Al Qaeda seeking nuclear kit for attacks-UK official

[rebeccajo 14]

i believe what he's saying is civil rights don't mean anything to the dead........

I've got a 20 that says it does to the survivors of our fallen service men.

Edited November 16, 2006 by rebeccajo

[GaryC 7]

So you say. I guess there's nothing to be learned from history - or should I say, "the pre-color TV era".

I am a very strong advocate of history. I believe in the statement "those who forget history and destine to repeat it". I am saying it's not a correct analogy to bring the Nazi's into it. Your just trying to get an emotional response. Your trying to get people to think, OMG! NAZI'S!!! We must not let this happen!! Lets stop these new security measures before it's to late!!

Intelectual BS.

[rebeccajo 14]

More BS. Our constitution is being taken apart. There is nothing wrong with questioning what the government is doing but to draw compairsons to Nazi Germany is wrong and insulting. It looks like you fall into the paranoid class.

Gary, I respectfully disagree. The constitution gives us the right to question what our government does by giving us free speech. Our right to bear arms was created so that the citizenry could protect itself against an oppressive regime.

If we DON'T question our government then we are worse than paranoid - we are placated.

[GaryC 7]

More BS. Our constitution is being taken apart. There is nothing wrong with questioning what the government is doing but to draw compairsons to Nazi Germany is wrong and insulting. It looks like you fall into the paranoid class.

Gary, I respectfully disagree. The constitution gives us the right to question what our government does by giving us free speech. Our right to bear arms was created so that the citizenry could protect itself against an oppressive regime.

If we DON'T question our government then we are worse than paranoid - we are placated.

Becca I never said we shouldn't question the govenment. To question is a good thing. But fishies hysteria goes way beyond questioning and into distorting.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

So you say. I guess there's nothing to be learned from history - or should I say, "the pre-color TV era".

I am a very strong advocate of history. I believe in the statement "those who forget history and destine to repeat it". I am saying it's not a correct analogy to bring the Nazi's into it. Your just trying to get an emotional response. Your trying to get people to think, OMG! NAZI'S!!! We must not let this happen!! Lets stop these new security measures before it's to late!!

Intelectual BS.

The only emotional response, came from you - not me. And this is from the guy who endorse torture, then decries claims that the Bush administration having carried it out.

Secret Prisons, Denial of due process of law - all part of a healthy democratic system

BTW - who was it who was prepared to ignore the decision of the Florida Supreme Court to score political points?

More BS. Our constitution is being taken apart. There is nothing wrong with questioning what the government is doing but to draw compairsons to Nazi Germany is wrong and insulting. It looks like you fall into the paranoid class.

Gary, I respectfully disagree. The constitution gives us the right to question what our government does by giving us free speech. Our right to bear arms was created so that the citizenry could protect itself against an oppressive regime.

If we DON'T question our government then we are worse than paranoid - we are placated.

Becca I never said we shouldn't question the govenment. To question is a good thing. But fishies hysteria goes way beyond questioning and into distorting.

I could say the same about your distorted view of much of the wider world - For all intents and purposes:

Here be Dragons!

[Heracles 417]

The reason I mentioned the Holocaust is because it illustrates the need to be politically active - to oppose oppressive measures that weaken our democratic freedoms.

So what does one do to protect themselves when someone is out to see their death??

and you know their not bluffing as their actions have shown they are dead serious...

Edited November 16, 2006 by Infidel

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

The reason I mentioned the Holocaust is because it illustrates the need to be politically active - to oppose oppressive measures that weaken our democratic freedoms.

So what does one do to protect themselves when someone is out to see their death??

Firstly, by breaking the law or sidestepping it entirely; and secondly, by aggressively repealing decades worth of human rights legislation.

Apparently.

[Heracles 417]

The reason I mentioned the Holocaust is because it illustrates the need to be politically active - to oppose oppressive measures that weaken our democratic freedoms.

So what does one do to protect themselves when someone is out to see their death??

Firstly, by breaking the law or sidestepping it entirely; and secondly, by aggressively repealing decades worth of human rights legislation.

Apparently.

Thought so. Much like Bush is Bad, we need change etc..

Funny how during my recent trip to London I noticed that their security was five times that of the US.. It seems everyone else around the world has smartened up. That is apart from certain ignorant, blog reading people who are living in denial.. How can anyone sit here and say it is wrong to protect their life and ensure their security.. Even an animal understands this concept..

Edited November 16, 2006 by Infidel

[rebeccajo 14]

More BS. Our constitution is being taken apart. There is nothing wrong with questioning what the government is doing but to draw compairsons to Nazi Germany is wrong and insulting. It looks like you fall into the paranoid class.

Gary, I respectfully disagree. The constitution gives us the right to question what our government does by giving us free speech. Our right to bear arms was created so that the citizenry could protect itself against an oppressive regime.

If we DON'T question our government then we are worse than paranoid - we are placated.

Becca I never said we shouldn't question the govenment. To question is a good thing. But fishies hysteria goes way beyond questioning and into distorting.

It's his opinion and he's entitled to it. Under the First Amendment. Just as you are entitled to yours.

Look at the Fourth Amendment and tell me if you think the Patriot Act doesn't start to get into that a bit.

A simple analysis of the Constitution reveals something very startling. The first Article is about Congress itself and the representation it provides citizens. The powers of the Executive branch come later with a small wave of the pen towards government Departments, which in my opinion are driving too much of the Washington machinery now. Perhaps an error our founding fathers made? Or a sign of too much power being usurped by Executive?

[GaryC 7]

More BS. Our constitution is being taken apart. There is nothing wrong with questioning what the government is doing but to draw compairsons to Nazi Germany is wrong and insulting. It looks like you fall into the paranoid class.

Gary, I respectfully disagree. The constitution gives us the right to question what our government does by giving us free speech. Our right to bear arms was created so that the citizenry could protect itself against an oppressive regime.

If we DON'T question our government then we are worse than paranoid - we are placated.

Becca I never said we shouldn't question the govenment. To question is a good thing. But fishies hysteria goes way beyond questioning and into distorting.

It's his opinion and he's entitled to it. Under the First Amendment. Just as you are entitled to yours.

Look at the Fourth Amendment and tell me if you think the Patriot Act doesn't start to get into that a bit.

A simple analysis of the Constitution reveals something very startling. The first Article is about Congress itself and the representation it provides citizens. The powers of the Executive branch come later with a small wave of the pen towards government Departments, which in my opinion are driving too much of the Washington machinery now. Perhaps an error our founding fathers made? Or a sign of too much power being usurped by Executive?

I think where the left and I depart is in terms of who is protected under our constitution. Our constitution was meant to protect US citizens and people lawfully here. The patriot act and other measures take aim at people outside our country and people her illegaly.

[rebeccajo 14]

More BS. Our constitution is being taken apart. There is nothing wrong with questioning what the government is doing but to draw compairsons to Nazi Germany is wrong and insulting. It looks like you fall into the paranoid class.

Gary, I respectfully disagree. The constitution gives us the right to question what our government does by giving us free speech. Our right to bear arms was created so that the citizenry could protect itself against an oppressive regime.

If we DON'T question our government then we are worse than paranoid - we are placated.

Becca I never said we shouldn't question the govenment. To question is a good thing. But fishies hysteria goes way beyond questioning and into distorting.

It's his opinion and he's entitled to it. Under the First Amendment. Just as you are entitled to yours.

Look at the Fourth Amendment and tell me if you think the Patriot Act doesn't start to get into that a bit.

A simple analysis of the Constitution reveals something very startling. The first Article is about Congress itself and the representation it provides citizens. The powers of the Executive branch come later with a small wave of the pen towards government Departments, which in my opinion are driving too much of the Washington machinery now. Perhaps an error our founding fathers made? Or a sign of too much power being usurped by Executive?

I think where the left and I depart is in terms of who is protected under our constitution. Our constitution was meant to protect US citizens and people lawfully here. The patriot act and other measures take aim at people outside our country and people her illegaly.

Gary, you might feel differently about that once you start filing for Luzy's AOS.

She's unprotected by the constitution until she has her greencard. The Patriot Act and any other legislations pushed through, either outright or added onto as amendments, could effectively be used to remove her from this country. A competent lawyer could argue the Patriot Act even against greencard holders.

Ponder those thoughts for a while and then get back to me.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

The reason I mentioned the Holocaust is because it illustrates the need to be politically active - to oppose oppressive measures that weaken our democratic freedoms.

So what does one do to protect themselves when someone is out to see their death??

Firstly, by breaking the law or sidestepping it entirely; and secondly, by aggressively repealing decades worth of human rights legislation.

Apparently.

Thought so. Much like Bush is Bad, we need change etc..

Funny how during my recent trip to London I noticed that their security was five times that of the US.. It seems everyone else around the world has smartened up. That is apart from certain ignorant, blog reading people who are living in denial.. How can anyone sit here and say it is wrong to protect their life and ensure their security.. Even an animal understands this concept..

What aspect of London security are you talking about here? Airport security sure - but tell me exactly how one is supposed to protect against say, a suicide bomber in the London underground or at Liverpool Street Station or Waterloo. Stations are public places - nearly everyone carries a bag. What's your solution?

Even the poster ads notifying people to "look out for suspicious" baggage portray an abandoned suitcase in a nearly empty train car - with a guy going "is this your bag mate?".

Its the equivalent of "duck and cover". If someone is really determined - they will do it.

Hence I'm all for robust security when it comes to immigration and scrutinising foreign travellers, but the nature of mass transit makes it impossible. Even with the new security arrangements that are in place - the TSA cannot screen every bag. Hence my wife was able to get on the plane with a folding pocket knife in her purse that she'd forgotten to put in checked baggage.

Gary, you might feel differently about that once you start filing for Luzy's AOS.

She's unprotected by the constitution until she has her greencard. The Patriot Act and any other legislations pushed through, either outright or added onto as amendments, could effectively be used to remove her from this country. A competent lawyer could argue the Patriot Act even against greencard holders.

Ponder those thoughts for a while and then get back to me.

Swap "competent laywer" for an "unscrupulous lawyer" and I'll agree to that. The problem with the Patriot Act is that it is highly ambiguous and does not clearly define what constitutes 'reasonable cause'. Hence as I said, 'reasonable cause' could be turned around, if the political climate is right, to include anyone who says anything even remotely critical of the government.

Just because it isn't that way now, does not mean it may not become so in the future - and you have the very mechanism to subvert the foundation of your democracy. Paranoid. Its happened before - but those comparisons are 'insulting' apparently

[rebeccajo 14]

Swap "competent laywer" for an "unscrupulous lawyer" and I'll agree to that.

*hee hee*

Competency and scruples are not necessarily one and the same in the profession.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Swap "competent laywer" for an "unscrupulous lawyer" and I'll agree to that.

*hee hee*

Competency and scruples are not necessarily one and the same in the profession.

In the sense of what we're talking about here - its usually the unscrupulous lawyers who are the most competent...

[rebeccajo 14]

Swap "competent laywer" for an "unscrupulous lawyer" and I'll agree to that.

*hee hee*

Competency and scruples are not necessarily one and the same in the profession.

In the sense of what we're talking about here - its usually the unscrupulous lawyers who are the most competent...

Well, sort of. I mean I see your perspective. It's usually not viewed as 'unscrupulous' though. It's called advocacy.