More Cut'n run news from the Democrats

[PurrSuede 0]

Okay let's just get outta there! Like thats gonna make things all better? My god! Then what? I guess it will be HIDE, WAIT,HOPE,PRAY. I hear alot about bailing out but nothing about an alternative plan on how to deal with these whacko's. Well to everyone that wants us out of Iraq I pose this question, Whats the plan? If any of you think the killing will stop.At best thats wishful thinking. The killing will slow down but when it does happen it will be in bulk and on our soil!

uh huh... and yeah, this is how we "win" the "war on terror"???

Soldier pleads guilty in Iraq killings

One of four U.S. soldiers accused of raping an Iraqi girl last spring and killing her and her family pleaded guilty Wednesday and will testify against the others.

Spc. James P. Barker agreed to the plea deal to avoid the death penalty, said his civilian attorney, David Sheldon.

The killings March 12 in Mahmoudiya, a village about 20 miles south of Baghdad, were among the worst in a series of alleged attacks on civilians and other abuses by military personnel in Iraq.

Sgt. Paul E. Cortez and Pfc. Jesse V. Spielman, both members of the 101st Airborne Division with Barker, could face the death penalty if convicted in the case in courts-martial at Fort Campbell.

The alleged ringleader, former Army private Steve Green, 21, pleaded not guilty last week to charges including murder and sexual assault.

Green was discharged from the Army for a "personality disorder" before the allegations became known, and prosecutors have yet to say if they will pursue the death penalty against him.

The indictment accuses Green and others of raping the girl and burning her body to conceal their crimes. It also alleges that Green and four others stationed at a nearby checkpoint killed the girl's father, mother and 6-year-old sister.

Barker has given investigators vivid accounts of the assault.

source: http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/11/15/iraq.slaying.ap/index.html

[Carol&Marc 0]

Okay let's just get outta there! Like thats gonna make things all better? My god! Then what? I guess it will be HIDE, WAIT,HOPE,PRAY. I hear alot about bailing out but nothing about an alternative plan on how to deal with these whacko's. Well to everyone that wants us out of Iraq I pose this question, Whats the plan? If any of you think the killing will stop.At best thats wishful thinking. The killing will slow down but when it does happen it will be in bulk and on our soil!

uh huh... and yeah, this is how we "win" the "war on terror"???

Soldier pleads guilty in Iraq killings

One of four U.S. soldiers accused of raping an Iraqi girl last spring and killing her and her family pleaded guilty Wednesday and will testify against the others.

Spc. James P. Barker agreed to the plea deal to avoid the death penalty, said his civilian attorney, David Sheldon.

The killings March 12 in Mahmoudiya, a village about 20 miles south of Baghdad, were among the worst in a series of alleged attacks on civilians and other abuses by military personnel in Iraq.

Sgt. Paul E. Cortez and Pfc. Jesse V. Spielman, both members of the 101st Airborne Division with Barker, could face the death penalty if convicted in the case in courts-martial at Fort Campbell.

The alleged ringleader, former Army private Steve Green, 21, pleaded not guilty last week to charges including murder and sexual assault.

Green was discharged from the Army for a "personality disorder" before the allegations became known, and prosecutors have yet to say if they will pursue the death penalty against him.

The indictment accuses Green and others of raping the girl and burning her body to conceal their crimes. It also alleges that Green and four others stationed at a nearby checkpoint killed the girl's father, mother and 6-year-old sister.

Barker has given investigators vivid accounts of the assault.

source: http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/11/15/iraq.slaying.ap/index.html

YEP, You made my POINT! NO PLAN!

[garya505 2]

To me the best option is to split the country into 3 sections and get out of Dodge. I don't see how anyone getting control of the country without using Saddam like tactics. Saddam might be an @sshole, but there wasn't bombs going offing the street, unless it was ones we dropped.

I think that's because he ruled with an iron fist and preemptively eliminated any opposition.

I used to think the idea of splitting the country into 3 parts was kind of whacky, but if you look at the history, maybe it's not a bad idea. I think them guys in Turkey might be a little pissed though, if the Kurds officially get their own country.

I might be mistaken, but isn't Iraq a thrown together country by the British? The people there wouldn't have formed a country together on their own.

#### Turkey, we need to do what is in our best interest.

Yeah, Winston Churchill supposedly drew the outline of Iraq on a breakfast napkin, in 1920 I believe.

[PurrSuede 0]

YEP, You made my POINT! NO PLAN!

Yeah, just like there's been NO PLAN! for the last five years either...

except I forgot...

Part I of the "Plan":

1. Stay the course.

2. Stay the course.

3. Stay the course.

4. Stay the course.

ad infinitum.... and meanwhile...

Part II of the "Plan":

Let American soldiers continue to die on foreign soil doing NOTHING that actually defends our country

Now -theres- a plan any American can be proud of, huh??

sheesh

[Carol&Marc 0]

YEP, You made my POINT! NO PLAN!

Yeah, just like there's been NO PLAN! for the last five years either...

except I forgot...

Part I of the "Plan":

1. Stay the course.

2. Stay the course.

3. Stay the course.

4. Stay the course.

ad infinitum.... and meanwhile...

Part II of the "Plan":

Let American soldiers continue to die on foreign soil doing NOTHING that actually defends our country

Now -theres- a plan any American can be proud of, huh??

sheesh

More left wing%&^%$^%^$#%..............................STILLLLLLL>>>>>>>>NO PLAN! Stay the course is a plan! it's just that you disagree with it. If you got a desk you might want to hide under it! Or are you to young to know what that means?

[DeadPoolX 9]

While I agree we need some direction in Iraq, we can't just "up and leave" either. To do so would be grossly irresponsible of the United States. The Iraqi people can't effectively defend themselves at this time, and until they can, we need to provide that support. Fortunately, we are trying to teach their defense forces the skills that they need to protect their nation, but it's going very slowly.

So we're stuck between a rock and a hard place. It's not a great situation, but it's one we're in now and we have to make the best of it and do what's right.

[Carol&Marc 0]

While I agree we need some direction in Iraq, we can't just "up and leave" either. To do so would be grossly irresponsible of the United States. The Iraqi people can't effectively defend themselves at this time, and until they can, we need to provide that support. Fortunately, we are trying to teach their defense forces the skills that they need to protect their nation, but it's going very slowly.

So we're stuck between a rock and a hard place. It's not a great situation, but it's one we're in now and we have to make the best of it and do what's right.

I agree whole heartedly! it's just that some have no concept!

[one...two...tree 2,762]

To me the best option is to split the country into 3 sections and get out of Dodge. I don't see how anyone getting control of the country without using Saddam like tactics. Saddam might be an @sshole, but there wasn't bombs going offing the street, unless it was ones we dropped.

[PurrSuede 0]

While I agree we need some direction in Iraq, we can't just "up and leave" either. To do so would be grossly irresponsible of the United States. The Iraqi people can't effectively defend themselves at this time, and until they can, we need to provide that support. Fortunately, we are trying to teach their defense forces the skills that they need to protect their nation, but it's going very slowly.

So we're stuck between a rock and a hard place. It's not a great situation, but it's one we're in now and we have to make the best of it and do what's right.

I agree whole heartedly! it's just that some have no concept!

Just exactly what does a concept matter when you're dead???

Oh yeah... ok... how's this???

George W. Bush, 10 months ago:

“And for every terrorist working to stop freedom in Iraq, there are many more Iraqis and Americans working to defeat them. My fellow citizens: Not only can we win the war in Iraq, we are winning the war in Iraq.”

White House Press Secretary Tony Snow, October 16th:

QUESTION: Just a simple question: Are we winning [in Iraq]?

SNOW: We’re making progress. I don’t know. How do you define winning?

Now there's a "Plan"....

::: yawn :::

[Carol&Marc 0]

To me the best option is to split the country into 3 sections and get out of Dodge. I don't see how anyone getting control of the country without using Saddam like tactics. Saddam might be an @sshole, but there wasn't bombs going offing the street, unless it was ones we dropped.

It's an interesting concept. I think there will be some issues with Al Queda stirrin things up.

[Ban Hammer 13,347]

Just exactly what does a concept matter when you're dead???

Oh yeah... ok... how's this???

George W. Bush, 10 months ago:

“And for every terrorist working to stop freedom in Iraq, there are many more Iraqis and Americans working to defeat them. My fellow citizens: Not only can we win the war in Iraq, we are winning the war in Iraq.”

White House Press Secretary Tony Snow, October 16th:

QUESTION: Just a simple question: Are we winning [in Iraq]?

SNOW: We’re making progress. I don’t know. How do you define winning?

Now there's a "Plan"....

::: yawn :::

yup, surely newsworthy when the press secretary does not toe the party line made 10 months ago

[Caladan 19]

Pssst. 'Cut and run' probably refers to a graduated pullout over two or three years. 'Cut and run' is a propaganda label. Normal people would refer to it as an exit strategy, something that any warlike undertaking should have had from the beginning.

The alternative seems to consist mostly of doing the same thing over and over again and hoping that maybe this time the results will change. Stay the course, stay the course, because you know, the last 1000 times we ran into the wall, I'm sure it'll be different this time.

[Carol&Marc 0]

While I agree we need some direction in Iraq, we can't just "up and leave" either. To do so would be grossly irresponsible of the United States. The Iraqi people can't effectively defend themselves at this time, and until they can, we need to provide that support. Fortunately, we are trying to teach their defense forces the skills that they need to protect their nation, but it's going very slowly.

So we're stuck between a rock and a hard place. It's not a great situation, but it's one we're in now and we have to make the best of it and do what's right.

I agree whole heartedly! it's just that some have no concept!

Just exactly what does a concept matter when you're dead???

Oh yeah... ok... how's this???

George W. Bush, 10 months ago:

“And for every terrorist working to stop freedom in Iraq, there are many more Iraqis and Americans working to defeat them. My fellow citizens: Not only can we win the war in Iraq, we are winning the war in Iraq.”

White House Press Secretary Tony Snow, October 16th:

QUESTION: Just a simple question: Are we winning [in Iraq]?

SNOW: We’re making progress. I don’t know. How do you define winning?

Now there's a "Plan"....

::: yawn :::

Here we go again? At least your helpin me out with more posts. Thanks!

[PurrSuede 0]

YEP, You made my POINT! NO PLAN!

Yeah, just like there's been NO PLAN! for the last five years either...

except I forgot...

Part I of the "Plan":

1. Stay the course.

2. Stay the course.

3. Stay the course.

4. Stay the course.

ad infinitum.... and meanwhile...

Part II of the "Plan":

Let American soldiers continue to die on foreign soil doing NOTHING that actually defends our country

Now -theres- a plan any American can be proud of, huh??

sheesh

More left wing%&^%$^%^$#%..............................STILLLLLLL>>>>>>>>NO PLAN! Stay the course is a plan! it's just that you disagree with it. If you got a desk you might want to hide under it! Or are you to young to know what that means?

No, I remember those same plans VERY well, except then we called that country Viet Nam... perhaps you might have heard of it...

And no, we weren't called "left wing" if we disagreed with that, in those days... we were called more interesting things like "pinko radical commie hippie subversive freaks..."

Of course, some of us actually defended our country with war-time service... did you?? How many of your high-school friends did YOU lose in 'Nam??? How many of your friends and generation came home in a body-bag or missing limbs or...

Of course, it turns out we were right then.... how many soldiers died -then- in a useless war, and you'd think we'd have learned our lesson??

Sorry if you find useless deaths to be "left-wing" propaganda... when someone is dead I think they are beyond an agenda of any sorts...

[one...two...tree 2,762]

A Plan to Hold Iraq Together

By Joseph R. Biden Jr.

Four months ago, in an opinion piece with Les Gelb, president emeritus of the Council on Foreign Relations, I laid out a detailed plan to keep Iraq together, protect America's interests and bring our troops home. Many experts here and in Iraq embraced our ideas. Since then, circumstances in Iraq have made the plan even more on target -- and urgent -- than when we first proposed it.

The new, central reality in Iraq is that violence between Shiites and Sunnis has surpassed the insurgency and foreign terrorists as the main security threat. Our leading civilian and military experts on Iraq -- Ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad and Gens. George Casey, Peter Pace and John Abizaid -- have all acknowledged that fact.

In December's elections, 90 percent of the votes went to sectarian lists. Ethnic militias increasingly are the law in Iraq. They have infiltrated the official security forces. Sectarian cleansing has begun in mixed areas, with 200,000 Iraqis fleeing their homes in recent months for fear of sectarian reprisals. Massive unemployment feeds the ranks of sectarian militias and criminal gangs.

No number of troops can solve this problem. The only way to hold Iraq together and create the conditions for our armed forces to responsibly withdraw is to give Shiites, Sunnis and Kurds incentives to pursue their interests peacefully and to forge a sustainable political settlement. Unfortunately, this administration does not have a coherent plan or any discernible strategy for success in Iraq. Its strategy is to prevent defeat and hand the problem off when it leaves office.

Meanwhile, more and more Americans, understandably frustrated, support an immediate withdrawal, even at the risk of trading a dictator for chaos and a civil war that could become a regional war.

Both are bad alternatives. The five-point plan Les Gelb and I laid out offers a better way.

First, the plan calls for maintaining a unified Iraq by decentralizing it and giving Kurds, Shiites and Sunnis their own regions. The central government would be left in charge of common interests, such as border security and the distribution of oil revenue.

Second, it would bind the Sunnis to the deal by guaranteeing them a proportionate share of oil revenue. Each group would have an incentive to maximize oil production, making oil the glue that binds the country together.

Third, the plan would create a massive jobs program while increasing reconstruction aid -- especially from the oil-rich Gulf states -- but tying it to the protection of minority rights.

Fourth, it would convene an international conference that would produce a regional nonaggression pact and create a Contact Group to enforce regional commitments.

Fifth, it would begin the phased redeployment of U.S. forces this year and withdraw most of them by the end of 2007, while maintaining a small follow-on force to keep the neighbors honest and to strike any concentration of terrorists.

This plan is consistent with Iraq's constitution, which already provides for the country's 18 provinces to join together in regions, with their own security forces and control over most day-to-day issues. This plan is the only idea on the table for dealing with the militias, which are likely to retreat to their respective regions instead of engaging in acts of violence. This plan is consistent with a strong central government that has clearly defined responsibilities. Indeed, it provides an agenda for that government, whose mere existence will not end sectarian violence. This plan is not partition -- in fact, it may be the only way to prevent violent partition and preserve a unified Iraq.

To be sure, this plan presents real challenges, especially with regard to large cities with mixed populations. We would maintain Baghdad as a federal city, belonging to no one region. And we would require international peacekeepers for other mixed cities to support local security forces and further protect minorities. The example of Bosnia is illustrative, if not totally analogous. Ten years ago, Bosnia was being torn apart by ethnic cleansing. The United States stepped in decisively with the Dayton Accords to keep the country whole by, paradoxically, dividing it into ethnic federations. We even allowed Muslims, Croats and Serbs to retain separate armies. With the help of U.S. troops and others, Bosnians have lived a decade in peace. Now they are strengthening their central government and disbanding their separate armies.

At best, the course we're on has no end in sight. At worst, it leads to a terrible civil war and possibly a regional war. This plan offers a way to bring our troops home, protect our security interests and preserve Iraq as a unified country. Those who reject this plan out of hand must answer one simple question: What is your alternative?

The writer is a senator from Delaware and the ranking Democrat on the Foreign Relations Committee.