Stalin Still a Hero in the FSU

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Carnegie: Stalin still admired in ex-Soviet lands

MOSCOW — An opinion survey commissioned by the Carnegie Endowment says that Soviet dictator Josef Stalin has remained widely admired in Russia and other ex-Soviet nations, even though millions of people died under his brutally repressive rule.

The Carnegie report, released Friday, was based on the first-ever comparative opinion polls in Russia, Armenia, Azerbaijan and Georgia. It found that support for Stalin in Russia has actually increased since the 1991 collapse of the Soviet Union.

The report has concluded that public attitudes to the dictator have improved during Russian President Vladimir Putin's 13-year rule as the Kremlin has found Stalin's image useful in its efforts to tighten control.

The tyrant led the Soviet Union from 1924 until his death in 1953. Communists and other hardliners credit him with leading the country to victory in World War II, and making it a nuclear superpower, while others condemn the brutal purges that killed millions of people.

One of the report's authors, Lev Gudkov, a Russian sociologist whose polling agency conducted the survey, noted that in 1989, the peak of Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev's efforts to liberalize the country and expose Stalinist crimes, only 12 percent of Russians polled described Stalin as one of the most prominent historical figures.

In the Carnegie poll last year, 42 percent of Russian respondents named Stalin as the most influential historical figure.

"Vladimir Putin's Russia of 2012 needs symbols of authority and national strength, however controversial they may be, to validate the newly authoritarian political order," Gudkov wrote in the Carnegie report. "Stalin, a despotic leader responsible for mass bloodshed but also still identified with wartime victory and national unity, fits this need for symbols that reinforce the current political ideology."

Putin, a former KGB officer, has avoided open public praise or criticism of Stalin, but he has restored Soviet-era symbols and focused on the nation's Soviet-era achievements rather than Stalinist crimes. Kremlin critics have seen attempts to whitewash Stalin's image as part of Putin's rollback on democracy.

Many in Russia have been dismayed by government-sponsored school textbooks that paint Stalin in a largely positive light and by the reconstruction of a Moscow subway station that restored old Soviet national anthem lyrics praising Stalin as part of its interior decoration.

In the most recent sign of respect for the dictator earlier this year, the regional legislature decreed that the city of Volgograd, which was known as Stalingrad until its renaming in 1961, should once again be known by its old name on days commemorating the historic WWII battle. In some Russian cities, authorities ordered images of Stalin to be put on city buses as part of festivities.

The Carnegie report revealed that while a high number of Russians have a positive view of Stalin, his era mostly draws negative perceptions, an ambiguity that reflects public confusion, the legacy of totalitarian "doublethink" and paternalist state model.

An even greater admiration of Stalin was seen in his homeland, Georgia, where 45 percent of respondents expressed a positive view of him. In Armenia, 38 percent of those polled said their country will always need leaders like Stalin. In Azerbaijan, where respondents viewed Stalin more negatively compared to the three other nations, 22 percent of those polled didn't even know who Stalin was.

http://xfinity.comcast.net/articles/news-world-europe/20130301/EU.Russia.Stalin_s.Legacy/

[Danno 1,228]

We embrace our propaganda, they embrace theirs.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

Does this mean Bobby Bowden is a Commie. I had no idea Tallahassee was a hot bed of Communism.

[X Factor 1,112]

Propaganda is powerful

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

We embrace our propaganda, they embrace theirs.

Sure.

But consider the opinion of my MIL who was a child during WW2. She was evacuated to Tajikistan eventually, after seeing things no one should ever see. When she came back, still a young girl, "everything was broken". They made soup from grass.

Stalin was "Boss" and every year "things got better". Do we not hear the same thing from admirers of Obama? In her opinion "things could be worse"...they HAD been worse. Sure, some "bad people" who would only hurt the country and everyone else had to be killed. Do we not hear the same propaganda from Democrats who insist on trying to cripple the economy because of budget cuts less than the cost of a minor hurricane?

I am not agreeing or disagreeing, only pointing out that some people have a legitimate reason for their thoughts. we can pick apart the reason from a distance and with time as a mitigating factor, but in the memory of a person that was a young girl at the time, Stalin is as much a Hero as Kennedy was for young people in the early 60's

The Soviet Union was a very comfortable rut for a lot of people, the same kind of people Obama is cultivating. There was little chance to do "well" but -0- chance to "fail". No one was unemployed, no one was homeless, everyone had crappy medical care and a sparse but high fat, high starch diet that kept their bellies full. They had to stand in line for food, but hey, so did everyone else and it wasn't like they had to make a tee time at the country club! everyone had cheap transportation and utilities. For a LOT of people that was a pretty good life and a lot better life than in many other countries, AND the great promise of Marxism was always just on the horizon.

The Su followed Czarist Russia and that was certainly no better a life for people, perhaps worse. There had never existed any other form of life. Crude communications kept anyone from knowing it was not the same the world over.

Today, we have a whole political party here promising the same thing, perhaps they see such information as this as a beacon of hope for them.

Not everyone is happy the Soviet Union is no longer around and a large part of the population has not adjusted, perhaps never will, but they will eventually die off. I look at around at the young people I see in Ukraine and wonder if the demise of the SU was really all that good for them. Compare the values of most Ukrainians born in the 60's or earlier, with those of the Ukrainians born in the 90's, though the same has happened here, IMO.

One of the interesting things I did there was some independent study of what was taught to Soviet people about the US. Imagine my surprise when I found their propaganda was NOT lies! It was the TRUTH. Everything they said about the US was TRUE. Everything they said was BAD. But they did not have to lie, just leave out anything good.

We see the same from people who want to ban guns, for example. Misrepresent the FACTS or tell only half the FACTS and a whole different story and impression appears. For a lot of people, that is good enough.

[Danno 1,228]

Sure.

But consider the opinion of my MIL who was a child during WW2. She was evacuated to Tajikistan eventually, after seeing things no one should ever see. When she came back, still a young girl, "everything was broken". They made soup from grass.

Stalin was "Boss" and every year "things got better". Do we not hear the same thing from admirers of Obama? In her opinion "things could be worse"...they HAD been worse. Sure, some "bad people" who would only hurt the country and everyone else had to be killed. Do we not hear the same propaganda from Democrats who insist on trying to cripple the economy because of budget cuts less than the cost of a minor hurricane?

I am not agreeing or disagreeing, only pointing out that some people have a legitimate reason for their thoughts. we can pick apart the reason from a distance and with time as a mitigating factor, but in the memory of a person that was a young girl at the time, Stalin is as much a Hero as Kennedy was for young people in the early 60's

The Soviet Union was a very comfortable rut for a lot of people, the same kind of people Obama is cultivating. There was little chance to do "well" but -0- chance to "fail". No one was unemployed, no one was homeless, everyone had crappy medical care and a sparse but high fat, high starch diet that kept their bellies full. They had to stand in line for food, but hey, so did everyone else and it wasn't like they had to make a tee time at the country club! everyone had cheap transportation and utilities. For a LOT of people that was a pretty good life and a lot better life than in many other countries, AND the great promise of Marxism was always just on the horizon.

The Su followed Czarist Russia and that was certainly no better a life for people, perhaps worse. There had never existed any other form of life. Crude communications kept anyone from knowing it was not the same the world over.

Today, we have a whole political party here promising the same thing, perhaps they see such information as this as a beacon of hope for them.

Not everyone is happy the Soviet Union is no longer around and a large part of the population has not adjusted, perhaps never will, but they will eventually die off. I look at around at the young people I see in Ukraine and wonder if the demise of the SU was really all that good for them. Compare the values of most Ukrainians born in the 60's or earlier, with those of the Ukrainians born in the 90's, though the same has happened here, IMO.

One of the interesting things I did there was some independent study of what was taught to Soviet people about the US. Imagine my surprise when I found their propaganda was NOT lies! It was the TRUTH. Everything they said about the US was TRUE. Everything they said was BAD. But they did not have to lie, just leave out anything good.

We see the same from people who want to ban guns, for example. Misrepresent the FACTS or tell only half the FACTS and a whole different story and impression appears. For a lot of people, that is good enough.

[X Factor 1,112]

Insanity has no bounds

[spookyturtle 9,466]

Misrepresent the FACTS or tell only half the FACTS and a whole different story and impression appears. For a lot of people, that is good enough.

Hello pot......

[ready4ONE 5,400]

Seriously Gary?? The current budget wrangling is pretty much the same as killing millions?

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Seriously Gary?? The current budget wrangling is pretty much the same as killing millions?

Seriously who-ever-you-are? That's what you took from what I wrote? Feel free to read again.

The propaganda we receive on virtually every issue is identical to the propaganda that was fed to Soviet citizens. Maybe worse. The issues may differ but the BS is the same. Every aspect of our government function has deteriorated to being manipulated for the benefit of one party or another.

Do you know anyone that lived in the FSU under Stalin? Ever share part of your life with them? Have you ever discussed their life during the 2nd war or under the Stalin regime? I have.

If you are trying to establish that I am doing anything but explaining how a person could have those beliefs, you are going the wrong way with this. I am not a supporter of Stalin or the bad things he did, I merely offer that I can understand, from the point of view of people that lived during that time, that the man could be considered a hero by some people.

The flat we own in Donetsk, about three clicks better than public housing here (10 clicks better than Chicago Housing Authority projects), was built by Stalin. Before that many people had no homes. Cookie cutter concrete boxes with sometimes electricity and heat beat all hell out of shelters made of rubble. You are going to tell someone that the guy that built her a home and gave her electricity is a "bad guy"? Most of the infrastructure that exists today was built AND rebuilt by Stalin and that is a simple fact. No one needs to like it, but that is the fact. Czar Nicholas II sure as hell did not build the Metro systems in Kiev and Moscow, lay the trolley tracks or put in the buses. But all that stuff was there to be destroyed in WW2 only 16 years after Stalin took power. Pretty good progress for a "developing country" that had just suffered an World War, a Revolution and a horrible civil war. Obama has not been able to pass a budget through congress in 4 years.

I mean just follow the timeline and pull your head out of your @ss. World War in 1914-1918, Revolution AND World War in 1917. Bloody Civil War 1918-1922...add in the Spanish Flu in 1918 and the country is pretty well destroyed. Soviet Union formed in 1922, Internal struggles 1922-1924, Stalin takes control in 1924 of a decimated country and in 1940 the cities have housing, trolleys, buses, subways, modern (for 1940)roads, electricity. Who did that? Roosevelt? 1941-1945 it is all destroyed again, 22 million people killed and by the time Stalin dies in 1953 it is nearly all put back...without Marshall Plan funds AND made the country a major world Super-Power at the same time. Now say you are someone that lived in that country at that time. Can I tell you that Stalin was a "monster" with no redeeming values? Really? A lot of those people are still alive.

Just as the Soviets told only the bad stuff about the USA, so have we told only bad stuff about Stalin and so have his successors in the FSU. This goes more to the peculiar FSU habit of having to crash and burn anyone that came before politically. I mean Kruschev had to destroy the legacy of Stalin and Brezhnev had to destroy the legacy of Kruschev. Kind of ridiculous, but then again Obama is still blaming everything on Bush, so maybe we are the same.

Stalin has come and gone in popularity more than once. He has always maintained some degree of popularity in his native Georgia and it is the only place you will still see statues of him...other FSU countries still have statues of Lenin

[james&olya 1,121]

Seriously who-ever-you-are? That's what you took from what I wrote? Feel free to read again.

The propaganda we receive on virtually every issue is identical to the propaganda that was fed to Soviet citizens. Maybe worse. The issues may differ but the BS is the same. Every aspect of our government function has deteriorated to being manipulated for the benefit of one party or another.

Do you know anyone that lived in the FSU under Stalin? Ever share part of your life with them? Have you ever discussed their life during the 2nd war or under the Stalin regime? I have.

If you are trying to establish that I am doing anything but explaining how a person could have those beliefs, you are going the wrong way with this. I am not a supporter of Stalin or the bad things he did, I merely offer that I can understand, from the point of view of people that lived during that time, that the man could be considered a hero by some people.

The flat we own in Donetsk, about three clicks better than public housing here (10 clicks better than Chicago Housing Authority projects), was built by Stalin. Before that many people had no homes. Cookie cutter concrete boxes with sometimes electricity and heat beat all hell out of shelters made of rubble. You are going to tell someone that the guy that built her a home and gave her electricity is a "bad guy"? Most of the infrastructure that exists today was built AND rebuilt by Stalin and that is a simple fact. No one needs to like it, but that is the fact. Czar Nicholas II sure as hell did not build the Metro systems in Kiev and Moscow, lay the trolley tracks or put in the buses. But all that stuff was there to be destroyed in WW2 only 16 years after Stalin took power. Pretty good progress for a "developing country" that had just suffered an World War, a Revolution and a horrible civil war. Obama has not been able to pass a budget through congress in 4 years.

I mean just follow the timeline and pull your head out of your @ss. World War in 1914-1918, Revolution AND World War in 1917. Bloody Civil War 1918-1922...add in the Spanish Flu in 1918 and the country is pretty well destroyed. Soviet Union formed in 1922, Internal struggles 1922-1924, Stalin takes control in 1924 of a decimated country and in 1940 the cities have housing, trolleys, buses, subways, modern (for 1940)roads, electricity. Who did that? Roosevelt? 1941-1945 it is all destroyed again, 22 million people killed and by the time Stalin dies in 1953 it is nearly all put back...without Marshall Plan funds AND made the country a major world Super-Power at the same time. Now say you are someone that lived in that country at that time. Can I tell you that Stalin was a "monster" with no redeeming values? Really? A lot of those people are still alive.

Just as the Soviets told only the bad stuff about the USA, so have we told only bad stuff about Stalin and so have his successors in the FSU. This goes more to the peculiar FSU habit of having to crash and burn anyone that came before politically. I mean Kruschev had to destroy the legacy of Stalin and Brezhnev had to destroy the legacy of Kruschev. Kind of ridiculous, but then again Obama is still blaming everything on Bush, so maybe we are the same.

Stalin has come and gone in popularity more than once. He has always maintained some degree of popularity in his native Georgia and it is the only place you will still see statues of him...other FSU countries still have statues of Lenin

I also have a MIL that lived under Stalin. She was a true believer in communism and had nostalgia for the security it offered. She was skeptical of the US but didn't try to talk her daughter out of marrying me and coming here. Since visiting here the first time she has done a 180 in her politics but she still holds no hostility toward her former communist government. What they, the people of the FSU, endured during WWII is incredible! We talk about our ancestors 'taming the wilderness'. I would take that times 1000 compared to what they as a people have faced in the last 100 years!

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I also have a MIL that lived under Stalin. She was a true believer in communism and had nostalgia for the security it offered. She was skeptical of the US but didn't try to talk her daughter out of marrying me and coming here. Since visiting here the first time she has done a 180 in her politics but she still holds no hostility toward her former communist government. What they, the people of the FSU, endured during WWII is incredible! We talk about our ancestors 'taming the wilderness'. I would take that times 1000 compared to what they as a people have faced in the last 100 years!

If Alla had a sister I would say you married her!

I have the most incredible respect for my MIL simply for what she endured. It is just shocking, and I barely have the fortitude to discuss it. You simply cannot argue with someone that has opinions based on those experiences.

My father was a WW2 combat veteran and I would never diminish what HE did. The horrors he experienced but he could always be sure of one very important thing...no matter what he experienced or saw or did or was done to him, his FAMILY was safe at home in the USA and cared for. The Soviet soldier could only imagine that the horrors HE experienced were also happening to his wife and children hundreds of miles away. While he fought in Stalingrad, his family in Sevastopol was bombarded by railway artillery every day. Women and children in Donetsk were marched to a bomb crater and shot because they were "slavs" They shot through the children being held by their mothers to save bullets! If they were still crying while the bulldozer pushed dirt over them...so what?

The "lucky ones" were evacuated to the central Asian Republics where they lived in conditions worse than our pioneers, but at least no one murdered them.

It's SICK. It is sickening. I am surprised anyone was able to function in society after that, let alone rebuild the country from piles of rubble.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I also have a MIL that lived under Stalin. She was a true believer in communism and had nostalgia for the security it offered. She was skeptical of the US but didn't try to talk her daughter out of marrying me and coming here. Since visiting here the first time she has done a 180 in her politics but she still holds no hostility toward her former communist government. What they, the people of the FSU, endured during WWII is incredible! We talk about our ancestors 'taming the wilderness'. I would take that times 1000 compared to what they as a people have faced in the last 100 years!

If Alla had a sister I would say you married her!

I have the most incredible respect for my MIL simply for what she endured. It is just shocking, and I barely have the fortitude to discuss it. You simply cannot argue with someone that has opinions based on those experiences.

My father was a WW2 combat veteran and I would never diminish what HE did. The horrors he experienced but he could always be sure of one very important thing...no matter what he experienced or saw or did or was done to him, his FAMILY was safe at home in the USA and cared for. The Soviet soldier could only imagine that the horrors HE experienced were also happening to his wife and children hundreds of miles away. While he fought in Stalingrad, his family in Sevastopol was bombarded by railway artillery every day. Women and children in Donetsk were marched to a bomb crater and shot because they were "slavs" They shot through the children being held by their mothers to save bullets! If they were still crying while the bulldozer pushed dirt over them...so what?

The "lucky ones" were evacuated to the central Asian Republics where they lived in conditions worse than our pioneers, but at least no one murdered them.

It's SICK. It is sickening. I am surprised anyone was able to function in society after that, let alone rebuild the country from piles of rubble.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I also have a MIL that lived under Stalin. She was a true believer in communism and had nostalgia for the security it offered. She was skeptical of the US but didn't try to talk her daughter out of marrying me and coming here. Since visiting here the first time she has done a 180 in her politics but she still holds no hostility toward her former communist government. What they, the people of the FSU, endured during WWII is incredible! We talk about our ancestors 'taming the wilderness'. I would take that times 1000 compared to what they as a people have faced in the last 100 years!

If Alla had a sister I would say you married her!

I have the most incredible respect for my MIL simply for what she endured. It is just shocking, and I barely have the fortitude to discuss it. You simply cannot argue with someone that has opinions based on those experiences.

My father was a WW2 combat veteran and I would never diminish what HE did. The horrors he experienced but he could always be sure of one very important thing...no matter what he experienced or saw or did or was done to him, his FAMILY was safe at home in the USA and cared for. The Soviet soldier could only imagine that the horrors HE experienced were also happening to his wife and children hundreds of miles away. While he fought in Stalingrad, his family in Sevastopol was bombarded by railway artillery every day. Women and children in Donetsk were marched to a bomb crater and shot because they were "slavs" They shot through the children being held by their mothers to save bullets! If they were still crying while the bulldozer pushed dirt over them...so what?

The "lucky ones" were evacuated to the central Asian Republics where they lived in conditions worse than our pioneers, but at least no one murdered them.

It's SICK. It is sickening. I am surprised anyone was able to function in society after that, let alone rebuild the country from piles of rubble.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Wow! A triple post! The senility of it all!