Halal meat

[zahrasalem 114]

quote name='sandinista!' timestamp='1363155951' post='6043259']

Some things are definitely "more strict" in Jewish dietary law- in my Muslim household we love shrimp and tenderloin steak and sturgeon and I know plenty of Jewish people who won't touch those things,, but the ritual differences are what prevent us from eating kosher.

I agree....you said it better than I did, thanks! We also eat shellfish (LOVE crab), but I've also heard of some muslims who beleive shellfish are not halal (because shellfish are ocean bottom-feeders) and won't eat it, like Jewish people. I'm not sure where they got that from?

Edited March 13, 2013 by zahrasalem

[sandinista! 1,816]

I know Shia Jafari madhab says shellfish, fish without scales are not allowed. As far as I know all Sunni schools say it's fine, but there might be some outliers.

I know Shia can't eat rabbit either, like in kosher law. I wonder if they can eat camel though? Camel isn't kosher either.

I love crab too! Every January we tag along with my parents to a crab feed in Newport, OR, the Dungeness crab capital of the world

[zahrasalem 114]

I know Shia Jafari madhab says shellfish, fish without scales are not allowed. As far as I know all Sunni schools say it's fine, but there might be some outliers.

I know Shia can't eat rabbit either, like in kosher law. I wonder if they can eat camel though? Camel isn't kosher either.

I love crab too! Every January we tag along with my parents to a crab feed in Newport, OR, the Dungeness crab capital of the world

I think I remember when I lived in Khamis Mushayt, Saudi Arabia that I saw camel heads hanging in the meat souks, along with cow heads.

My husband's family makes rabbit, he's been wanting to find it here, too. I only had it once when i was a kid, but I would like to try it again.

There is a great Asian buffet near our house that has crab after 4pm....sometimes we go there and I ONLY have the crab....I don't care about eating anything else at that time It's worth the $14.95, especially since crab is about $10 lb in the store.

[salim82 8]

Whatever, you have your opinion and we have ours. I think whoever posted this as a link, couldnt have said it better below. But of course, its always going to be debated as anything is anymore.

All that is slaughtered by the people of the Book (Christians and Jews) in their customary way of slaughtering is lawful to us. We can eat it, sell it and buy it. Allaah Says (what means): {Made lawful to you this day are all kinds of lawful foods. The food of the people of the Book is lawful to you and yours is lawful to them.}[Quran 5:5]

This is not my opinion but the words of the Koran and what is commanded by God. The issue of halal meat is a very easy concept and clear to every Muslim. Such topics we are studying at the age of ten, in our schools. Verse "aya"5 relates to the incident day of pilgrimage (haj day), the verse 3 states about halal meat.

You have not understood the meaning of the verse, if you read the sentence in which God says: "Today lawful to you good things" (al tayibat) meant or meaning good things are: slaughter of halal, and the word "today", it means "day of Hajj," The sentence that you think where Muslims, Jews and Christians can eat everything with each other - your understanding is wrong also, in verse God intended the Jews and the Christians can eat from Muslims food/slaughter, meaning "solution for you," ("حِلٌّ لَّكُمْ") here is what was permissible for Muslims is permissible for Jews and Christians.

The word (food people of the Scripture) generally includes all food for them: carcasses, cereals and others, all of that is old to us, unless forbidden like dead carcasses, blood and pork, etc. It is not permissible to eat unanimously between all the Islamic scholars. So we must slaughter as God commanded to his people.

I noticed you are sticking a lot to the 5:5 verse. Remember that the Koran spoke a lot about this in several Sura 16: 112 116. Sura 6: 142 152. Sura 2: 173. Sura 5: 3.

The words of the Koran rather have a deep meaning. Arabic vocabulary has more than one meaning, one letter may change most of the concept of the verse. There are so-called interpretations of the Koran and this will help you to understand the real meaning of the Koran and the cause of the sura. salem

[zaynab 4]

you made me feel hungry ,

[MedRoni 161]

Whatever, you have your opinion and we have ours. I think whoever posted this as a link, couldnt have said it better below. But of course, its always going to be debated as anything is anymore.

All that is slaughtered by the people of the Book (Christians and Jews) in their customary way of slaughtering is lawful to us. We can eat it, sell it and buy it. Allaah Says (what means): {Made lawful to you this day are all kinds of lawful foods. The food of the people of the Book is lawful to you and yours is lawful to them.}[Quran 5:5]

I think we can all agree at this point there are many opinions regarding this, and as you said it will always be debated.

For me, the sentence highlighted above would still need to mean just that... slaughtered by the people of the book in their CUSTOMARY way. When this was written, Christians were still slaughtering as told in the bible. Today, the Jewish still slaughter in their customary way, including draining all the blood from the animal. Muslims are forbidden to eat blood. In the bible it also states Christians are to not eat blood. Yet take a look at the meat found by regular butchers in a grocery store. How do we know they were butchered by Christians or Jewish people? How do we know the butcher wasn't a pagan for example? (not judging pagans by the way)

Also.... I can guarantee you put that aside... the non halal or non koscher meats you find available in the stores and restaurants are not drained of all their blood. Put a piece of beef on the cutting board for 5 minutes and pick it up. Check out the pool of blood. I have yet to see that with halal meat. Same thing with a good steak house. Have your steak cooked anyway you want, as well done as you can get and there will still be juice on the plate when you cut it. Yep... that's blood. Saying Bismallah over this type of meat still does not remove the blood factor. No thanks.

Edited March 14, 2013 by MedRoni

[sarsorti 36]

just my two cents but anyone truly educated in Islam knows Kosher and Halal are two entirely different things. Eat whatever you want people and live with your own convictions or not, but the truth is these two cultural traditional and religious practices of eating are NOT the same. Starvation will not consume one if Halal cannot be readily available as there are many fruits , veggies and fish in the sea. Happy eating to all, bismillah.

Edited March 14, 2013 by sarsorti

[sandinista! 1,816]

A few quibbles. Please detail exactly what the Christian manner of slaughter is, as detailed in the bible. The majority of Christians do not follow Jewish kosher dietary laws and methods, as a matter of belief. It is their belief, and upheld by a majority of catholic and Protestant leaders over the ages that this is simply not a requirement of the faith. So what is the exact ritual followed for slaughtering an animal for food then that "Christians" were doing? Did it differ between Rome and Constantinople and Damascus? 

Some science stuff-the utter majority of animals like cows and lamb in the United States in mass production slaughterhouses are killed by exsanguination, just like halal zabihah and kosher shechita method. They're killed by severing the great blood vessels of the neck along with the trachea,esophagus and vagus nerve. They're drained of all their blood too. 

It's a quality control/taste issue. It increases the shelf life of meat and most consumers prefer its taste when the blood has been fully drained. Red liquid in most meat is not blood. It's myoglobin. It's chemically different from blood-borne hemoglobin. Myoglobin is what makes meat red. It's  present in meat regardless of how long it's cooked, but it just changes color based on the number of electrons it has, which is affected by cooking. Freshness is also a factor, along with bacterial action. 

Under various conditions, halal, zabihah slaughtered steak will release water from its cells that are tinted red from the myoglobin present just like a regular grocery store steak will. I see it in my kitchen all the time. 

[sandinista! 1,816]

Very true. If my vegan sister can find things to eat when we go out, so can my family, even with our restrictions. It's not rocket science. It's certainly not a bad thing to have meatless days throughout the week either. It's not as easily accessible for us to have meat all the time, so we eat less of it. Win/win.

just my two cents but anyone truly educated in Islam knows Kosher and Halal are two entirely different things. Eat whatever you want people and live with your own convictions or not, but the truth is these two cultural traditional and religious practices of eating are NOT the same. Starvation will not consume one if Halal cannot be readily available as there are many fruits , veggies and fish in the sea. Happy eating to all, bismillah.

[MedRoni 161]

A few quibbles. Please detail exactly what the Christian manner of slaughter is, as detailed in the bible. The majority of Christians do not follow Jewish kosher dietary laws and methods, as a matter of belief. It is their belief, and upheld by a majority of catholic and Protestant leaders over the ages that this is simply not a requirement of the faith. So what is the exact ritual followed for slaughtering an animal for food then that "Christians" were doing? Did it differ between Rome and Constantinople and Damascus? 

I agree maybe I did not word this well. I was referring to the act of draining blood from the animal as the bible states should be done - Leviticus 17:13, not that there is some actual manner of slaughter as far as a ritual, etc. goes. I also did not say Christians ever followed Jewish Koscher laws.

Some science stuff-the utter majority of animals like cows and lamb in the United States in mass production slaughterhouses are killed by exsanguination, just like halal zabihah and kosher shechita method. They're killed by severing the great blood vessels of the neck along with the trachea,esophagus and vagus nerve. They're drained of all their blood too. 

It's a quality control/taste issue. It increases the shelf life of meat and most consumers prefer its taste when the blood has been fully drained. Red liquid in most meat is not blood. It's myoglobin. It's chemically different from blood-borne hemoglobin. Myoglobin is what makes meat red. It's  present in meat regardless of how long it's cooked, but it just changes color based on the number of electrons it has, which is affected by cooking. Freshness is also a factor, along with bacterial action. 

Under various conditions, halal, zabihah slaughtered steak will release water from its cells that are tinted red from the myoglobin present just like a regular grocery store steak will. I see it in my kitchen all the time. 

I also agree with you here about the additives in the meat and the freshness, but I grew up on a farm myself watching how the animals were butchered and I can tell you not all the blood is drained out as well as it could be, or shall I say should be when they are killed in some slaughter house type scenarios. I personally don't agree the majority kill in the same halal, zabihah and koscher shechita method. There are far too many horror stories out there for me to believe that all US slaughterhouses follow this. Some of what I see in the meat in the stores is additives and coloring to make it look pretty, sure - but I am also thoroughly convinced some of it is in fact blood. I wouldn't personally eat it, but then again we all have our choices to make! Thank you for some of the insight!

[Peace.... 281]

1363227524[/url]' post='6045204']

This is not my opinion but the words of the Koran and what is commanded by God. The issue of halal meat is a very easy concept and clear to every Muslim. Such topics we are studying at the age of ten, in our schools. Verse "aya"5 relates to the incident day of pilgrimage (haj day), the verse 3 states about halal meat.

You have not understood the meaning of the verse, if you read the sentence in which God says: "Today lawful to you good things" (al tayibat) meant or meaning good things are: slaughter of halal, and the word "today", it means "day of Hajj," The sentence that you think where Muslims, Jews and Christians can eat everything with each other - your understanding is wrong also, in verse God intended the Jews and the Christians can eat from Muslims food/slaughter, meaning "solution for you," ("حِلٌّ لَّكُمْ") here is what was permissible for Muslims is permissible for Jews and Christians.

The word (food people of the Scripture) generally includes all food for them: carcasses, cereals and others, all of that is old to us, unless forbidden like dead carcasses, blood and pork, etc. It is not permissible to eat unanimously between all the Islamic scholars. So we must slaughter as God commanded to his people.

I noticed you are sticking a lot to the 5:5 verse. Remember that the Koran spoke a lot about this in several Sura 16: 112 116. Sura 6: 142 152. Sura 2: 173. Sura 5: 3.

The words of the Koran rather have a deep meaning. Arabic vocabulary has more than one meaning, one letter may change most of the concept of the verse. There are so-called interpretations of the Koran and this will help you to understand the real meaning of the Koran and the cause of the sura. salem

You made your case, but unfortunately I will still have to disagree with your interpretation and dreams of lawful foods. thanks anyway

[Peace.... 281]

1363227524[/url]' post='6045204']

This is not my opinion but the words of the Koran and what is commanded by God. The issue of halal meat is a very easy concept and clear to every Muslim. Such topics we are studying at the age of ten, in our schools. Verse "aya"5 relates to the incident day of pilgrimage (haj day), the verse 3 states about halal meat.

You have not understood the meaning of the verse, if you read the sentence in which God says: "Today lawful to you good things" (al tayibat) meant or meaning good things are: slaughter of halal, and the word "today", it means "day of Hajj," The sentence that you think where Muslims, Jews and Christians can eat everything with each other - your understanding is wrong also, in verse God intended the Jews and the Christians can eat from Muslims food/slaughter, meaning "solution for you," ("حِلٌّ لَّكُمْ") here is what was permissible for Muslims is permissible for Jews and Christians.

The word (food people of the Scripture) generally includes all food for them: carcasses, cereals and others, all of that is old to us, unless forbidden like dead carcasses, blood and pork, etc. It is not permissible to eat unanimously between all the Islamic scholars. So we must slaughter as God commanded to his people.

I noticed you are sticking a lot to the 5:5 verse. Remember that the Koran spoke a lot about this in several Sura 16: 112 116. Sura 6: 142 152. Sura 2: 173. Sura 5: 3.

The words of the Koran rather have a deep meaning. Arabic vocabulary has more than one meaning, one letter may change most of the concept of the verse. There are so-called interpretations of the Koran and this will help you to understand the real meaning of the Koran and the cause of the sura. salem

My husband read this to me as its in arabic. Im amazed there are so many different opinions about this particular verse of lawful foods. Im not here to battle what the Quran says but to understand what others opinion are as this verse seems very debatable.

http://www.ibnothaimeen.com/all/noor/article_1689.shtml

[salim82 8]

You made your case, but unfortunately I will still have to disagree with your interpretation and dreams of lawful foods. thanks anyway

When I spoke on the subject of hallal meat it was just a discussion about what every muslim is taught and to illustrate the idea of hallal meat. About you changing your mind or not, this is not my subject at all. For me, what you consider my dream is my reality. As a muslim I respect everybody, without being judgmental. You're welcome.

[Peace.... 281]

1363242347[/url]' post='6046078']

A few quibbles. Please detail exactly what the Christian manner of slaughter is, as detailed in the bible. The majority of Christians do not follow Jewish kosher dietary laws and methods, as a matter of belief. It is their belief, and upheld by a majority of catholic and Protestant leaders over the ages that this is simply not a requirement of the faith. So what is the exact ritual followed for slaughtering an animal for food then that "Christians" were doing? Did it differ between Rome and Constantinople and Damascus?

Some science stuff-the utter majority of animals like cows and lamb in the United States in mass production slaughterhouses are killed by exsanguination, just like halal zabihah and kosher shechita method. They're killed by severing the great blood vessels of the neck along with the trachea,esophagus and vagus nerve. They're drained of all their blood too.

It's a quality control/taste issue. It increases the shelf life of meat and most consumers prefer its taste when the blood has been fully drained. Red liquid in most meat is not blood. It's myoglobin. It's chemically different from blood-borne hemoglobin. Myoglobin is what makes meat red. It's present in meat regardless of how long it's cooked, but it just changes color based on the number of electrons it has, which is affected by cooking. Freshness is also a factor, along with bacterial action.

Under various conditions, halal, zabihah slaughtered steak will release water from its cells that are tinted red from the myoglobin present just like a regular grocery store steak will. I see it in my kitchen all the time.

Exactly glad you posted this, gonna show it to my husband, as he grills his steak and food so well done, I cant even chew it, much less try to swallow it.

[salim82 8]

My husband read this to me as its in arabic. Im amazed there are so many different opinions about this particular verse of lawful foods. Im not here to battle what the Quran says but to understand what others opinion are as this verse seems very debatable.

http://www.ibnothaimeen.com/all/noor/article_1689.shtml

What!! I think your husband is muslim? Ok I know about the link you sent, but do you know it talks about slaughtered meat. We can eat if its slaughtered meat like the God said. In the link you provided, to say bismillah then you can eat, this was for people that didn't know where this meat came from and (this happened in time of war). Non muslim countries don't always slaughter the animal they kill the animal with beating or shooting or electrifying, etc. Then you go to the butcher and you know its not halal meat and you say oh its ok, just bismilah its enough - then no and no. If you know the word "tayibat" and what it means in this verse you would see this verse is not very debatable at all.