013 by himher