David Frum: Why Do We Need Marriage Equality?

[Penny Lane 8,159]

Well I must have confused you with that other liberal woman Val something or another in here. Really makes no difference if I was totally wrong and way of base my story still makes good sense.

Perhaps. My brothers were demons.

[Danno 1,228]

As you said yourself, we're in that very same boat. Were it not for immigrants and the children they are having, this country would be shrinking too. Our immigrants come mainly out of SE Asia and from south of the border. Europe's immigrants come from SE Asia and from south of their border. It's not all that different, really. What do immigrants believe? A lot of different things. Most integrate quite nicely, however.

When it comes to immigration I really have two concerns.

1. they are coming in at such numbers as to prevent a unified culture. AS their political power rises and changes start to take place, this could very well lead to real problem.

2. On a more personal concern we see the Bulk of immigrants like and vote for the Party of growing government.

And I will throw one in for extra measure.

* Some groups tend to gravitate towards education and others not so much. Unless something changes we are heading more towards class divisions even more than we have now.

But I guess "spreading the Wealth around" is intended to solve that. As nearly half of the folks are not pulling the wagon, as those who do are asked to do more and more, it could lead to another area of instability.

[MyLittlePony 340]

I am too proud not to be gay what matters to me.

[Danno 1,228]

How terrible, isn't it? Promoting not judging people on their sexual orientation. Preaching a more tolerant society. Just the worst.

Quit kidding yourself, It's not about "tolerance" it's about certain groups getting tolerance and viewed in a good light or as a victim... to effect people like you.

It's called TV-Reality.

Good lord could you imagine if average Gun owners got 38% of programing slots in Sit-coms for the express purpose to show how "reasonable" and normal gun owners are.... and these same networks refused to show gun owners in a negative light... imagine that would you.

[Danno 1,228]

Where? Which schools here are teaching the "earliest grades" about the details of marriage?

I don't know if you are kidding or just uninformed.

Using the school system to subvert the values of children, contrary to the beliefs of parents.

Thats really the most troubling thing that *the State* will decide on fundamental matters of importance to many people.

I guess the comical part is, our children are far behind other countries in so many areas of education.. yet they have time for this stuff.

Priorities I guess.

Here is what was going on more than a decade ago, lets start there and they we will slowly get you up to speed.

What is so special about this "pro-gay" training aid is how one teacher questions if they should be teaching things contrary their church and family.... and watch how the "Statist" responds.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

When it comes to immigration I really have two concerns.

1. they are coming in at such numbers as to prevent a unified culture. AS their political power rises and changes start to take place, this could very well lead to real problem.

2. On a more personal concern we see the Bulk of immigrants like and vote for the Party of growing government.

And I will throw one in for extra measure.

* Some groups tend to gravitate towards education and others not so much. Unless something changes we are heading more towards class divisions even more than we have now.

But I guess "spreading the Wealth around" is intended to solve that. As nearly half of the folks are not pulling the wagon, as those who do are asked to do more and more, it could lead to another area of instability.

What's a "unified culture"? There really isn't one here and there really never has been one. You've always had groups of people migrating here gravitating towards one another and establish their communities at different degrees preserving their heritage. It's the second and third generations that assimilate - not so much the first generation. The heritage preservation trends vary between the different groups. I'd venture to say that my wife is doing a lot more preserving and gravitating towards other people from her country than I do. I'd further venture to say that this is probably common when comparing first generation immigrants from her vs. my country. But then I look at our daughter and I know that she's as American as they come. Now, she knows about Germany (speaks German, too) and knows about Ethiopia (and yes, she speaks Amharic as well) and she feels a connection to both countries (it's where grandmas and grandpas are) but there better not be a bad word said about America in our house. Baby will get mad.

We have tons of friends that are immigrants and their kids are just like ours. My wife has family in just about every major city in this country (and in many major cities in other countries) and their kids all positively identify with their home countries - be that the US, Norway, the UK, Germany, Australia, Canada, Austria or Italy. Seeing and experiencing this first hand, I am very comfortable with immigration. The US is a country that has been built on immigration. It is stronger because of immigration. Immigration is nothing to fear, it is something to embrace. I love seeing ever more color in Berlin every time I go back to visit. The city is becoming ever more vibrant and interesting. It's awesome.

[Penny Lane 8,159]

I don't know if you are kidding or just uninformed.

Using the school system to subvert the values of children, contrary to the beliefs of parents.

Thats really the most troubling thing that *the State* will decide on fundamental matters of importance to many people.

I guess the comical part is, our children are far behind other countries in so many areas of education.. yet they have time for this stuff.

Priorities I guess.

Here is what was going on more than a decade ago, lets start there and they we will slowly get you up to speed.

What is so special about this "pro-gay" training aid is how one teacher questions if they should be teaching things contrary their church and family.... and watch how the "Statist" responds.

You are easily the most paranoid, scared person I've ever come across. I'm genuinely starting to feel bad.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

You are easily the most paranoid, scared person I've ever come across. I'm genuinely starting to feel bad.

Yeah, Danno is paranoid. He accounts for half of Alcoa's tin foil production.

[Penny Lane 8,159]

Yeah, Danno is paranoid. He accounts for half of Alcoa's tin foil production.

Just .. to genuinely believe there is a conspiracy where there is "pro-gay training" happening in schools and the media is pushing their pro-gay agenda and indoctrinating children. And to genuinely believe that gay marriage will lead to social chaos and nations ceasing to exist. It boggles the mind.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Just .. to genuinely believe there is a conspiracy where there is "pro-gay training" happening in schools and the media is pushing their pro-gay agenda and indoctrinating children. And to genuinely believe that gay marriage will lead to social chaos and nations ceasing to exist. It boggles the mind.

You need to - as Danno most certainly does - dedicate yourself to the study of the World Nut Daily to get to this degree of paranoia.

[Karee 4,191]

I don't know if you are kidding or just uninformed.

Using the school system to subvert the values of children, contrary to the beliefs of parents.

Thats really the most troubling thing that *the State* will decide on fundamental matters of importance to many people.

I guess the comical part is, our children are far behind other countries in so many areas of education.. yet they have time for this stuff.

Priorities I guess.

Here is what was going on more than a decade ago, lets start there and they we will slowly get you up to speed.

What is so special about this "pro-gay" training aid is how one teacher questions if they should be teaching things contrary their church and family.... and watch how the "Statist" responds.

1. I don't think school is the place for this.

2. These kids are way too young.

[Danno 1,228]

You've always had groups of people migrating here gravitating towards one another and establish their communities at different degrees preserving their heritage. It's the second and third generations that assimilate -

I'm not sure how you conclude that.

In the earlyist days it was British and then other Europeans arrived..... and then the net of Europeans went even wider.... and then the door closed. It closed so tight that there was even a year or two where more people left than arrived.

Then we were into the erra I think you are speaking about.... few people coming and and de-facto assimilation took place with the second generation.

1965 opened the door wide again but this time the numbers shifted, rather than taking majority Europeans, we now took a minority europeans and with the vast majority now coming from mostly third-world countries.

So if you take confidence in the history of assimilation of Europeans (after shutting the door)

and think it applies to today, I admire your optimism, Europeans had much more in common and even still.... there were many problems (one of the reasons the heavy restrictions were put in place.

Todays immigrants are much more dissimilar from each other than ever before, wildly different customs, faiths language, foods, cultures.

And despite your personal experience, diverse areas do not typically share your expeience, research shows, people "hunker down"

they feel less safe, they interact less, they trust government less, they trust their neighbors less the involve themselves in community must less.

Now your optimism could prove correct... but I think it is better to play it safe and go slow with changes. Especially when the change has failed time and time again.

And the more I read history the more you see these common themes of balkanized societies committing the worst kinds of crimes.

Look to the places in the world where such things have gone on or are going on and it's not because the Jews and the Arabs are too much alike.... It's not because the Serbs and bosnians had too much in common.

It's not because the Muslims and Christians in Africa can't tell each other part.

These type of differences are not the only reason for clashs but they play a part so much of the time that to set immigrations policy around fairy-dust is reckless.

As I said big social change should go slow.....because it is very difficult to put it in reverse and the price for error is monumental.

We have no history with this kind of immigration prior to the 70's.

Edited March 27, 2013 by Danno

[Penny Lane 8,159]

Yes, it's the pro-gay crowd that's hurting today's children with indoctrination.

Edited March 27, 2013 by Evylin

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I don't know if you are kidding or just uninformed.

Using the school system to subvert the values of children, contrary to the beliefs of parents.

Thats really the most troubling thing that *the State* will decide on fundamental matters of importance to many people.

I guess the comical part is, our children are far behind other countries in so many areas of education.. yet they have time for this stuff.

Priorities I guess.

Here is what was going on more than a decade ago, lets start there and they we will slowly get you up to speed.

What is so special about this "pro-gay" training aid is how one teacher questions if they should be teaching things contrary their church and family.... and watch how the "Statist" responds.

Cambridge Friends School is a PRIVATE school - a religious private school - not a public school as your propaganda falsely claims, Danno. You've got nothing but propaganda, paranoia and lies on your side of the argument. And a study you fail to understand.

It is the mission of Cambridge Friends School to provide an outstanding education. Guided by Quaker principles, we engage students in meaningful academic learning within a caring community strongly committed to social justice. We expect all students to develop their intellectual, physical, creative, and spiritual potential and, through the example of their lives, to challenge oppression and to contribute to justice and understanding in the world.

[Danno 1,228]

Cambridge Friends School is a PRIVATE school - a religious private school - not a public school as your propaganda falsely claims, Danno. You've got nothing but propaganda, paranoia and lies on your side of the argument. And a study you fail to understand.

Of course that's a private school that how it was able to be filmed back then.

Do you want to go out on a limb and say I can't produce the same ting and more in public schools?

Hmm?