Need help urgently, problem with parents

[Sam and Fen 41]

alas, the hukuo book is a must, for birth certificate and police clearance certificate and certificate of single status.

I suggest you show up and plead your case with the parents, come with cash . Seriously, come with cash.

Specially if your fiancée was never married before. In China dowry is paid for a bride.

[Darnell 8,478]

ya, cash in hand fixes a lot of face (yours) and allows the parents to fix their face also.

You must undertand - you are taking away their retirement program and their grandchild.

Cash fixes most.

[Boggy1974 124]

I'm sorry and don't know your fiancee...But are you sure she is telling you the whole truth? About her parents withholding these documents??

It beats my imagination how her parents will do that to a grown adult who is their own daughter. Maybe its a different culture I don't understand.

Besides the family friend who introduced you two, have you solicited the help of other Chinese people the parents know and respect? Be careful when you go there. Because they are not onboard with your marriage plans, and fearful of you taking their daughter away, they can hire a hit on you! Good luck!

[OJSub 0]

Have you ever met the parents?

Something else to consider, they might be worried about who will take care of them as they age. Also, are you planning on petitioning for them?

How is your knowledge of Chinese culture? Maybe its worth looking through the China forum subsection?

It is reasonable for them to worry about her quality of life, is there a Chinatown near you? (Does anyone in it publish a newspaper you could take?) Perhaps you could take information about Chinese events in your area, and that would make them feel better? Give them a picture of what her new life would look like in terms of activities/etc. Meanwhile, you can work on getting the paperwork.

Thanks for the reply. I have not met her parents, but I am considering making an emergency trip to do so. Unfortunately there is no Chinatown anywhere in North Carolina that I have ever heard of. There is a small Chinese population in my area, but not big enough to organize any real cultural events. I can really only assure them that I love her and will make sure that she is safe and comfortable in her life here.

[Maleman 5]

Thanks for the reply. From what I have gathered her parents are worried about her job prospects and her language skill here. Her family is not very religious, so I think that wouldn't be the problem. As far as me being American, it was her mother's idea to have her friend here in the US introduce her to an American. I am doing my best to address any concerns they have, but I can't speak with them directly because of the language barrier. I am having to convey everything through my fiancee and the family friend that introduced us to each other. They seem to be plugging their ears though. But the problem is not that my fiancee is bowing to their will, it is that they have her residency record, or "hukuo book," and are basically holding it hostage. From what little I know about it, that document can nearly impossible to obtain except through a parent, even as an adult. I will take your advice into consideration when dealing with them. I may make an emergency trip to China to meet with them in person. We are just running out of time as far as paperwork deadlines go though.

I have the utmost confidence that you will succeed in this endeavor just based upon your sincerity when writing. As you have suggested, I believe your best bet is to travel over there and meet her parents. From the fact you will meet them face-to-face, and for your future USCIS perspectives, it’s a win, win, situation. Who knows what their mind set will be or how savvy and informed they are regarding the situation of the US versus China. However, giving you food for thought, they might be addressing the long term stability between the two countries. For example, possibility, they are debating the strong viable economy growth potential for China. Yes, less freedom, but let’s view the US’s future with 17 Trillion dollars in debt, and still growing. Again, who knows how knowledgeable they are or what they are actually considering overall. Needless to say, be prepared to discuss any level of advantages as far as her future is concerned in the US. Additionally, read the WEB and any other resources to discover details about their culture. Even with all of our problems in the US, I still would take our country over any other today. I’m a strong patriot! (Smile) May God’s speed be with you and keep us informed of your progress when you have the time.

[Operator 1,927]

Thanks for the reply. I have not met her parents, but I am considering making an emergency trip to do so. Unfortunately there is no Chinatown anywhere in North Carolina that I have ever heard of. There is a small Chinese population in my area, but not big enough to organize any real cultural events. I can really only assure them that I love her and will make sure that she is safe and comfortable in her life here.

April 4th is the Qingming holiday and maybe not a bad time to shoot for to go and meet the parents. As Darnell says showing up with a hongbao is a must. Check with our your fiancée as to how much. Assure them that you are very capable (and willing) to take care of their daughter and also that you know how important she is to her family. Expect tears and be respectful.

Raleigh/Durham has over 20,000 Chinese residents and isn't that far from Wilmington. My wife writes for China Star which is one of the largest Chinese language newspapers in the southeast and it's located in Cary. Cary also has a Buddhist temple and there are several great Chinese markets. There were several large CNY events in Raleigh this year.

Good luck!

Edited March 6, 2013 by Operator

[OJSub 0]

I have the utmost confidence that you will succeed in this endeavor just based upon your sincerity when writing. As you have suggested, I believe your best bet is to travel over there and meet her parents. From the fact you will meet them face-to-face, and for your future USCIS perspectives, it’s a win, win, situation. Who knows what their mind set will be or how savvy and informed they are regarding the situation of the US versus China. However, giving you food for thought, they might be addressing the long term stability between the two countries. For example, possibility, they are debating the strong viable economy growth potential for China. Yes, less freedom, but let’s view the US’s future with 17 Trillion dollars in debt, and still growing. Again, who knows how knowledgeable they are or what they are actually considering overall. Needless to say, be prepared to discuss any level of advantages as far as her future is concerned in the US. Additionally, read the WEB and any other resources to discover details about their culture. Even with all of our problems in the US, I still would take our country over any other today. I’m a strong patriot! (Smile) May God’s speed be with you and keep us informed of your progress when you have the time.

Thanks for the encouragement. I talked with my fiancee last night about the possibility of the visit. She was worried that the language barrier between her parents and myself would only frustrate them and make things worse. She could translate most things for us, but she is not completely fluent in English. There would be some complex ideas and as well as some things that she doesn't really have a context for, never having been here, that would be difficult to convey. I have asked the mutual friend that introduced us to try to pass along some of these subjects. I have not given up on the idea of visiting, but I have to take her concerns into consideration, as she knows her parents' disposition better than I do. In the mean time I am attempting to get an extension on the expiration date of our I-129f petition.

[OJSub 0]

April 4th is the Qingming holiday and maybe not a bad time to shoot for to go and meet the parents. As Darnell says showing up with a hongbao is a must. Check with our your fiancée as to how much. Assure them that you are very capable (and willing) to take care of their daughter and also that you know how important she is to her family. Expect tears and be respectful.

Raleigh/Durham has over 20,000 Chinese residents and isn't that far from Wilmington. My wife writes for China Star which is one of the largest Chinese language newspapers in the southeast and it's located in Cary. Cary also has a Buddhist temple and there are several great Chinese markets. There were several large CNY events in Raleigh this year.

Good luck!

Thanks for the information. We have discussed moving to the Triangle some time after she arrives, since I know her job prospects would be better there. She was really looking forward to a summer by the beach her first year here though. I did read about a "Chinatown" mall conversion with a cultural center across from RDU airport, but last I heard the plans had kind of stalled. I'll ask her about the Qingming holiday the next time we talk. We'll have to plan to visit some of those Chinese markets. It would be nice if I could greet her with a pouch of those hellfire spicy chicken feet that she likes.

[Ippsy Pippsy 31]

April 4th is the Qingming holiday and maybe not a bad time to shoot for to go and meet the parents. As Darnell says showing up with a hongbao is a must. Check with our your fiancée as to how much. Assure them that you are very capable (and willing) to take care of their daughter and also that you know how important she is to her family. Expect tears and be respectful.

Raleigh/Durham has over 20,000 Chinese residents and isn't that far from Wilmington. My wife writes for China Star which is one of the largest Chinese language newspapers in the southeast and it's located in Cary. Cary also has a Buddhist temple and there are several great Chinese markets. There were several large CNY events in Raleigh this year.

Good luck!

See the little flags at the side? You should be paying special attention to those who have China there! Now I don't, and maybe you should ignore everything else I say, but I think I can safely say that if you don't know what hongbao is, time to look it up.

They might not be religious, but they will still be a product of their culture. Which means you should know what is influencing them. Confusicism? Taoism? Know the basics and how it influences attitudes towards parents/marriage, that should help you here. Find a book like "Culture Shock: China" and read it.

Get a copy of the China Star, some information from the Buddhist temple, and photos of a Chinese market. Go visit and take them all with you. Don't forget the red envelope and anything else others tell you to bring!

[XiaoyunJohnson 3]

Hi,I totally understand your situation. As my parents almost acted the similar. At first they was agree to help me obtain the birth certificate, but then they said they would perfer I stay in China with my fiance instead of moving to America. I understand it just beacuse they care about me and they don't want a daugther marry so far away. If in China, we could watch out each other and see each other oftenly. But as I kept trying to pursuade them, let them know how much I want to be together with my fiance and slo more oppitunities for me than in china for my career, and told them more about their future grandson or granddaughter.My family finally accepted it. And My papa is helping me to obtain the birth certificate now, as My fiance and I are still waiting for our NOA2, it's taking forever.

BTW My fanice met my parents last year. He didn't speak Chinese, but he always wore a nice smiling on his face , it helped that kinda give a good impress for the family.

Good luck to you

[OJSub 0]

Hi,I totally understand your situation. As my parents almost acted the similar. At first they was agree to help me obtain the birth certificate, but then they said they would perfer I stay in China with my fiance instead of moving to America. I understand it just beacuse they care about me and they don't want a daugther marry so far away. If in China, we could watch out each other and see each other oftenly. But as I kept trying to pursuade them, let them know how much I want to be together with my fiance and slo more oppitunities for me than in china for my career, and told them more about their future grandson or granddaughter.My family finally accepted it. And My papa is helping me to obtain the birth certificate now, as My fiance and I are still waiting for our NOA2, it's taking forever.

BTW My fanice met my parents last year. He didn't speak Chinese, but he always wore a nice smiling on his face , it helped that kinda give a good impress for the family.

Good luck to you

Thank you for your words of encouragement. I am glad you were able to work things out with your family. Hopefully my fiancee will be able to do the same with her family. I just wish they had voiced their concerns before our NOA2 came through. Good luck on yours coming through quickly. The Vermont center got ours out about 1 month past the expected turn around time, but Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Years Day probably slowed them down a little. I hope you two will be able to start your life together soon.

[Maleman 5]

Thanks for the encouragement. I talked with my fiancee last night about the possibility of the visit. She was worried that the language barrier between her parents and myself would only frustrate them and make things worse. She could translate most things for us, but she is not completely fluent in English. There would be some complex ideas and as well as some things that she doesn't really have a context for, never having been here, that would be difficult to convey. I have asked the mutual friend that introduced us to try to pass along some of these subjects. I have not given up on the idea of visiting, but I have to take her concerns into consideration, as she knows her parents' disposition better than I do. In the mean time I am attempting to get an extension on the expiration date of our I-129f petition.

Stay steadfast my friend! I thought of one other idea today. You say your friend introduced you to your fiancée? Is she fluent in both English and Chinese? If so, and I assume you email your fiancée pretty often, then write emails to her parents and have them translated into Chinese. Even if her parents don't use email, the daughter could read Chinese to them via a phone, but it would be your thoughts. In other words, court the parents first from the deepest part of your heart. Yes, I realize time is of the essence. However, I would never underestimate the spoken word from the heart! With email, you could send your translated feelings, aspirations, and define your love for their daughter. If her friend is not that fluent in both languages, then find someone fluent in both languages. If her parents return the same courtesy then you may open a door. It is better to light one candle than to curse the darkness...

[Maxheadspace 48]

A lot of good suggestions here. Different cultures have different protocols for things like birth certificates and residencies. But almost always there are legal ways of wrenching those things free if they get stuck. My suggestion is to hire an attorney to get it faster. That may upset the parents, but as the attorney works the issue, you and your fiancé should be schmoozing the parents to win them over. In their minds, they probably believe they will never see their daughter again. I agree that you meeting them in person may help as well. The cost of an attorney in China probably isn't that expensive in dollars. I hired an Asian attorney and she was incredibly cheap compared to what I would have paid an American attorney.

[Darnell 8,478]

repeat - bring monies.

This is her first marriage, their only child, and you are intending to take her away from them.

What just happened?

Well, you took away their retirement program (Parents live with the child, when retired) and

they've doted on her for 20+ years (as she's an only child, a product of the China One Child Policy) and

any hope of minding the grandchild is being yanked from them (child minding is a big dealio for grandparents)

so

bring monies.

You can think of it as a dowry, if that helps you get over the culture shock aspect.

You might want to offer up that any children born will be raised bi-lingual, and will be sent to the grandparents each summer vacation after the 2nd grade in school, combined with 2 yearly trips each year on HER, with one of them including you.

Whew !

Seriously - this is going to be the biggest negotiation you're gonna make in yer lifetime - you really should plan ahead. Bring 20,000 usd and place half in their hands - put the other half in yer lass's hands and tell her to use it for the engagement party. That engagement party will be the biggest 'blind faith' investment that you put out - she'll get 1 to 2 times back in red envelopes when planned properly (and trust me - for 10K USD? She can plan it properly) and if'n yer a nice fella, she'll share that with you .

But don't listen to me, aye?

Get some other opinions from China Folk who married a lass (as her first marriage in her 20's) and see what they say, aye?

Go Get Em !

[OJSub 0]

repeat - bring monies.

This is her first marriage, their only child, and you are intending to take her away from them.

What just happened?

Well, you took away their retirement program (Parents live with the child, when retired) and

they've doted on her for 20+ years (as she's an only child, a product of the China One Child Policy) and

any hope of minding the grandchild is being yanked from them (child minding is a big dealio for grandparents)

so

bring monies.

You can think of it as a dowry, if that helps you get over the culture shock aspect.

You might want to offer up that any children born will be raised bi-lingual, and will be sent to the grandparents each summer vacation after the 2nd grade in school, combined with 2 yearly trips each year on HER, with one of them including you.

Whew !

Seriously - this is going to be the biggest negotiation you're gonna make in yer lifetime - you really should plan ahead. Bring 20,000 usd and place half in their hands - put the other half in yer lass's hands and tell her to use it for the engagement party. That engagement party will be the biggest 'blind faith' investment that you put out - she'll get 1 to 2 times back in red envelopes when planned properly (and trust me - for 10K USD? She can plan it properly) and if'n yer a nice fella, she'll share that with you .

But don't listen to me, aye?

Get some other opinions from China Folk who married a lass (as her first marriage in her 20's) and see what they say, aye?

Go Get Em !

Thanks for continuing to follow up with me. Just a brief sit-rep, currently my fiancee tells me that her parents are unwilling to meet with me. Also, coming up with $20,000 is out reach for me currently. That comes up to more than half of my yearly salary. Money is just money, and she is absolutely worth it, but an unsecured loan is my only chance of coming up with that much any time this year. The subject of children is a point of contention between her and her parents. She has never wanted children, and neither do I. Both of us would only ever consider adoption, which is one of the many reasons we are a good match. Previously her parents were fine with her choice, but have switched on that view as well.

In the mean time I have been trying to communicate with the consulate in Guangzhou about our case regarding the expiration date of my petition, as well as the possibility of using alternate documents. When I talked with the state department domestically they said that if no action had been taken by my fiancee by the May 4th expiration date of my petition then the case would be considered abandoned and we would have to start over. However, when I sent my email to the consulate explaining the situation and asking about the possibility of an extension, they replied saying that applicants generally have one year from the date their "packet 3" is sent to them to return it. In our case, they said that my fiancee would need to return her packet 3 forms by January 23, 2014. Does this make sense. I read another post on this forum saying that automatic extensions are especially common with applications in China. The same post also mentioned a form letter that could be sent to request an extension. I just don't know if I should advise her to send in her packet 3 forms now and then ask that her interview date be pushed back, or if it is better to wait to send in those forms until after we have settled things with her parents. I can send transcripts of my email correspondence with the consulate if I am being unclear.

I also wanted to ask a few questions about the hukou book you mentioned. Does that document need to be taken to the interview, or is it only needed in order to obtain other documents needed for the interview? Or both? If it is needed to obtain other documents, are there any alternate ways to obtain these documents? I asked the consulate if there were any alternate documents that could be used in its place, but they ignored that part of my question both times. I read on the consulates FAQ that if the applicant was unable to provide a particular document that they could bring a letter explaining the circumstances that made that document unavailable, and that this would be taken into consideration. It did not specify which documents were potentially excusable though.

Thanks again for all your efforts to give me advice and direction. I can understand that they would have concerns, but the whole thing really seems to have come out of left field considering they are the ones who wanted their daughter to be introduced to an American in the first place. Anyway, if you have any advice to address these questions, I would be much obliged.