Accidental Claim to US Citizenship back in 1988

[NickD 203]

PA does issue carry permits to legal residents which she has been since she was nine.

Wisconsin recently passed a concealed weapons law, but need proof of US citizenship, like a birth certificate before you can apply for it. 50 different states, 50 different laws. Some came here that accidentally became registered voters at their DMV. Would never happen in Wisconsin, first off, our DMV does not handle voters registration, second, you need proof to get that first time license. Like a born in the USA birth certificate or your green card. Wife and stepdaughter had to show their green cards even before they could take the test.

But you still don't walk in, show a proper ID and get a permit, have to show that you had a certificate that you passed a safety test. I didn't have to do that, could show my military records that I had all that training. So she just walked in, filled out the form, no ID, so proof of training, and Pennsylvania gave her a permit to carry a deadly weapon? Just find this difficult to believe that any state would be that careless.

But this is only the beginning, still have to purchase a weapon that can be concealed, FBI checks for that, and a cool down waiting period.

If Pennsylvania is that sloppy, can't be totally this girl's fault. And did she actually purchase a concealable weapon? No ID, no training? Sounds crazy.

[jkelly07 120]

it's a roll of the dice,i would go with stay a LPR resident, why chance it,talk to a good lawyer.

[aws&ndd 103]

The issue at hand isn't that she had a gun permit...it's that she made a false claim to citizenship which is very bad, and something you can't take back. I would suggest seeking advice from a good immigration attorney.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

The issue at hand isn't that she had a gun permit...it's that she made a false claim to citizenship which is very bad, and something you can't take back. I would suggest seeking advice from a good immigration attorney.

Exactly.

False claims of citizenship for any reason disqualify her for citizenship. It is a deport-able offense. Done deal.

Make SURE you never to claim to be a citizen if you are not. You are not a citizen until you take the oath and are handed the certificate.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Off Topic: Makes you wonder how a responsible government could allow stupid people to have guns, let alone a concealed carry permit.

Exactly. This is why the government should not be trusted to distribute our RIGHTS on a permit basis. All states should be like Vermont and allow ANYone to carry concealed weapons without begging permission from the Great White Father.

Our crime rate here is far lower than PA and anyone, including visitors from other countries, can carry concealed handguns.

It is shame this woman has disqualified herself for something that made no difference and should not even be required in a FREE country.

[Lex Specialis 38]

This individual needs to contact counsel at once. Under certain circumstances, you can get a waiver for US citizenship if you have been convicted of fraud, sexual assault or other crimes. If you are found to have under penalty of perjury claimed US citizenship without actually having it, there is no waiver. Hopefully that gives you an idea of how serious this is and why a lawyer is needed. There are defenses (lack of intent for instance), but a pro needs to do the app and accompanying cover letter.

this issue can result not only in the denial of the N-400, but most likely an issuance of the Notice to Appear in Immigration Court at the natz interview and the start of removal proceedings. Then it gets more complicated and more expensive.

Edited March 12, 2013 by Lex Specialis

[Cathi 5,775]

She must have renewed it 4 times if it was issued back in 1988. I can understand perhaps making the mistake once, but to continue to check that box 4 more times? She is applying for naturalization, so I am assuming she didn't just figure out she isn't a citizen or she wouldn't have applied in the first place. I warn my husband all the times to make sure he reads and rereads every single form he fills out in this country. I agree with a previous poster who said that there are even US citizens that don't realize their alien spouses are not citizens, they just assume marriage makes it automatic. It needs to be more clear to people before they arrive to never, under any circumstances claim proof to citizenship, before you actually are. And like Gary said, it's a shame she will be disqualified for something that wouldn't have made a difference whether she was a LPR or citizen.

Edited March 12, 2013 by mimolicious

[Donna & Paul 4]

Wisconsin recently passed a concealed weapons law, but need proof of US citizenship, like a birth certificate before you can apply for it. 50 different states, 50 different laws. Some came here that accidentally became registered voters at their DMV. Would never happen in Wisconsin, first off, our DMV does not handle voters registration, second, you need proof to get that first time license. Like a born in the USA birth certificate or your green card. Wife and stepdaughter had to show their green cards even before they could take the test.

But you still don't walk in, show a proper ID and get a permit, have to show that you had a certificate that you passed a safety test. I didn't have to do that, could show my military records that I had all that training. So she just walked in, filled out the form, no ID, so proof of training, and Pennsylvania gave her a permit to carry a deadly weapon? Just find this difficult to believe that any state would be that careless.

But this is only the beginning, still have to purchase a weapon that can be concealed, FBI checks for that, and a cool down waiting period.

If Pennsylvania is that sloppy, can't be totally this girl's fault. And did she actually purchase a concealable weapon? No ID, no training? Sounds crazy.

I live in Georgia. I don't know PA's concealed carry laws, but in my state all you have to have is a photo ID, proof of residency/proof of legal presence, be 21 years old, and have whatever cash the county you are applying in requires for application. Beyond that there's a background check to see if you have any criminal or mental health issues. There are no state laws concerning training, whether or not you own a gun, no test to pass.

Crazy? Yes. Ask me how I know this? I have a concealed carry permit the government has no idea if I own a gun or not. In my state it's legal to buy a gun from an individual and not register the thing.

Now as for this person's problem, I would most assuredly follow Darnell's advice. If there is no way to straighten it out with the State of PA then I would contact a good immigration attorney. I know everybody here is well aware of the damage claiming to be a US Citizen can cause, but there are nuances to immigration law that an experienced attorney worth their salt would know. They may say stay with the LPR and withdraw the application, but it can't hurt to ask.

Edited March 12, 2013 by Donna & Paul

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

She must have renewed it 4 times if it was issued back in 1988. I can understand perhaps making the mistake once, but to continue to check that box 4 more times? She is applying for naturalization, so I am assuming she didn't just figure out she isn't a citizen or she wouldn't have applied in the first place. I warn my husband all the times to make sure he reads and rereads every single form he fills out in this country. I agree with a previous poster who said that there are even US citizens that don't realize their alien spouses are not citizens, they just assume marriage makes it automatic. It needs to be more clear to people before they arrive to never, under any circumstances claim proof to citizenship, before you actually are. And like Gary said, it's a shame she will be disqualified for something that wouldn't have made a difference whether she was a LPR or citizen.

US citizen spouses need to help their LPR families with this. This can be so tricky. Alla decided to renew her drivers license online because it is "easy and fast" The problem is that the form "default checks" the YES box to the question as to whether you are a US citizen or not and you have to read that an "UN-check" the box. It also asks if you want to register to vote and again the "yes" box is checked and you have to "UN-check" it.

These kinds of things can cause lots of problems and we simply closed the online renewal and went to the local office, dealt with a human being and made sure to say she was an LPR and handed over green card as ID. Sergey is doing the same. LPRs can have drivers licenses, I do not want to come anywhere NEAR a system than could mess up her and the children's benefits for NO REASON!

LPRs ARE allowed to vote in LOCAL and STATE elections for which no registration is necessary, for example in our school elections you need only show some form of evidence you live in the school district to vote...a utility bill for example. THIS is OK. IF your state or local elections require you to be registered for FEDERAL elections in order to vote, then STAY AWAY

Incidentally, Alla enjoys shooting both rifles and handguns and purchased 3 firearms as an LPR, which is perfectly legal, and went through the background checks. She had no need to claim citizenship as LPRs are allowed to purchase firearms.

Vermont is a FREE STATE and allows any person here to carry concealed weapons so that is not an issue for FREE people anyway.

If you or your family member are an LPR be VERY careful about this and perhaps establish some procedure to have more than one person review any such documents to make sure no one actually claims citizenship by mistake.

BTW this woman in NO WAY "made a mistake" she claimed citizenship multiple times to renew her concealed permit. Not that I care, I don't think she should even have to have a permit, but no one is buying the "Oops, I made a mistake ...5 times" story. USCIS certainly will not

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I live in Georgia. I don't know PA's concealed carry laws, but in my state all you have to have is a photo ID, proof of residency/proof of legal presence, be 21 years old, and have whatever cash the county you are applying in requires for application. Beyond that there's a background check to see if you have any criminal or mental health issues. There are no state laws concerning training, whether or not you own a gun, no test to pass.

Crazy? Yes. Ask me how I know this? I have a concealed carry permit the government has no idea if I own a gun or not. In my state it's legal to buy a gun from an individual and not register the thing.

Now as for this person's problem, I would most assuredly follow Darnell's advice. If there is no way to straighten it out with the State of PA then I would contact a good immigration attorney. I know everybody here is well aware of the damage claiming to be a US Citizen can cause, but there are nuances to immigration law that an experienced attorney worth their salt would know. They may say stay with the LPR and withdraw the application, but it can't hurt to ask.

Georgia is almost a FREE state. Their crime rate would go down if they allowed anyone to carry concealed without the silly permit.

Does anyone think criminals do not carry guns because they don't have a permit?

firearm registration cannot prevent crime any more than car registration can prevent drunk driving. Very few states have firearm registration ...because it is stupid and there are only a few states controlled by enough stupid people to actually pass such a law.

I doubt an attorney can help, the law is abundantly clear, but there are plenty that will take her money and say they can.

[Donna & Paul 4]

Georgia is almost a FREE state. Their crime rate would go down if they allowed anyone to carry concealed without the silly permit.

Does anyone think criminals do not carry guns because they don't have a permit?

firearm registration cannot prevent crime any more than car registration can prevent drunk driving. Very few states have firearm registration ...because it is stupid and there are only a few states controlled by enough stupid people to actually pass such a law.

I doubt an attorney can help, the law is abundantly clear, but there are plenty that will take her money and say they can.

While I do see your point about the concealed carry permit and the not registering thing (criminals most assuredly will do neither), it is also not a crime to be a complete moron and "accidentally" do all sorts of things with a gun that one ought not just being stupid. I do believe a responsible gun owner should be educated in gun handling. And I think someone, somewhere along the way should have some guidelines as to what makes one a responsible gun owner. Will that stop crime? Nah, but it might save some injuries and some lives from those not mature enough to handle the responsibility.

Now, as for the attorney: they may not be able to help. I mentioned an experienced attorney. I had in mind someone like Laurel Scott or Steven Heller, someone who would tell them up front and honestly in an unpaid consultation whether they have a chance or not. Those attorneys wouldn't want to waste their time if they didn't have a snowball's chance. Couldn't hurt to ask. Laurel Scott has an online q&a where you can ask the very question and she'll tell you her honest opinion - unpaid.

The thing is this probably isn't very accidental. It's probably that the lady didn't think it was all that important. Until it was.

[Donna & Paul 4]

US citizen spouses need to help their LPR families with this. This can be so tricky.

I went with Paul to the DMV to get his driver's license. Even though he already knew to check the "alien" box I kept reminding him while he was filling out the application. And anytime he has gone to fill out a job application or credit application or ANY paperwork at all I remind him that if it asks a question about citizenship the answer is NO. He is and will be a alien until he is granted citizenship and that won't be for some time now.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I went with Paul to the DMV to get his driver's license. Even though he already knew to check the "alien" box I kept reminding him while he was filling out the application. And anytime he has gone to fill out a job application or credit application or ANY paperwork at all I remind him that if it asks a question about citizenship the answer is NO. He is and will be a alien until he is granted citizenship and that won't be for some time now.

The thing we found is that when you went somewhere that the question came up they would ask Alla if she were a US citizen and she would say "no" the response...

Yeah, you know the look. "Boiled fish" they say in Russian "Eyes open but nothing there". "Deer in the headlights" in English. Then you have to go through the lineup of untrained clerks and several layers of supervision that have no clue what to do next because you are the FIRST one that ever said "no" to that question in all 7 weeks of their employment and they were never trained WHAT to do for THAT! Read the forum threads on people getting their SSNs or drivers licenses. The untrained idiots have no trouble making up an answer from thin air!

It is easy to see where someone might just say "To heck with this, YES I am a citizen"

DON'T DO IT!

[Donna & Paul 4]

The thing we found is that when you went somewhere that the question came up they would ask Alla if she were a US citizen and she would say "no" the response...

Yeah, you know the look. "Boiled fish" they say in Russian "Eyes open but nothing there". "Deer in the headlights" in English. Then you have to go through the lineup of untrained clerks and several layers of supervision that have no clue what to do next because you are the FIRST one that ever said "no" to that question in all 7 weeks of their employment and they were never trained WHAT to do for THAT! Read the forum threads on people getting their SSNs or drivers licenses. The untrained idiots have no trouble making up an answer from thin air!

It is easy to see where someone might just say "To heck with this, YES I am a citizen"

DON'T DO IT!

Yes, we had quite a time getting Paul situated with a driver's license. And pretty much everywhere we've been when he answers the question saying he's an alien, filling in his A# all we hear are crickets chirping. I definitely see where a person would do just what you said. But, you know, didn't the receiver of the application ever wonder why that question is even on the application if there weren't something they were supposed to do with that particular information? I mean, if it's just to be assumed that you'll only be getting applications from citizens, why even have the question?

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Yes, we had quite a time getting Paul situated with a driver's license. And pretty much everywhere we've been when he answers the question saying he's an alien, filling in his A# all we hear are crickets chirping. I definitely see where a person would do just what you said. But, you know, didn't the receiver of the application ever wonder why that question is even on the application if there weren't something they were supposed to do with that particular information? I mean, if it's just to be assumed that you'll only be getting applications from citizens, why even have the question?

Some privileges require additional checks for non-citizens. For example, when Alla purchased firearms she had to show she had been a resident of Vermont for at least three months prior to the purchase. We did that with bank statements with our address. That WAS a federal law for LPRs to buy firearms. It was just recently changed (after Alla became a citizen)so they do not have to show any more proof of residency than a citizen now...drivers license for example.

Vermont DMV requires a waiting period to check the validity of an LPRs documents, but they give you a temporary "paper" license while they do that and the official license comes in a week or so.

What it means is there ARE reasons that it makes a difference in processing, though not in final result, but ANY claim to citizenship disqualifies a person if they are not a citizen. The OP in question would have been issued a concealed carry license anyway but maybe it would have been delayed a few weeks or something and they did not want to wait.