And the Religious SHALL INHERIT THE EARTH.

[Danno 1,228]

It's an interesting topic for me, I would like to hear others opinions on WHY the secular don't reproduce in numbers enough to even sustain the population?

Anyone have theories?

I think due to our cultural context, we associate The religious with Right-wing politics and while that certainly is true in this time and place, the two are not shackled to each other by any means.

Even in the Christian faith there is no connection between the faith and capitalism..... or Gun rights, property right and low taxes etc.

So as Europe evolves into Eurabia, will the Muslin folks want to give up their healthcare and monthly check, I rather doubt it.

The more important question might be will a Eurabia be able to bank-roll the socialism they now enjoy?

[Caryh 5,206]

Not sure why all the talk about education levels when his premise is-

Secular people have far fewer kids than those with a strong religious faith.

For instance if secular folks had 1.5 kids on av. and Orthodox Christians were having three kids on average, you can see in one generation what that would mean.

He ever relays that in the UK (or was it London) Orthodox Jews are 17% of the population of Jews yet now have 74% of Jewish births.

Couple that with Mass immigration from areas which are hot beds of religion it brings in more religious peeps to the climate.

He also deals with the contention that education/success causes fewer babies and how it really just effects those who are secular and successful, meanwhile the more fundamentalist peeps (wealthy or not) keep having more kids over all.

IN Europe I don't see how that is not true.

The problem with that has been pointed out, there is no gene for religion. If it was just a matter of breeding more, then the USA would not be seeing a drop in people with religious affiliation.

[Teddy B 17,252]

It's an interesting topic for me, I would like to hear others opinions on WHY the secular don't reproduce in numbers enough to even sustain the population?

Anyone have theories?

Because religions are no different from a cult, they preach reproduction to keep their membership numbers growing. What's more easier to brainwash than the mind of a child?

Edited March 5, 2013 by Teddy B

[Karee 4,191]

Because religions are no different from a cult, they preach reproduction to keep their membership numbers growing. What's more easier to brainwash than the mind of a child?

Bingo!

[Danno 1,228]

I guess since one of the tenets of alot of religions is no birth control. Look at places like the Philippines that is just now getting around to allowing birth control. Go ahead and kick out as many kids a possible because we want to guarantee future church membership. Who gives a #### if they live on less than a $1 a day.

What I want you to do is think a little more open mindedly and a bit more long term.

Birth control is a fairly new practice in the world, starting in the West.

And how has that worked out? Prosperity yes but how many counties in Europe are now in a population free-fall?

If you only consider the here and now only, things are great but think of the burden the few children being born will have supporting all these aging parents and grand parents.

And when you are paying for their care.... how many resources are left to motivate you to have kids of your own? It's for this reason once a birthrate falls to a certain level, there is no way back. There are a number countries which cannot recover.

I have only heard of one case where it turned around, I think it was Chechnya. And guess what made the difference?

1. They are very religious.

2. The head of the Orthodox Church promised to personally baptize the second or third child.

Edited March 5, 2013 by Danno

[Danno 1,228]

Because religions are no different from a cult, they preach reproduction to keep their membership numbers growing. What's more easier to brainwash than the mind of a child?

Really what you are saying is: HUmans have evolved so much that they don't feel the need to continue the species anymore.

What a fatalistic mindset. Every creature on earth, goes to great lengths and often bodily harm to reproduce and care for their young..... we found something better.... X-Box.

[Karee 4,191]

What I want you to do is think a little more open mindedly and a bit more long term.

Birth control is a fairly new practice in the world, starting in the West.

And how has that worked out? Prosperity yes but how many counties in Europe are now in a population free-fall?

If you only consider the here and now only, things are great but think of the burden the few children being born will have supporting all these aging parents and grand parents.

And when you are paying for their care.... how many resources are left to motivate you to have kids of your own? It's for this reason once a birthrate falls to a certain level, there is no way back. There are a number countries which cannot recover.

I have only heard of one case where it turned around, I think it was Chechnya. And guess what made the difference?

1. They are very religious.

2. The head of the Orthodox Church promised to personally baptize the second or third child.

So people should have children whether they want them or not? People should have children whether they can support them or not?

Here's a list of the countries with top 10 birth rates in 2010:

1 Niger 46.0 2 Mali 45.4 3 Afghanistan 45.1 4 Burkina Faso 45.0 5 Malawi 44.6 6 Uganda 44.1 7 Zambia 43.6 8 Chad 43.2 9 DR Congo 42.5 10 Somalia 42.3

I think that list speaks for itself.

ETA:

Hell, look at the top 50 for that matter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependent_territories_by_birth_rate

Edited March 5, 2013 by Karee

[Danno 1,228]

So people should have children whether they want them or not? People should have children whether they can support them or not?

Here's a list of the countries with top 10 birth rates in 2010:

1 Niger 46.0 2 Mali 45.4 3 Afghanistan 45.1 4 Burkina Faso 45.0 5 Malawi 44.6 6 Uganda 44.1 7 Zambia 43.6 8 Chad 43.2 9 DR Congo 42.5 10 Somalia 42.3

I think that list speaks for itself.

Your comment resembles the anorexic person pointing to the dramatically obese person as a reason she should not eat. Are those two extremes the only choices?

Edited March 5, 2013 by Danno

[N-o-l-a 7,168]

Because religions are no different from a cult, they preach reproduction to keep their membership numbers growing. What's more easier to brainwash than the mind of a child?

Our religion teaches nothing about reproduction and in fact, historically speaking those who practiced it left weak or unwanted infants out on a road or a forest to die or be found by a passerby. For us, our feelings about reproduction come from a deep examination of our own convictions, morals, wants, and needs and not from supposedly celibate man who could not even begin to understand child rearing. We've chosen to have around 5 kids if nature plays along, but our hearts will be open to more despite attempting to prevent pregnancy at that point. *shrugs*

To paint all religions with the same brush stroke is rather silly and uneducated.

[Karee 4,191]

Your comment resembles the anorexic person pointing to the dramatically obese person as a reason she should not eat. Are those two extremes the only choices?

I edited my last post to include the top 50. Take a look at that. I would say the top 50 is hardly an extreme sample. Would you rather have 1 or 2 kids living a good life or have 10 kids where they have a 75% shot at living past 5?

I know the religious folk would shoot for the 10 kids merely to grow their membership. It's a kind of religious Ponzi scheme.

Edited March 5, 2013 by Karee

[Danno 1,228]

I edited my last post to include the top 50. Take a look at that. I would say the top 50 is hardly an extreme sample. Would you rather have 1 or 2 kids living a good life or have 10 kids where they have a 75% shot at living past 5?

I know the religious folk would shoot for the 10 kids merely to grow their membership. It's a kind of religious Ponzi scheme.

So in your example it has to be 1 kid or 10.

Couldn't just be 3?

By the way, it was not unheard of for folks in this country to have 8-12 kids not that long ago..... I don't recall any waves of famine here.... certainly not caused by kids.

Their hunger over there is not due to kids, they have huge problems that remain no matter how much rice or how many condoms you send.

[Karee 4,191]

So in your example it has to be 1 kid or 10.

Couldn't just be 3?

By the way, it was not unheard of for folks in this country to have 8-12 kids not that long ago..... I don't recall any waves of famine here.... certainly not caused by kids.

Their hunger over there is not due to kids, they have huge problems that remain no matter how much rice or how many condoms you send.

Sure it could be 3.

No matter what they tell you, I bet it was a major pain in the a$$ to have 8-12 kids in this country, or any other country for that matter.

And what do you mean their hunger is not due to kids? If you have 10 mouths to feed, and you can't even feed yourself, I'd say that's a problem. It damn sure aint a coincidence.

[JensJrny2Ray 367]

So in your example it has to be 1 kid or 10.

Couldn't just be 3?

By the way, it was not unheard of for folks in this country to have 8-12 kids not that long ago..... I don't recall any waves of famine here.... certainly not caused by kids.

Their hunger over there is not due to kids, they have huge problems that remain no matter how much rice or how many condoms you send.

When this country was first being settled by white folk, and a woman's role was limited, having children was the thing to do. Heck you needed kids to help work the land.

[Karee 4,191]

When this country was first being settled by white folk, and a woman's role was limited, having children was the thing to do. Heck you needed kids to help work the land.

Ahh the good ol days.

[decocker 7,198]

Couldn't just be 3?

what point are you even trying to argue?

if you can afford three kids, have three. if you can afford ten, have ten.

if you can afford ten but only want one, only have one.

if you can afford one, but have ten - sunday service potluck attendance is mandatory.