K1 Timing and Visiting

[tallwall15 0]

This site is great and the forums are so helpful. I've read the sticky about visiting, but still have some questions. Here is the timeline and future timeline for visits:

-First time in US visiting under VWP in Jan 2013 for 2 weeks.

-Second visit to US under VWP in July 2013 for 2 months.

-Third visit to US under VWP in Jan 2014 for 3 months.

-Fourth visit to US in (DEPENDS?, see below) 2014 under K1 Visa and get married.

Now my plan is to propose during the second visit and plan the wedding during the third visit and get married during fourth visit. We wanted to have the third visit be with the K1 visa and get married, but we just didn't see enough time to tell family, plan the wedding and actually get married in this time. So I have some questions on different scenarios:

1. If we apply for K1 during the second visit and it is approved BEFORE the third visit, does she HAVE to use the K1 to come to US or can she use VWP and then use K1 for fourth visit? The K1 expiration is 6 months? Is this correct?

2. (2 part question) Part 1: If we try to time the application for K1 a little later and it is approved during or after the third visit, how long must she wait to come back on K1 visa for fourth visit? Does she have to wait any length of time, or since we have a K1 visa can she come like the next week? Part 2: If we choose this scenario, then she will be visiting on the third visit under VWP while K1 visa is pending, which is fine from what I've read on the forums, but she will have to provide evidence of strong ties. She lives with her mom, will be finished with school by the third visit. She does bartend once a week at a disco and she has a job teaching young children everyday during the week. I'm not sure if she will still have this job, but what do you suggest for evidence? AND what do you suggest she say if questioned about visit but K1 visa is not brought up?

3. Does the spacing and length of time inside the US and outside the US seem acceptable for all visits?

4. I am using an assumption of 6-7 month end to end approval time for K1 visa. Is this too short? Too long?

5. Any other suggestions about different strategies we could use in terms of visiting, timing, visas etc.? Basically the time between the third and fourth visit (about 4 months) is the only time she NEEDS to be home, to finish school and see her family for Christmas one last time before coming here. And she can't come earlier than the date for the second visit.

Our goal is to minimize time spent away from each other (of course ) but use the time she NEEDS to be home to our advantage by having the K1 in process during this time.

Thanks so much for any answers!!

[tallwall15 0]

^

[baron555 934]

but we just didn't see enough time to tell family, plan the wedding and actually get married in this time.

The K-1 process requires everyone to think differently about a typical marriage. See below.

1. If we apply for K1 during the second visit and it is approved

Just a bit of clarification and more for proper terminology, the petitioner petitions for a K-1 visa for the beneficiary. USCIS approves the petition. The Embassy actually issues the approval for the actual visa. So besides filing the proper forms and documents and fees at the appropriate times, there are in essence two approvals, the approval for the petition and the approval for the visa.

BEFORE the third visit, does she HAVE to use the K1 to come to US or can she use VWP and then use K1 for fourth visit?

Nope, as soon as the K-1 visa is approved and placed into the passport, that will be the next one used. You have no choice.

The K1 expiration is 6 months? Is this correct?

Correct, but many Embassies will extend that time period for good reasons. Emailing them after it is issued is what is done.

2. (2 part question) Part 1: If we try to time the application for K1 a little later and it is approved during or after the third visit, how long must she wait to come back on K1 visa for fourth visit? Does she have to wait any length of time, or since we have a K1 visa can she come like the next week? Part 2: If we choose this scenario, then she will be visiting on the third visit under VWP while K1 visa is pending, which is fine from what I've read on the forums, but she will have to provide evidence of strong ties. She lives with her mom, will be finished with school by the third visit. She does bartend once a week at a disco and she has a job teaching young children everyday during the week. I'm not sure if she will still have this job, but what do you suggest for evidence? AND what do you suggest she say if questioned about visit but K1 visa is not brought up?

3. Does the spacing and length of time inside the US and outside the US seem acceptable for all visits?

All of the above has one underlying assumption that may backfire on you, with no reason and no reflection on your fiance. It is entirely possible that she will be denied entry to the US at any point using the VWP. Once the K-1 is filed, that fact is now found in CBP's (border patrol) computer system. When she attempts entry into the US, she must tell the truth, if asked, and state that she is going to visit her fiance. To say anything else could be construed at visa fraud and could be a game-breaker. I would not plan on 100% certainty to be able to enter the US once the K-1 is filed. Sri, but you must have a Plan B for that.

4. I am using an assumption of 6-7 month end to end approval time for K1 visa. Is this too short? Too long?

No, too short. Better to plan for a 7-10-12 month turnaroud.

5. Any other suggestions about different strategies we could use in terms of visiting, timing, visas etc.? Basically the time between the third and fourth visit (about 4 months) is the only time she NEEDS to be home, to finish school and see her family for Christmas one last time before coming here. And she can't come earlier than the date for the second visit.

Once she has the visa in hand is THE time to plan the wedding. You can casually plan prior but to do anything further could cause too much anxiety; your families need to understand that your relationship can not be normal because it is not normal and must comply with the visa and immigration process.

Our goal is to minimize time spent away from each other (of course ) but use the time she NEEDS to be home to our advantage by having the K1 in process during this time.

Thanks so much for any answers!!

[CaroSL 68]

Where is your fiancée from?

1- I think she does. My advice for this whole process, this is complicated enough, and enough of a pain, to not voluntarily make it worse.

2- To obtain the visa, she must be in her home country. After you recieve NOA2 your fiancé will get what is called "packet 3". It can take from 3 weeks to a month and a half between NOA2 and Packet 3. From the moment she hase packet 3 till the interview, it is advisable that she is home. Depending on the practice at her embassy, she will need to prepare a lot of stuff, send them back, and she'll be assigned an interview that she'll need to attend. Very tough to do all that from the US unless you have someone that could handle express mail you the packets and do some of the work for you (someone you trust enough to handle this for you, too), and you are ok to have her travel back to her home country last minute for the interview.

However, if your fiancée is in the US when she gets packet 3, she doesn't have to respond right away (I think NOA2 is valid for 4 or 6 months... smthg like that)

My advice: if you guys don't have NOA2 yet in january, sure, go ahead with the visit. If you do, then let your fiancé complete the process, once it is done, you guys can be together forever...

3- yes. but it just depends on the officer at POE. Tell her to bring evidences (that she is in school, that she has a job, etc). Before filling K-1 I doubt you'll have any problem, so you are talking of 3rd visit... at that point in time, maybe you'll have NOA2 and won't do the 3rd visit on WVP

4- too short. Plan 7 to 10-12 months

5- Maybe you should plan to visit her... It is always nice that the USC visit the foreign fiancé too. My fiancé came to visit me for 3 days in october, you have no idea how much I love him for doing that kind of things. It gave us something to look forward to in the short term, cut the waiting time in the middle, he met my family and friends (36 new people in 3 days, can you imagine this?), they were so happy to meet him! And it shows he cares about what is important for me. My family and friends are, he wanted to meet them. Even if it was very tiring to come over for such a small amount of time. I am still so amazed he did it, and so grateful...

6- there is no 6....

Just remember: You have no influence on the process, it won't go as you plan or as you wish. Maybe it will speed up, maybe it will slow down. You shouldn't make too many definite plans too far in the future, and be a bit flexible to adapt to the process, caus it won't adapt to you

Good luck!

[tallwall15 0]

Thanks for the responses!

She is from Spain. I've actually gone there in October 2012, should be going again June 2013, and hopefully one more time November 2013, so I will have plenty of visits to her

So now that I have some answers, I've re-done my thought process and have some more questions:

[tallwall15 0]

Not letting me edit my post, anyways

Thanks for the responses!

She is from Spain. POE in JFK.

I've actually gone there in October 2012, should be going again June 2013, and hopefully one more time November 2013, so I will have plenty of visits to her

So now that we have some answers, we've re-done our thought process and will most likely start the K1 process when she arrives in July 2013 for second visit. Now when she comes in Jan 2014 for the third visit under VWP, the K1 will be pending so I want to restate my original question about providing evidence of strong ties:

1. What evidence suggestions do you have for this case: She will have graduated college by this time. Lives at home with mom. Might still have a job teaching young children daily and a bartending job once a week (have to confirm). Will also have to confirm about bills she specifically pays. But what do you think would help with convincing evidence? She has lots of family there, but we are wondering what else we can gather for proof.

Edited March 4, 2013 by tallwall15

[JensJrny2Ray 367]

Not letting me edit my post, anyways

Thanks for the responses!

She is from Spain. POE in JFK.

I've actually gone there in October 2012, should be going again June 2013, and hopefully one more time November 2013, so I will have plenty of visits to her

So now that we have some answers, we've re-done our thought process and will most likely start the K1 process when she arrives in July 2013 for second visit. Now when she comes in Jan 2014 for the third visit under VWP, the K1 will be pending so I want to restate my original question about providing evidence of strong ties:

1. What evidence suggestions do you have for this case: She will have graduated college by this time. Lives at home with mom. Might still have a job teaching young children daily and a bartending job once a week (have to confirm). Will also have to confirm about bills she specifically pays. But what do you think would help with convincing evidence? She has lots of family there, but we are wondering what else we can gather for proof.

I think the jobs will help. She'll have jobs to go back to and a return ticket itinerary to show. When entering the USA she would just say she's visiting her fiance. They may or may not ask about a petition pending for her. (I was asked only once).

[baron555 934]

1. What evidence suggestions do you have for this case: She will have graduated college by this time. Lives at home with mom. Might still have a job teaching young children daily and a bartending job once a week (have to confirm). Will also have to confirm about bills she specifically pays. But what do you think would help with convincing evidence? She has lots of family there, but we are wondering what else we can gather for proof.

Lots of stamps of visiting other countries in her passport. From what you've listed, unless she's a seasoned traveller, there can be some probability that she could be denied.

Not saying she will, but you two should take that into mind and be prepared. Personally I wouldn't want to risk it; the K-1 takes only about 7-10 months total. With Skype and phone calls, that time will fly by. You can always visit her during this period.

[CaroSL 68]

Not letting me edit my post, anyways

Thanks for the responses!

She is from Spain. POE in JFK.

I've actually gone there in October 2012, should be going again June 2013, and hopefully one more time November 2013, so I will have plenty of visits to her

This is great, you guys are very lucky! It will make the process feel smoother...

Honnestly, about ties, I have no idea... I had no ties to my country. I decided not to take the risk and not to visit while the K-1 was pending. (I visited twice before sending the K-1, 4 months total...). But we were separated, and this was long. If I was to do it again, I'd make the same decision though. But this is not based on facts, this is only the feeling I had they could easily deny me...

I wish you the best!

[tallwall15 0]

Ok, so she will only have the once a week bartending job and the bills are in her mom's name. I'm pretty sure her passport has tons of stamps because she travelled to a lot of places, this will help?

Anything else? She has a car, what about insurance payments or anything related to that?

Is there a way to show strong family ties, like showing her family is established with jobs and such, does that help at all?

Any other suggestions of things she can change now so we can have more evidence in the future like change her phone bill to be in her name, etc?

Edit: Also if she does get denied for the trip while K1 is pending, does this have any effect on the K1 petition?

Thanks for all the help so far!

Edited March 5, 2013 by tallwall15

[CaroSL 68]

Ok, so she will only have the once a week bartending job and the bills are in her mom's name. I'm pretty sure her passport has tons of stamps because she travelled to a lot of places, this will help?

Anything else? She has a car, what about insurance payments or anything related to that? That could be a +. In doubt, bring everything you have

Is there a way to show strong family ties, like showing her family is established with jobs and such, does that help at all? No, this will still exist when she comes on the K-1. She will still use the K-1 and marry you, and stay in the US. She needs to bring proof that she needs to go back home... that she has unfinished business.

Any other suggestions of things she can change now so we can have more evidence in the future like change her phone bill to be in her name, etc? That could be good. If she pays bills for the house (gaz, electricity, etc.) that might be interesting

Edit: Also if she does get denied for the trip while K1 is pending, does this have any effect on the K1 petition? No, she will just have to explain she has been denied entry because she didn't have enough ties to her country, but she always intended to wait for the end of the visa process to marry you, on the k-1. (but you should double check that, I am not 100% sure.) If you research it in the forum, I am sure some threads explore this subject. Or you could post another thread just about that...

Thanks for all the help so far!

Edited March 5, 2013 by CaroSL

[baron555 934]

Ok, so she will only have the once a week bartending job and the bills are in her mom's name.

Not really much, not like being a CEO of a major company.

I'm pretty sure her passport has tons of stamps because she travelled to a lot of places, this will help?

Yes

Anything else? She has a car, what about insurance payments or anything related to that?

Is there a way to show strong family ties, like showing her family is established with jobs and such, does that help at all?

Any other suggestions of things she can change now so we can have more evidence in the future like change her phone bill to be in her name, etc?

You should draft an invitation letter to give to her to have. In this you will state the exact dates of her visit and that you will ensure that she will be returning on such and such date.

Edit: Also if she does get denied for the trip while K1 is pending, does this have any effect on the K1 petition?

No affect at all; she wouldn't have done anything wrong, just got turned back. Again, I'm not saying she will be BUT you should have a plan just in case.

Thanks for all the help so far!

[tallwall15 0]

Ok thanks!

And I found out the passport with all the stamps is actually expired and she got a fresh one recently. Would it still be good to bring the old one to show the stamps and traveled places?

[CaroSL 68]

Ok thanks!

And I found out the passport with all the stamps is actually expired and she got a fresh one recently. Would it still be good to bring the old one to show the stamps and traveled places?

Maybe. But they should have record of her visiting (and leaving) the US before. This is a good sign she'll live again in itself.

[lost_at_sea 995]

Ok thanks!

And I found out the passport with all the stamps is actually expired and she got a fresh one recently. Would it still be good to bring the old one to show the stamps and traveled places?

I lost my passport just before we applied for the petition, and I've travelled to the US 3 times already on the new, empty, one with no issues since September 2012 (travelling to the US *again* in April - we travel a lot).

I travel loads in Europe, but being European I dont get many stamps for that.

It's no worries, though - the US has records of travel in and out of the country. The last time I went in (last week) the immigration officer made small talk and asked me when the last time I was in the US was, and I was able to tell him that time and the time before just off the top of my head without evidence - I suspect he was able to see if I was accurate on his screen, but I didn't ask him (I do often ask them stuff, and they often are happy to tell you). It's really not that scary. They're looking for shifty people who are obviously confused or lying.

Edited March 6, 2013 by lost_at_sea