Al Qaeda seeking nuclear kit for attacks-UK official

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Swap "competent laywer" for an "unscrupulous lawyer" and I'll agree to that.

*hee hee*

Competency and scruples are not necessarily one and the same in the profession.

In the sense of what we're talking about here - its usually the unscrupulous lawyers who are the most competent...

Well, sort of. I mean I see your perspective. It's usually not viewed as 'unscrupulous' though. It's called advocacy.

The government has shown itself willing to use trial lawyers to twist legalities, whilst attacking those representing former Guantanamo detainees of doing the exact same thing.

[Dean iWait 0]

More BS. Our constitution is being taken apart. There is nothing wrong with questioning what the government is doing but to draw compairsons to Nazi Germany is wrong and insulting. It looks like you fall into the paranoid class.

Gary, I respectfully disagree. The constitution gives us the right to question what our government does by giving us free speech. Our right to bear arms was created so that the citizenry could protect itself against an oppressive regime.

If we DON'T question our government then we are worse than paranoid - we are placated.

Becca I never said we shouldn't question the govenment. To question is a good thing. But fishies hysteria goes way beyond questioning and into distorting.

It's his opinion and he's entitled to it. Under the First Amendment. Just as you are entitled to yours.

Look at the Fourth Amendment and tell me if you think the Patriot Act doesn't start to get into that a bit.

A simple analysis of the Constitution reveals something very startling. The first Article is about Congress itself and the representation it provides citizens. The powers of the Executive branch come later with a small wave of the pen towards government Departments, which in my opinion are driving too much of the Washington machinery now. Perhaps an error our founding fathers made? Or a sign of too much power being usurped by Executive?

I think where the left and I depart is in terms of who is protected under our constitution. Our constitution was meant to protect US citizens and people lawfully here. The patriot act and other measures take aim at people outside our country and people her illegaly.

Gary, you might feel differently about that once you start filing for Luzy's AOS.

She's unprotected by the constitution until she has her greencard. The Patriot Act and any other legislations pushed through, either outright or added onto as amendments, could effectively be used to remove her from this country. A competent lawyer could argue the Patriot Act even against greencard holders.

Ponder those thoughts for a while and then get back to me.

I'm guessing Luz is not a criminal nor is she suspected of being a terrorist nor will she ever be suspected of being either. Neither is Sheryl so I'm not worried in the least. I would hate to have to live my life being so paranoid and fearful of my own government. It's sad to see that some people do live that way.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I'm guessing Luz is not a criminal nor is she suspected of being a terrorist nor will she ever be suspected of being either. Neither is Sheryl so I'm not worried in the least. I would hate to have to live my life being so paranoid and fearful of my own government. It's sad to see that some people do live that way.

I guess Khalid El-Masri had nothing to worry about either

[Dean iWait 0]

I'm guessing Luz is not a criminal nor is she suspected of being a terrorist nor will she ever be suspected of being either. Neither is Sheryl so I'm not worried in the least. I would hate to have to live my life being so paranoid and fearful of my own government. It's sad to see that some people do live that way.

I guess Khalid El-Masri had nothing to worry about either

Don't know any terrorists named Sheryl.

Edited November 16, 2006 by Dean iWait

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I'm guessing Luz is not a criminal nor is she suspected of being a terrorist nor will she ever be suspected of being either. Neither is Sheryl so I'm not worried in the least. I would hate to have to live my life being so paranoid and fearful of my own government. It's sad to see that some people do live that way.

I guess Khalid El-Masri had nothing to worry about either

Don't know any terrorists named Sheryl.

No - but Cat Stevens was kicked off a flight last year for being on some sort of security "no-fly" list.

[rebeccajo 14]

I'm guessing Luz is not a criminal nor is she suspected of being a terrorist nor will she ever be suspected of being either. Neither is Sheryl so I'm not worried in the least. I would hate to have to live my life being so paranoid and fearful of my own government. It's sad to see that some people do live that way.

Dean, it's not paranoia.

Maybe it's just me, but after I became involved with someone who isn't a native-born American, I became more interested in the protections afforded us by our birthright. It's interesting to me how our married life could be interrupted or questioned because he's not a USC. I think if you look at it beneath the surface, you'll understand what I mean.

It's sort of the same point I was trying to make with you one other time when we misunderstood one another. Once the awfulness of separation is over, and you and your wife are together, her immigration journey takes on another level. As a good husband I'm sure you want to make sure she has all the protections this government can offer her. And I'm sure you don't want to see any of those protections in jeopardy because laws were written that could possibly take away from those protections.

[GaryC 7]

More BS. Our constitution is being taken apart. There is nothing wrong with questioning what the government is doing but to draw compairsons to Nazi Germany is wrong and insulting. It looks like you fall into the paranoid class.

Gary, I respectfully disagree. The constitution gives us the right to question what our government does by giving us free speech. Our right to bear arms was created so that the citizenry could protect itself against an oppressive regime.

If we DON'T question our government then we are worse than paranoid - we are placated.

Becca I never said we shouldn't question the govenment. To question is a good thing. But fishies hysteria goes way beyond questioning and into distorting.

It's his opinion and he's entitled to it. Under the First Amendment. Just as you are entitled to yours.

Look at the Fourth Amendment and tell me if you think the Patriot Act doesn't start to get into that a bit.

A simple analysis of the Constitution reveals something very startling. The first Article is about Congress itself and the representation it provides citizens. The powers of the Executive branch come later with a small wave of the pen towards government Departments, which in my opinion are driving too much of the Washington machinery now. Perhaps an error our founding fathers made? Or a sign of too much power being usurped by Executive?

I think where the left and I depart is in terms of who is protected under our constitution. Our constitution was meant to protect US citizens and people lawfully here. The patriot act and other measures take aim at people outside our country and people her illegaly.

Gary, you might feel differently about that once you start filing for Luzy's AOS.

She's unprotected by the constitution until she has her greencard. The Patriot Act and any other legislations pushed through, either outright or added onto as amendments, could effectively be used to remove her from this country. A competent lawyer could argue the Patriot Act even against greencard holders.

Ponder those thoughts for a while and then get back to me.

As long as she does nothing to threaten America she has nothing to worry about. I am not scared by the Patriot Act. I want it strengthend.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

As long as she does nothing to threaten America she has nothing to worry about. I am not scared by the Patriot Act. I want it strengthend.

Is that because you hear "Patriot Act" and think it has something to do with Patriotism?

[GaryC 7]

As long as she does nothing to threaten America she has nothing to worry about. I am not scared by the Patriot Act. I want it strengthend.

Is that because you hear "Patriot Act" and think it has something to do with Patriotism?

I know what is in the Patriot Act. The name means nothing. I agree with it totaly.

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

A friend of mine once got detained at the airport overnight on suspician of drug smuggling. The authorities released her when they realized that the ##### Johnson they were looking for was of another race entirely. It took them 27 hours to come to this conclusion.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

A friend of mine once got detained at the airport overnight on suspician of drug smuggling. The authorities released her when they realized that the ##### Johnson they were looking for was of another race entirely. It took them 27 hours to come to this conclusion.

There was 70 year old British pensioner who got his identity scammed by a con artist in the US and was detained in a Turkish prison for several days before the FBI decided to get their act together and send someone to ID him - only to discover of course that it wasn't the right guy...

[rebeccajo 14]

More BS. Our constitution is being taken apart. There is nothing wrong with questioning what the government is doing but to draw compairsons to Nazi Germany is wrong and insulting. It looks like you fall into the paranoid class.

Gary, I respectfully disagree. The constitution gives us the right to question what our government does by giving us free speech. Our right to bear arms was created so that the citizenry could protect itself against an oppressive regime.

If we DON'T question our government then we are worse than paranoid - we are placated.

Becca I never said we shouldn't question the govenment. To question is a good thing. But fishies hysteria goes way beyond questioning and into distorting.

It's his opinion and he's entitled to it. Under the First Amendment. Just as you are entitled to yours.

Look at the Fourth Amendment and tell me if you think the Patriot Act doesn't start to get into that a bit.

A simple analysis of the Constitution reveals something very startling. The first Article is about Congress itself and the representation it provides citizens. The powers of the Executive branch come later with a small wave of the pen towards government Departments, which in my opinion are driving too much of the Washington machinery now. Perhaps an error our founding fathers made? Or a sign of too much power being usurped by Executive?

I think where the left and I depart is in terms of who is protected under our constitution. Our constitution was meant to protect US citizens and people lawfully here. The patriot act and other measures take aim at people outside our country and people her illegaly.

Gary, you might feel differently about that once you start filing for Luzy's AOS.

She's unprotected by the constitution until she has her greencard. The Patriot Act and any other legislations pushed through, either outright or added onto as amendments, could effectively be used to remove her from this country. A competent lawyer could argue the Patriot Act even against greencard holders.

Ponder those thoughts for a while and then get back to me.

As long as she does nothing to threaten America she has nothing to worry about. I am not scared by the Patriot Act. I want it strengthend.

Gary, you know how things are not always so simple? How legislation sometimes has layers?

HR4437, as it was first written, had a clause in it that an immigrant out of status was a felon. And that anyone aware of that immigrants illegal presence could be charged with aiding and abetting.

What did that mean? It meant that your wife, until she had her green card (technically an out of status immigrant) could be removed. And that you could be charged with aiding and abetting.

The Senate struck that provision with their version of the bill. So the whole scenario, which is far-out I admit, is now moot.

And you will also find, if you study stories of couples who are mired in immigration snafus, that they have done nothing 'wrong' - but that they are caught in the crossfire of paperwork and varying interpretations of laws.

The only point I am trying to make is that when you muck with Constitutional liberties, you are treading dangerous ground.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

As long as she does nothing to threaten America she has nothing to worry about. I am not scared by the Patriot Act. I want it strengthend.

Is that because you hear "Patriot Act" and think it has something to do with Patriotism?

I know what is in the Patriot Act. The name means nothing. I agree with it totaly.

Even those parts which were determined to be "unconstitutionally vague"?

I'm still wondering how the government can sign the Patriot Act into law, then months later try to put Dubai Ports World in operation control of the country's ports, and thereby unwittingly shine a spotlight on a massive hole in our internal security, that they have done precisely diddly squat about.

[GaryC 7]

As long as she does nothing to threaten America she has nothing to worry about. I am not scared by the Patriot Act. I want it strengthend.

Is that because you hear "Patriot Act" and think it has something to do with Patriotism?

I know what is in the Patriot Act. The name means nothing. I agree with it totaly.

Even those parts which were determined to be "unconstitutionally vague"?

I'm still wondering how the government can sign the Patriot Act into law, then months later try to put Dubai Ports World in operation control of the country's ports, and thereby unwittingly shine a spotlight on a massive hole in our internal security, that they have done precisely diddly squat about.

Yep, even the parts that are vauge. The Dubai ports deal was a tempest in a tea pot. Dubai would only take over operations. Security would have still been in the hands of Americans. That was just liberal spin and you fell for it.

[rebeccajo 14]

I would love to stay up with you all and continue this discussion. At least it's enlightening and nobody is throwing personal barbs. BUT...

Wes and I have to get up at 5 am so we make it in time for a second set of fingerprints for him. Because we had to file for a renewal of his EAD so that he can continue to work legally in this country, since his AOS is not complete. Because he is stuck in namecheck, a black hole from which he can't emerge until the FBI releases him. A black hole which no elected representative can extract him from. A black hole which means he is technically an out-of-status immigrant with no Constitutional protections.

I want my liberties protected. I don't want my government fiddling around with them in any way, shape or form.