Two teens found guilty in Steubenville rape case

[decocker 7,198]

Your just wrong, it's only is cases like this where people ask questions about her lack of judgement.

is that why so many rapes go unreported? hmm

[Villanelle 4,122]

IN with your few good points is a lot of speculation on the circumstances of the case.

Anyone who watches the party tape will knows the girl was taken advantage of and if you watch the convicted boys speak after they were found guilty it seems that the one kid is still only owning up to taking the photo.

The idea that girls will be safe to pass out at parties when we "teach enough boys not to rape" .. is folly.

In fact if that method works, why not extend this education to all people who commit crime?

This education and respect for women is learned at home, if it is to be learned at all.

BUt in the end, as long as we know there are those among us who will seize an opportunity to harm others for their own desires

we do best to warn girls of this reality.

It takes a perverted agenda to do other wise, and unknowing teens are paying the price.

Im not sure what parts of the case you think Im speculating on. There are many many articles online explaining what went on in court, as well as many many clips on social media sites. Perhaps you feel Im taking the victims side? Perhaps you feel the boys are innocent? I really dont know. If you feel I described something inaccurately that transpired- correct it. Otherwise, this is what the prosecution stated happened. The defendants were found guilty of such. So as far as Im concerned, its not so much speculation as it is what most likely occurred as they were found guilty.

Moving on-

It seems you believe that the only way to prevent rape is to educate women on how not be victims. Youre stating that rape is going to be a given violence so why bother educating boys that its wrong? If they didnt learn at home that violence against women is wrong then its too late. They are already corrupt and theres no hope in teaching them later on.

With that logic- I suppose theres no hope of rehabilitation for anyone. Not criminals, not druggies, not sinners of any kind. The set of morals your born with or your parents teach you- thats it. You can never be any better then that. You cant grow or learn. Forget education. Forget bettering yourself.

Of course there are going to be people in the world that are going to hurt others for their own personal gain. But just like theft and assault and carjackings, rape should be a possible violence that can occur during your lifetime- not a given violence.

[Danno 1,228]

Im not sure what parts of the case you think Im speculating on.

Moving on-

It seems you believe that the only way to prevent rape is to educate women on how not be victims. Youre stating that rape is going to be a given violence so why bother educating boys that its wrong? If they didnt learn at home that violence against women is wrong then its too late. They are already corrupt and theres no hope in teaching them later on.

With that logic- I suppose theres no hope of rehabilitation for anyone. Not criminals, not druggies, not sinners of any kind. The set of morals your born with or your parents teach you- thats it. You can never be any better then that. You cant grow or learn. Forget education. Forget bettering yourself.

Of course there are going to be people in the world that are going to hurt others for their own personal gain. But just like theft and assault and carjackings, rape should be a possible violence that can occur during your lifetime- not a given violence.

Your post speculated on why the Authorities took the action they did. And a number of other such claims which I thought overall discredited objectivity.

If you believe that "rehabilitation" has such great promise , I would assume you would hire baby sitters who are known sex offenders that have gone through re-hab.

My aim to to "minimize" known risks. That does not mean I believe "there is no hope for people to change" .... you just don't place vulnerable teens in this experiment to find out.

[Villanelle 4,122]

I never said my summary of the events that transpired in Ohio was a copy and paste of an unbiased factual news report. If my disgust for what happened shone through as I explained the facts and you felt it tainted the objectivity of the facts- then thats your problem. The facts are still the facts whether I paint them to be ugly or pretty.

Regarding whether Anon triggered the authorities to take action, or influenced the outcome of the trial. I believe they did. You can believe they didnt. Look at the timeline at what happened.

August 11th, 2012 - The alleged rape takes place.

August 22nd, 2012 - The crime makes local news. Two boys are arrested and subsequently late charged. Instantly things that were posted online are being deleted, as its attempted to being covered up.

October 31st, 2012 - A crime blogger is sued for posting about the case

The lawsuit is filed against Alexandria Goddard of Columbus, Ohio, the owner of prinniefied.com, claiming she posted false, defamatory, and libelous statements on her blog about Mays and Richmond. The lawsuit states: The making of such false, defamatory and libelous statements by defendants was so outrageous in character and so extreme in degree as to go beyond all possible bounds of decency, and to be regarded as atrocious and utterly intolerable in a civilized community

November 2nd, 2012 - The two charged with rape are released from juvenile detention

December 16th, 2012 - A New York Times piece is written about it

December 17th, 2012 - Deadspin picks up the story. The deadspin article collected tweets regarding the incident, however they had been deleted after the article.

December 23rd, 2012 - An Anonymous offshoot called Knight Sec leaks the records of 50,000 Ohio residents With the massive leak, a larger picture of possible corruption emerges. In the Pastebin document the group posts, they include the following warning to the residents of Steubenville: Your justice system is broke and needs to be fixed maybe this might help a little. Bring justice to the girl who was raped ! all the following needs to go to jail! Michael nodianos,Cody Saltsman,Jake Howarth,Jordan Banks,Ryan Vodich,Harold Malone,John Linn,Dashon Redman,Anthony Craig,Evan Westlake,Mark Cole,Malik Richmond,Trent Mays, and who ever else was involved this what you did is wrong and will not be forgiven.

December 29th, 2012 - Anonymous organizes an #OccupySteubenville protest in Steubenville

January 1st, 2013 - Localleaks, a blog working with Knightsec, collects information from the leak

In their preliminary write-up they name the following people as main conspirators in a plot to cover-up the details of the alleged rape.

•James “Jim” Parks: Webmaster and owner of a private fan site for the team rollredroll.com, who they point to as a close contact of the players. Localleaks also posts photos of seemingly young girls from his email, girls they claim are "conquests" of the team.

•Sheriff Fred Abdalla: The post claims that Sheriff Abdalla and Head Football Coach Reno A. Saccoccia have regular breakfasts together and are conspiring to remove electronic evidence from students at the party.

•Prosecuting Attorney Jane Hanlin: Hanlin is the prosecuting attorney for Jefferson County, but she is also the mother of Charlie Keenan, a suspected member of Steubenville High's "Rape Crew".

•Head Football Coach Reno A. Saccoccia: Localleaks points to Saccoccia as the ringleader of the conspiracy, attempting to "hold off sheriff deputies when they seized the telephones and other electronic items belonging to the perpetrators, meanwhile encouraging his “boys” to delete everything." The post goes further, claiming the coach rewards players by allowing them to view porn on his computer and providing drugs and alcohol to those who are “extra” deserving.

January 3rd, 2012 - Actor/writer Roseanne Barr aligns herself with Knightsec

I first heard about it from people on Twitter. When I read the facts of the case, I got horrified at the usual things that horrify me – rape culture in all its gluttony, complicity of adults to protect athletes, and to help to destroy their victims/prey by painting them as immoral, rather than those who harm them. Victim blaming/woman bashing is America's downfall, in Steubenville and in Washington, D.C.

January 3rd, 2012 They also release a video of former Steubenville High baseball player Michael Colin Nodianos

The 18-year-old jokes about the alleged rape victim and continually refers to her as "the dead girl." He jokes that his friends "raped her more than the Duke Lacrosse Team" and frequently laughs about how unconscious she was during the incident. He goes into details about the victim being urinated on in the street and jokes "she was deader than Obi-Won Kenobi after Darth Vader chopped his head off."

January 5th, 2013 - A second demonstration organized by Knightsec will take place in Steubenville.

February 13th, 2013 - The official trial

March 17th, 2013 - The verdict

Now sure, charges were filed prior to Anon involvement, but evidence was being destroyed. If you believe Anon, the Sherriff seemed to have been 'in' on it, the webmaster for the team was in on it, the coach was in on it, heck even the Prosecutor was in on it. No one wanted the boys to be guilty.

Now when youre talking about a group of teens and adults trying to help them delete evidence of a crime (pictures/videos/tweets) vs Anon hacker group (who has previously taken down the site of the FBI) Its really no contest. They were able to retrieve almost every piece of evidence that was deleted and make it public- ensuring that nothing was lost or swept under the rug as so many there wouldve wished it to be.

(ironically the crime blogger tried to do a similar thing after the charges were filed and was sued)

-----

Anyway-

You seem to move on when one argument no longer suits you to another one. Things dont have to be one extreme or another. There are various shades of grey in between.

If someone believes in rehabilitation or personal growth- theres varying degrees of such.

No ones talking about if a child molester can be successfully rehabilitated to the point where they should be trusted around small children unsupervised.

We were specifically talking about whether or not a boy learns at home to respect women- ie no means no. Do not take advantage of a girl who is passed out. And if he doesnt because his parents feel thats just common sense, or just otherwise never bothered to go over stuff like that- is it too late to educate young men about stuff like that later on in schools.

You stated once a boy doesnt learn it at home- hes a lost cause. And thats ridiculous. Its never too late. In fact its something that should be drilled over and over again into young mens minds, just as safety measures are drilled over and over again into the minds of the young women.

I can only hope if you choose to reply again you stay on topic instead of veering off again about child molesters or pitbulls.

[Penny Lane 8,159]

Your just wrong, it's only is cases like this where people ask questions about her lack of judgement.

This idea that everyone wants to blame the women is not based in any reality I have seen.

There's a reason most rapes go unreported, Danno. Why do you think that is? The attitude towards the victims is ridiculous. People always wonder and ask what the victim was doing to make themselves available to such a situation.

Rapists cause rape. Not skimpy clothing, but alcohol, just rapists.

This girl, who attempted to remain anonymous, is now receiving threats for reporting this because she "ruined" the reputation of these boys. It's a sick world.

Edited March 22, 2013 by Evylin

[Danno 1,228]

There's a reason most rapes go unreported, Danno. Why do you think that is?

Rapists cause rape. Not skimpy clothing, but alcohol, just rapists.

-Forgive me but I am always dubious about the "facts" around things that never got reported, in other words it is speculations based on ....speculation.

-IT sounds like you believe these boys would have raped this girl, even if she were sober and fighting like a cat.... and that the incident happened when she was passed out .... just by coincidence.

really now?

[Penny Lane 8,159]

-Forgive me but I am always dubious about the "facts" around things that never got reported, in other words it is speculations based on ....speculation.

-IT sounds like you believe these boys would have raped this girl, even if she were sober and fighting like a cat.... and that the incident happened when she was passed out .... just by coincidence.

really now?

It has nothing to do with whether or not they would have raped her under different circumstances.

They chose to rape her under these circumstances and apparently, had a great time doing it.

Are we to assume that most men, under these circumstances, would have done the same? And that these boys were just taking advantage of the situation presented to them? Is that what you're attempting to say?

Rapists are rapists. Whether you have sex with your wife when she doesn't want to, whether you convince a girlfriend when she's already said no, whether you jump a girl in an isolated park one night, or whether you take advantage of a girl whose had so much to drink that she doesn't know what's going on. Rape is rape.

[JohnR! 5,495]

Rapists are rapists. Whether you have sex with your wife when she doesn't want to, whether you convince a girlfriend when she's already said no, whether you jump a girl in an isolated park one night, or whether you take advantage of a girl whose had so much to drink that she doesn't know what's going on. Rape is rape.

I find it interesting that people here resort to moral relativity in order to evaluate the different degrees of rape, based on the victim.

I have heard the same non-sense sophistry many times:

- The way she was dressed...

- Her behavior...

- But... she was a prostitute...

- She was drinking alone, in a bar...

- She was asking for it...

- She is a ####### after all..

- She used poor judgment...

Seriously, rape is rape. It has nothing to do with who, where, when or how. It is really a simple concept, you might think it easy enough to understand even to the more unaware...

[Penny Lane 8,159]

A woman is never asking to be raped. If she's walking down the street naked, you are still not invited to assault her. The people who make comments about what the victim did wrong are taking the responsibility off the rapists, whether they want to or not.

That kind of attitude is dangerous towards men AND women. You're implying that any man would have done the same, and implying that men cannot control themselves. I've never known any man who had the urge to rape a woman, no matter how she was dressed and no matter how drunk she was.

Put the blame where it belongs: on the men who see a woman in a vulnerable situation and decide to take advantage of her. Don't blame the woman just for being there, or for what she was wearing.

[Danno 1,228]

It has nothing to do with whether or not they would have raped her under different circumstances.

They chose to rape her under these circumstances and apparently, had a great time doing it.

Are we to assume that most men, under these circumstances, would have done the same? And that these boys were just taking advantage of the situation presented to them? Is that what you're attempting to say?

Rapists are rapists. Whether you have sex with your wife when she doesn't want to, whether you convince a girlfriend when she's already said no, whether you jump a girl in an isolated park one night, or whether you take advantage of a girl whose had so much to drink that she doesn't know what's going on. Rape is rape.

Sometimes you pop off with the best stuff.

If this is the definition of rape..... *coaxing a girlfriend to do something*... I suspect you are right in assuming most men are rapist.

[JensJrny2Ray 367]

Sometimes you pop off with the best stuff.

If this is the definition of rape..... *coaxing a girlfriend to do something*... I suspect you are right in assuming most men are rapist.

I'm guessing you've never known a woman or young girl who was raped.

[JohnR! 5,495]

Sometimes you pop off with the best stuff.

If this is the definition of rape..... *coaxing a girlfriend to do something*... I suspect you are right in assuming most men are rapist.

You coax a friend into buying the red garment instead of the green garment.

You coax a friend into trying a new restaurant.

You coax a friend into going on vacation with you to place A instead of B.

When a woman says no, she really means 'no', otherwise she would not say anything! It is not that complicated, really.

'No' means no. Rape is rape.

[Penny Lane 8,159]

Sometimes you pop off with the best stuff.

If this is the definition of rape..... *coaxing a girlfriend to do something*... I suspect you are right in assuming most men are rapist.

When did I ever say that most men are rapists?! I'm saying the opposite, actually.

It is the definition of rape. If someone says no, that means no. I'm not sure why you're under the impression that rape needs to be violent to be rape.

Edited March 22, 2013 by Evylin

[Danno 1,228]

I'm guessing you've never known a woman or young girl who was raped.

I don't need to know someone who was electrocuted to know what it means.

[Penny Lane 8,159]

I don't need to know someone who was electrocuted to know what it means.

So your definition is the only one that matters, even if it's incorrect?

If you do not take no for an answer, even if it's with a significant other, it is still rape. Do you believe all rape is violent?