Proxy Weddings valid for K1?

[kabdullah 0]

Salaam Alaikom,

My daughter has finally accepted her father's choice for a husband. My daughter will be the Petitioner, and her fiance the Beneficiary. As both my husband and I are working, we are concerned about letting our daughter fly to Amman where she will complete her marriage contract. Her Wakil will be from her father's side of the family. My question is if anyone has any experience working with a SKYPE or Proxy wedding and successful filing of a K1. Although my daughter is an American Citizen, her Fiancee is from Yemen, and currently a resident of Saudi Arabia. Does anyone have any information on how this may complicate their application?

Thank you,

Umm Mohammad Samier

[NigeriaorBust 4,087]

To file a K1 petition the two people must have met in person in the last 2 years. This is the main requirement ( other than they be free to marry and wish to marry each other ) A proxy wedding may be seen as making them no longer free to marry. Have they met in person in the last 24 months. This requirement can only be waived when both parties have long held beliefs that the couple can't even meet in the company of elders during the courtship. Proxy wedding are only allowed for a CR1 if consumated before filing.

[together4evr 360]

It is almost impossible to overcome the meet within 2 years requirement. So have him fly to mexico or somewhere that is not far from you and you all go meet, take many pictures, come back home and apply.

I think I have seen one applied due to medical reasons of being unable to travel and the fiance not being able to get a tourist visa anywhere. She tried 3 places nearby and got denied. But, I do not remember if it was approved or not.

Good luck

[NigeriaorBust 4,087]

It is almost impossible to overcome the meet within 2 years requirement. So have him fly to mexico or somewhere that is not far from you and you all go meet, take many pictures, come back home and apply.

I think I have seen one applied due to medical reasons of being unable to travel and the fiance not being able to get a tourist visa anywhere. She tried 3 places nearby and got denied. But, I do not remember if it was approved or not.

Good luck

Someone was bragging they did it without meeting a couple of months back but didn't offer any public details so I doubt it was legitimate.

[Sarah Elle-Même 660]

Question: Has your daughter ever met this man? If not, how can you say in good conscience that she has accepted this marriage?

Married people do not qualify for the K-1 visa. It is a fiance visa. Yemenis cannot claim cultural exception to the 2 year meeting requirement as it is customary and encouraged for the betrothed to meet each other in the presence of family members. And proxy marriages are not valid for a spouse (CR-1) visa. It needs to be a legal civil marriage with a government issued certificate. Your daughter needs to travel for the ceremony and to have it legally registered in the country where they get married. Your son in law can't do that without her. So either you or your husband take time off of work or you send her with a relative. Or send her alone and pay for her hotel room. I know plenty of Muslim women who travel alone no problem. There's no getting around this.

Also you need to understand that Yemenis (I assume your family is from there originally) do not have a stellar history when it comes to US immigration. All their cases are looked upon with suspicion of fraud. Your daughter and your future son in law need to prove to the Embassy that this marriage is for real and not simply so he can get a green card. Honestly him being from Yemen and moving to Saudi Arabia (I assume for work) isn't going to help your case either. It shows he has intent to immigrate for better economic opportunities. How exactly do you expect to prove a bonafide relationship if they didn't even get married in person or they don't meet each other while engaged? In addition to the marriage certificate, they need to provide proof that they act like a married couple - shared assets, phone call logs, emails, visits IN PERSON and photos, etc. You should read the visa guides on this website to see what is expected. If your daughter and future son in law can't convince the Embassy where he interviews of the legitimacy of their relationship his visa will be denied. Plain and simple.

[kabdullah 0]

To file a K1 petition the two people must have met in person in the last 2 years. This is the main requirement ( other than they be free to marry and wish to marry each other ) A proxy wedding may be seen as making them no longer free to marry. Have they met in person in the last 24 months. This requirement can only be waived when both parties have long held beliefs that the couple can't even meet in the company of elders during the courtship. Proxy wedding are only allowed for a CR1 if consumated before filing.

- I agree, and as we are Muslims, and the Sharia does not require that the parties be isolated from each other until after the marriage - they have spoken, skyped, etc. it would be no case for a waiver. Thank you for your response.

It is almost impossible to overcome the meet within 2 years requirement. So have him fly to mexico or somewhere that is not far from you and you all go meet, take many pictures, come back home and apply.

I think I have seen one applied due to medical reasons of being unable to travel and the fiance not being able to get a tourist visa anywhere. She tried 3 places nearby and got denied. But, I do not remember if it was approved or not.

Good luck

I like your Mexico idea - it would seem simpler than having us all fly to Jordan -

Good Luck to you too, and thank you!

[kabdullah 0]

Question: Has your daughter ever met this man? If not, how can you say in good conscience that she has accepted this marriage?

Married people do not qualify for the K-1 visa. It is a fiance visa. Yemenis cannot claim cultural exception to the 2 year meeting requirement as it is customary and encouraged for the betrothed to meet each other in the presence of family members. And proxy marriages are not valid for a spouse (CR-1) visa. It needs to be a legal civil marriage with a government issued certificate. Your daughter needs to travel for the ceremony and to have it legally registered in the country where they get married. Your son in law can't do that without her. So either you or your husband take time off of work or you send her with a relative. Or send her alone and pay for her hotel room. I know plenty of Muslim women who travel alone no problem. There's no getting around this.

Also you need to understand that Yemenis (I assume your family is from there originally) do not have a stellar history when it comes to US immigration. All their cases are looked upon with suspicion of fraud. Your daughter and your future son in law need to prove to the Embassy that this marriage is for real and not simply so he can get a green card. Honestly him being from Yemen and moving to Saudi Arabia (I assume for work) isn't going to help your case either. It shows he has intent to immigrate for better economic opportunities. How exactly do you expect to prove a bonafide relationship if they d

didn't even get married in person or they don't meet each other while engaged? In addition to the marriage certificate, they need to provide proof that they act like a married couple - shared assets, phone call logs, emails, visits IN PERSON and photos, etc. You should read the visa guides on this website to see what is expected. If your daughter and future son in law can't convince the Embassy where he interviews of the legitimacy of their relationship his visa will be denied. Plain and simple.

I'm going to assume that the tone of your communication was delivered with good intention, although somewhat acerbic. Of course I have read the guidelines, and am aware of the limitations of the K1. This query is a result of recent changes impacting the K1 Process regarding using Skype for Proxy Marriages. The question was: Does any one have any information or stories regarding people who have done this.

Secondly - As this is a legitimate marriage that has been planned for more than 5 years, actively for the past 3, there is plenty of documentation of the intentions and the relationship of my daughter and her fiancee. As I clearly stated we have plans to meet in Jordan, a shorter and more convenient venue where we all have family, the wedding will be registered there.Your comments regarding Yemenis quite frankly, I find a little difficult, and quite incorrect. His family has large business holdings in Saudi Arabia, but in fact live in Yemen in quiet and refined comfort. They will be completing their advanced degrees in the United States after marriage; his family is establishing a branch of their holdings here, and they will probably be traveling frequently between Yemen and their residence the United States. This is not a case of poor boy makes good, and marries American for green card, oh and by the way, our family is Yemeni, oh but oops we're Saudi nationals as well... Thanks again... And you should assume that before someone posts here that they have read the VISA Guides.

[N-o-l-a 7,167]

I'm going to assume that the tone of your communication was delivered with good intention, although somewhat acerbic. Of course I have read the guidelines, and am aware of the limitations of the K1. This query is a result of recent changes impacting the K1 Process regarding using Skype for Proxy Marriages. The question was: Does any one have any information or stories regarding people who have done this.

Either way, a K1 must result in the first and only marriage being done on American soil 90 days after entry on the visa. Doing a proxy marriage will negate that and make the person ineligible for the K1 visa, forcing them to start over by going after a CR1. When filing that CR1, that proxy marriage has to be consummated anyways.

I would just kind of rule out the proxy marriage for now. Go the traditional K1 route by having them meet in person, file the I-129F, and then get married in America or the CR1 route in which they will marry in person then file the I-130.

Edited March 25, 2013 by Nola123

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

I'm going to assume that the tone of your communication was delivered with good intention, although somewhat acerbic. Of course I have read the guidelines, and am aware of the limitations of the K1. This query is a result of recent changes impacting the K1 Process regarding using Skype for Proxy Marriages. The question was: Does any one have any information or stories regarding people who have done this.

Secondly - As this is a legitimate marriage that has been planned for more than 5 years, actively for the past 3, there is plenty of documentation of the intentions and the relationship of my daughter and her fiancee. As I clearly stated we have plans to meet in Jordan, a shorter and more convenient venue where we all have family, the wedding will be registered there.Your comments regarding Yemenis quite frankly, I find a little difficult, and quite incorrect. His family has large business holdings in Saudi Arabia, but in fact live in Yemen in quiet and refined comfort. They will be completing their advanced degrees in the United States after marriage; his family is establishing a branch of their holdings here, and they will probably be traveling frequently between Yemen and their residence the United States. This is not a case of poor boy makes good, and marries American for green card, oh and by the way, our family is Yemeni, oh but oops we're Saudi nationals as well... Thanks again... And you should assume that before someone posts here that they have read the VISA Guides.

Good response, except for that last sentence - in fact, you'd be amazed at how many people get on VJ and don't read the guides. It's really quite shocking. So don't bash us if that's the first thing we advise

Congratulations to your daughter on her upcoming marriage - wishing her all the happiness, and best of luck in her husband's immigration journey

Edited March 25, 2013 by wife_of_mahmoud

[Sarah Elle-Même 660]

Well what tone did you expect me to take saying things like "my daughter FINALLY accepted her FATHER'S choice for a husband"?

Very few new people read the guides before posting. If you did you'd know that a K-1 was for fiances only so I doubt you read them real carefully. I don't know what you are talking about when you say recent changes impacting the K-1 process with skyped proxy marriages because again, it is a visa for UNMARRIED fiances. Any hint of a marriage, proxy or not, and the embassy will deny a K-1 and ban your future son in law for LIFE for misrepresentation. It happens in Yemen and to Yemenis in other countries. And FYI I have been entrenched in the Yemeni community in Brooklyn for years. I know exactly what they face when it comes to US immigration. Many people have abused the system in the past so now they crack down hard. It doesn't matter if your daughter's future husband is a rich man. I'm sure you are aware most Yemenis living in Saudi Arabia are struggling to make ends meet for their families so it wasn't a totally out of the ballpark assumption for me to make. Still, I gave good advice on how your daughter and your son in law can present their case in the best way possible as a bonafide marriage. It is the biggest obstacle they will have to overcome.

Take it or leave it I don't really care. I wish your daughter the best.

- I agree, and as we are Muslims, and the Sharia does not require that the parties be isolated from each other until after the marriage - they have spoken, skyped, etc. it would be no case for a waiver. Thank you for your response.

They must have met IN PERSON in the last 2 years and you must have proof of this. Skype and phone calls don't count.

Edited March 25, 2013 by Sarah and Adnan

[NigeriaorBust 4,087]

So based on your latest posts. No they can't file a K1 if they have not been in the very same room at the very same time in the last 2 years. There are no changes because of Skype and proxy marriage is only allowed in 3 states in the US and not for immigation purposes unless comsumated before filing. If you plan on having a wedding/marriage outside the US you must wait until after the wedding to file a CR1. It will then take about a year for the husband to get his visa.

[Mithra 1,185]

For an American that sounds pretty strange but for Yemeni families, as I'm sure you know, it's perfectly normal and acceptable. The OP is Yemeni as is the fiance/husband to be. The only thing I'm confused about is this talk of a K1 when clearly the OP is talking about marriage.

Kind of OT but my oldest son is approaching the age where his dad is talking to him about marriage (he's almost 17). He has informed his father that he is not interested in marrying a girl from Yemen, in fact he is not interested in marrying an Arab girl at all. His father is none too pleased. Personally, I think it's WAY too early to be talking marriage at this point anyways. In fact, it bothers me to be honest but I do understand that it's pretty normal, culturally speaking.

Well what tone did you expect me to take saying things like "my daughter FINALLY accepted her FATHER'S choice for a husband"?

Very few new people read the guides before posting. If you did you'd know that a K-1 was for fiances only so I doubt you read them real carefully. I don't know what you are talking about when you say recent changes impacting the K-1 process with skyped proxy marriages because again, it is a visa for UNMARRIED fiances. Any hint of a marriage, proxy or not, and the embassy will deny a K-1 and ban your future son in law for LIFE for misrepresentation. It happens in Yemen and to Yemenis in other countries. And FYI I have been entrenched in the Yemeni community in Brooklyn for years. I know exactly what they face when it comes to US immigration. Many people have abused the system in the past so now they crack down hard. It doesn't matter if your daughter's future husband is a rich man. I'm sure you are aware most Yemenis living in Saudi Arabia are struggling to make ends meet for their families so it wasn't a totally out of the ballpark assumption for me to make. Still, I gave good advice on how your daughter and your son in law can present their case in the best way possible as a bonafide marriage. It is the biggest obstacle they will have to overcome.

Take it or leave it I don't really care. I wish your daughter the best.

They must have met IN PERSON in the last 2 years and you must have proof of this. Skype and phone calls don't count.

[Sarah Elle-Même 660]

For an American that sounds pretty strange but for Yemeni families, as I'm sure you know, it's perfectly normal and acceptable. The OP is Yemeni as is the fiance/husband to be. The only thing I'm confused about is this talk of a K1 when clearly the OP is talking about marriage.

Kind of OT but my oldest son is approaching the age where his dad is talking to him about marriage (he's almost 17). He has informed his father that he is not interested in marrying a girl from Yemen, in fact he is not interested in marrying an Arab girl at all. His father is none too pleased. Personally, I think it's WAY too early to be talking marriage at this point anyways. In fact, it bothers me to be honest but I do understand that it's pretty normal, culturally speaking.

I was operating under the assumption that the betrothed have never met in person, because that's what the OP alluded to. I won't debate her parents rights to browbeat her into marrying the man of their choice. It is a part of their culture but when immigrants make the choice to move to America and choose have their children grow up here they need to expect they won't turn out the same as they would in the old country. Hell, even the younger generation in the old country ignores their parents wishes (ahem.. like my fiance)! I know several 2nd generation Yemeni women who are either miserable in their arranged marriages or have already divorced. Others I know are happy but the trend seems to be they knew their husbands beforehand well enough that they didn't need convincing from their parents. Younger generations are always torn between old and new ways.

Back to the OP - she was the one who brought up the K-1 and if a proxy marriage over skype would complicate it. I think she now understands that a marriage of any kind would definitely complicate the K-1. Her daughter has the same options as everyone else - fiance or spouse petition. Both of those options require meeting in person because a skype nikkah isn't a valid marriage. So they can either take time off of work to travel or send her off with a relative to marry this guy, OR they can look for another potential spouse they deem suitable who is already living in the US. I kinda doubt he'd be able to come here on a tourist visa, rich or not.

Edited March 25, 2013 by Sarah and Adnan

[Darnell 8,478]

proxy marriages are a slippery slope, for K-1 visa chasers and CR-1 visa chasers, alike.

Instead of the proxy stuff, whilst chasing a K-1 - why not, instead, have the lass go over and visit the fella, face to face?

an engagement party can be had, sure, but lay off the proxy marriage stuff for the nonce (IMO ) .

Generally, a proxy marriage confused the heck out of the IV Staffers, those vice-consuls handling the Visa Interview at a US Embassy or Consulate.

For a K-1, it's considered 'just enough married' to deny the K-1 visa application (usually...)

for a CR-1, it's 'not enough married' unless there's proof that the marriage has been consummated.

Edited March 25, 2013 by Darnell

[Mithra 1,185]

It depends on the family. Because all members are Yemeni or at least Arab I wouldn't assume that they have acclimated to a Western way of thinking or behaving. Heck even my half Yemeni kids are expected to have "old country" values and opinions. My ex isn't even from a poor villager family. He's from a very large, affluential family but he still has old country values.

I was operating under the assumption that the betrothed have never met in person, because that's what the OP alluded to. I won't debate her parents rights to browbeat her into marrying the man of their choice. It is a part of their culture but when immigrants make the choice to move to America and choose have their children grow up here they need to expect they won't turn out the same as they would in the old country. Hell, even the younger generation in the old country ignores their parents wishes (ahem.. like my fiance)! I know several 2nd generation Yemeni women who are either miserable in their arranged marriages or have already divorced. Others I know are happy but the trend seems to be they knew their husbands beforehand well enough that they didn't need convincing from their parents. Younger generations are always torn between old and new ways.

Back to the OP - she was the one who brought up the K-1 and if a proxy marriage over skype would complicate it. I think she now understands that a marriage of any kind would definitely complicate the K-1. Her daughter has the same options as everyone else - fiance or spouse petition. Both of those options require meeting in person because a skype nikkah isn't a valid marriage. So they can either take time off of work to travel or send her off with a relative to marry this guy, OR they can look for another potential spouse they deem suitable who is already living in the US. I kinda doubt he'd be able to come here on a tourist visa, rich or not.