2nd I-129F Petition after 1st Denial - any point in doing that?

[Jarun 1]

From Consulate 2-22-13: "A review of the case and the circumstances surrounding the application show that the Consular officer and consular staff conducted a thorough interview of the applicant and the case. After the interview, It was determined that there was insufficient evidence of a credible relationship to proceed with issuance of a fiancé visa. The case has been sent back to USCIS for further processing. We no longer have this case here at post, and cannot make any changes to the case. If you decide to marry your fiance and file a new petition with USCIS, you can be assured that that case will receive a thorough review once again."

So we are on their radar it sounds like, even if we do re-petition. We know they are fixated on our age difference, that was the main topic of the Visa interview. We have affidavits from family and friends of our relationship for the 2nd petition, plus checking on attorney in India for interview consult.

Has anyone been successful in overcoming significant age difference in India, where woman is the older one? Or are we wasting our time in this type of petition? We had all the emails, Skypes, phone logs, cards to one another, photos with family, etc. but have only spent short of a month together, although we have started as friends 3 years ago, through our work, then became a couple.

Thank you - just putting it out there.

[Sarah Elle-Même 660]

I think your questions would be best served if this was posted in the Southeast Asia/India subforum. I sent a report to the Moderators to move it for you.

It sounds to me like it wasn't just the age difference that was a red flag for the CO, but also that you didn't spend a lot of time together. Middle East/North Africa Embassies scrutinize age gaps heavily as well. There are people who have overcome denials or refusals, usually by getting married, spending a lot more time together in their husband's home country, producing a lot more evidence of a bonafide relationship, and then trying again with a CR-1 or IR-1 spouse petition.

It might be helpful to get the ball rolling on filing a FOIA request for the consular officer's notes just in case there may be other issues at play you are not aware of that led to the denial. You'll never really know everything that went on with your case, but the more information you can gather, the better you'll be able to prepare for your next move.

Edited February 27, 2013 by Sarah and Adnan

[TimeTravel 78]

Has anyone been successful in overcoming significant age difference in India, where woman is the older one? Or are we wasting our time in this type of petition? We had all the emails, Skypes, phone logs, cards to one another, photos with family, etc. but have only spent short of a month together, although we have started as friends 3 years ago, through our work, then became a couple.

How older when you say " significant age difference "? To overcome such issue, the best advice is that, ask your fiance to move to India and stay with you for good amount of time before attempting to any other visa application.

[Jarun 1]

Thank you for the advice; unfortunately it isn't possible to spend more time in India other than a few weeks every six months or so. Cannot abandon job at this point in time. We will figure something out. Sorry I don't know what FO1A is; the documents have already left the Consulate but do they keep copies of the notes? Our Senator got the same reply.

[Sarah Elle-Même 660]

Thank you for the advice; unfortunately it isn't possible to spend more time in India other than a few weeks every six months or so. Cannot abandon job at this point in time. We will figure something out. Sorry I don't know what FO1A is; the documents have already left the Consulate but do they keep copies of the notes? Our Senator got the same reply.

FOIA - Freedom of Information Act. Yes the consular officers notes are kept in your case file, which has been sent back to USCIS. It may not give you the complete picture of why they denied the visa application but it could be very helpful to you in your next go-around. Here is the USCIS link that explains how to file an FOIA request:

http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.5af9bb95919f35e66f614176543f6d1a/?vgnextchannel=34139c7755cb9010VgnVCM10000045f3d6a1RCRD&vgnextoid=7b21d0676988d010VgnVCM10000048f3d6a1RCRD

[Jarun 1]

FOIA - Freedom of Information Act. Yes the consular officers notes are kept in your case file, which has been sent back to USCIS. It may not give you the complete picture of why they denied the visa application but it could be very helpful to you in your next go-around. Here is the USCIS link that explains how to file an FOIA request:

http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.5af9bb95919f35e66f614176543f6d1a/?vgnextchannel=34139c7755cb9010VgnVCM10000045f3d6a1RCRD&vgnextoid=7b21d0676988d010VgnVCM10000048f3d6a1RCRD

Oh thank you very much - I thought that was a 1 instead of I, haha. Will check this out - appreciate the kind reply.

[Deep2009 18]

My 5 cents -

It looks like they don't believe your relationship for K1 visa.

Instead of doing all what other OPs are telling.... Why don't you get married in India and file CR1 (I-130) for him/her in US.

It will take time but you can save some time instead of running around with different steps.

[Sarah Elle-Même 660]

My 5 cents -

It looks like they don't believe your relationship for K1 visa.

Instead of doing all what other OPs are telling.... Why don't you get married in India and file CR1 (I-130) for him/her in US.

It will take time but you can save some time instead of running around with different steps.

Wrong. Totally wrong. Just simply getting married and turning right around to re-file without trying to get more of the facts straight is a waste of money and downright stupid. There could be other factors that the OP is not aware of or maybe we're not hearing the whole story as they know it. Anyone can get married - doesn't prove you have a legitimate relationship. Plenty of CR-1 visa applications get denied at the "high fraud" Embassies for this exact reason.

Edited February 28, 2013 by Sarah and Adnan

[duraaraa 203]

I think it may be a regional issue as well. From what I have seen, India has an extremely high denial rate for K-1 visas. Apparently, the embassy ran an investigation and found that many of the couples who were granted K-1 visas were not able to be verified as together in the Untied States afterwards. Might I ask what kind of relationship proof you had for the interview? What questions were asked, what answers were given, etc.

It is my worst nightmare for this to happen to me, so you have my sympathy. I truly hope you find a way to resolve this soon.

[Deep2009 18]

The guy from Yemen has no idea about India and US Embassy in India.

My response was on original OP text

"there was insufficient evidence of a credible relationship to proceed with issuance of a fiancé visa. The case has been sent back to USCIS for further processing. We no longer have this case here at post, and cannot make any changes to the case. If you decide to marry your fiance and file a new petition with USCIS"

Trust me... You are free to write the strong worded response.

Please check out other posts for Indian couples (specially for Delhi Embassy denied K1 and getting CR1) and see how many people did what I just mentioned.

[Jarun 1]

The guy from Yemen has no idea about India and US Embassy in India.

My response was on original OP text

"there was insufficient evidence of a credible relationship to proceed with issuance of a fiancé visa. The case has been sent back to USCIS for further processing. We no longer have this case here at post, and cannot make any changes to the case. If you decide to marry your fiance and file a new petition with USCIS"

Trust me... You are free to write the strong worded response.

Please check out other posts for Indian couples (specially for Delhi Embassy denied K1 and getting CR1) and see how many people did what I just mentioned.

Appreciate your honest response, we will check other Indian couples' posts. And yes, that is the exact text from the email received by fiance on his inquiry after submitting 221-G documents requested. We thought we had everything needed, long-time knowing one another, etc. We have discussed getting married in India, too, but will wait a bit, not immediately after the visa refusal. As far as getting the Consular notes as suggested by other member, we already received a response that it isn't part of the FOIA and they cannot provide that type of information. Contacted USCIS who has put in the service request to "try" to get the information - said should hear something by March 15.

Regarding the credible relationship, the one CO who was so opposed to the fiance visa, repeated over and over that it was not possible that we were in love. I won't give all the details, but she was not respectful. Said it was an admiration, not love. Sort of like good cop, bad cop, that we were wasting their time and how dare we even think to apply for a K-1 visa. They did call his parents, to confirm we were engaged. The CO called from a cell phone, no caller ID, and we have a recording of that also for our records. They were not willing to accept us as a couple.

We will keep moving forward and do whatever we need to be together somewhere! We appreciate and welcome good advice. Thank you.

[Jarun 1]

I think it may be a regional issue as well. From what I have seen, India has an extremely high denial rate for K-1 visas. Apparently, the embassy ran an investigation and found that many of the couples who were granted K-1 visas were not able to be verified as together in the Untied States afterwards. Might I ask what kind of relationship proof you had for the interview? What questions were asked, what answers were given, etc.

It is my worst nightmare for this to happen to me, so you have my sympathy. I truly hope you find a way to resolve this soon.

Sure, it may be regional. Our relationship proof consisted of photos together in India, with his parents and friends, phone logs, where we speak at least once a day to one another, emails, Skype chats, screen shots on Skype, the usual stuff, I think.

The interview was conducted by several different people. They had info sent with the petition and asked for more photos. Gave engagement photos and greeting cards received. Asked our ages, if there were children by either of us, their age. Stated 2 doubts: How there will be real love if my fiancee was older and whether we were already married. They asked how we met, what sort of work, etc. then it all focused on how there can be true love between us due to the age difference. They said they could not accept it. Other things were said by COs but too personal to list here. Last officer said needed more phone logs, skypes emails and handed the 221-G. They already had all those, but we complied, sent last 4 months' of them and than received refusal to issue visa.

Most of the people on here get approved, so don't be discouraged by the ones who don't. I wish you all good fortune on your visa journey - it is definitely an interesting trip!

[AKSinghSingh79 143]

Sure, it may be regional. Our relationship proof consisted of photos together in India, with his parents and friends, phone logs, where we speak at least once a day to one another, emails, Skype chats, screen shots on Skype, the usual stuff, I think.

The interview was conducted by several different people. They had info sent with the petition and asked for more photos. Gave engagement photos and greeting cards received. Asked our ages, if there were children by either of us, their age. Stated 2 doubts: How there will be real love if my fiancee was older and whether we were already married. They asked how we met, what sort of work, etc. then it all focused on how there can be true love between us due to the age difference. They said they could not accept it. Other things were said by COs but too personal to list here. Last officer said needed more phone logs, skypes emails and handed the 221-G. They already had all those, but we complied, sent last 4 months' of them and than received refusal to issue visa.

Most of the people on here get approved, so don't be discouraged by the ones who don't. I wish you all good fortune on your visa journey - it is definitely an interesting trip!

Would you mind sharing a few more details?

Are you an inter-racial couple? What is the age gap between the two of you?

Are you of different religious backgrounds?

There are several couples on VJ with spouses from India that have managed to overcome an age difference so don't give up!

Simply getting married and re-filing will not alleviate your troubles but Indian consulates in general do tend to be less harsh on married couples. The Indian consulates are particularly harsh on marital status for K-1 couples. They seem to always be looking for evidence of marriage even when the couple is only engaged. I recommend going the CR-1 route for various reasons. A lot of it has to do with local cultural concerns in India. Do you have full family support from both sides? Does your spouse's family still reside in India?

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

From Consulate 2-22-13: "A review of the case and the circumstances surrounding the application show that the Consular officer and consular staff conducted a thorough interview of the applicant and the case. After the interview, It was determined that there was insufficient evidence of a credible relationship to proceed with issuance of a fiancé visa. The case has been sent back to USCIS for further processing. We no longer have this case here at post, and cannot make any changes to the case. If you decide to marry your fiance and file a new petition with USCIS, you can be assured that that case will receive a thorough review once again."

So we are on their radar it sounds like, even if we do re-petition. We know they are fixated on our age difference, that was the main topic of the Visa interview. We have affidavits from family and friends of our relationship for the 2nd petition, plus checking on attorney in India for interview consult.

Has anyone been successful in overcoming significant age difference in India, where woman is the older one? Or are we wasting our time in this type of petition? We had all the emails, Skypes, phone logs, cards to one another, photos with family, etc. but have only spent short of a month together, although we have started as friends 3 years ago, through our work, then became a couple.

Thank you - just putting it out there.

Of course they have. Just provide evidence to overcome the impression. Filing another petition would actually help. If it were not genuine you would not do that. If this were fraud your fiance would seek another person to petition him, not you.

I do NOT suggest getting married. If a spousal visa is denied you are STILL married.

[NigeriaorBust 4,087]

We did a K1 the second time and were approved. Second petitions in general have a higher success rate so there is no magic to getting married.