Denied K-1 in Egypt

[Lillen Faith 5]

In MENA countries that's a big problem, when the female is older, especially if she's outside child bearing age. Cultural practices.

Great point. If you appeal without addressing the issues I pointed out, you will lose.

ohh okay. Would be hard then in this case.

Edited February 25, 2013 by Lillen Faith

[NY_BX 397]

I have never sent him money and he has never asked for any. I was hoping they would tell him(he sent an email) requesting the reason for his denial so we can see what code they placed it under. As I said before, The Consular just said he felt (Amr) knew me when he was still married and could not grant the visa.

I am just asking for advice...If anyone has had a similar situation whether it is best to wait the 3 months to have USCIS to inform the reason for denial and find out if they will allow it to be appeal or would it be better to go and marry(forget about the wedding plans here)use the money to start a spousal visa.

The Consular,s decision I am sure was made before Amr was at the window. He was 2nd there and they called everyone and waited until no one was left to call him to be interviewed.

If you get married WITHOUT knowing exactly why you were denied, you will encounter the same problems. A mess up in dates is not an excuse, something else is going on. Unless there was a typo on your documentation where it shows 2010 instead of 2011. You could verify that in your copies. If that was the case, do not appeal as it will be upheld- meaning they didn't make the mistake. If your paperwork was correct, then that wasn't it. I'm not saying that's impossible, however.

For us to help you and give you better advice, I think you'll need to ask him to write down EVERYTHING that happened during the interview. And I mean everything. DO not leave any holes in the story. That way we can zero in on the true reason and then you can make practical decisions based on reality.

Edited February 25, 2013 by NY_BX

[sweetlymystic 19]

My fiancee received this email from the Consular...where he had requested the reason for denial..This is what they sent back:

Kindly note that your case was not denied, the case will be sent back to US Citizenship and Immigration Services where it was initially filed for review and re-adjudication. USCIS will review the case and will provide you with a final decision

So...still not sure of where we stand at the moment--But it is making it clear it is not denied,right??

[N-o-l-a 7,168]

It is basically denied. Even when we clearly told them we were no longer eligible for the K1 because we got married they just sent the petition back to VSC and kept it open. They almost never deny the I-129F, they just let them sit.

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

My fiancee received this email from the Consular...where he had requested the reason for denial..This is what they sent back:

Kindly note that your case was not denied, the case will be sent back to US Citizenship and Immigration Services where it was initially filed for review and re-adjudication. USCIS will review the case and will provide you with a final decision

So...still not sure of where we stand at the moment--But it is making it clear it is not denied,right??

What Nola123 said. Also you'll want to read up on this thread that's pinned in the MENA forums about what to do when a petition is returned. Link

Edited February 25, 2013 by Dr. A ♥ O

[NY_BX 397]

My fiancee received this email from the Consular...where he had requested the reason for denial..This is what they sent back:

Kindly note that your case was not denied, the case will be sent back to US Citizenship and Immigration Services where it was initially filed for review and re-adjudication. USCIS will review the case and will provide you with a final decision

So...still not sure of where we stand at the moment--But it is making it clear it is not denied,right??

It is technically a denial. What they do is hold on to it until it expires. Does he has his passport?

Edited February 25, 2013 by NY_BX

[Villanelle 4,122]

Youre giving really spotty info.

So you werent denied. You were sent back to be reaffirmed. The best info you have on why is because they felt he knew you while he was married.

The best educated guess is to be eligible for the K1 there are conditions. You both have to be free to marry, met with in two years etc. But theres also fine print about- like you couldnt have sent your 129F in before he was divorced to get a head start.

So if hes divorced Jan 1 2010 the soonest you could file the 129F is Jan 2 2010. Anything sooner and its void.

The CO is sending you back because he suspects that they approved your 129F and sent you for the interview in error. Hes sending it back so they can look it over again and check the dates/evidence and make sure.

Everything posted before remains the same. You are back to the starting line. But its a different starting line. Youre in a different pile- the reaffirmation pile. You can search for posts about it. Experiences vary. Some people do get reaffirmed and sent back in a timely fashion but the odds are not on your side. They tend to get ignored. Youre on the bottom of the workload totem pole.

So if you are sure theres nothing wrong with your petition and it will be reaffirmed then its your choice if you want to wait out the reaffirmation process or refile and start fresh.

No one has a crystal ball to tell you which is going to be quicker. Theres nothing you can do to speed up the reaffirmation process or speed up the refiling process.

[sweetlymystic 19]

CAPRI:In am not asking for a way to speed up the process...I was simply asking for opinions(advice) of anyone who may have been thru this process before.

I appreciate all of the advice I have received from so many here (and in the past) very much and just looking for the same now.

NY_BX: they did not keep his passport

Edited February 25, 2013 by sweetlymystic

[NY_BX 397]

CAPRI:In am not asking for a way to speed up the process...I was simply asking for opinions(advice) of anyone who may have been thru this process before.

I appreciate all of the advice I have received from so many here (and in the past) very much and just looking for the same now.

NY_BX: they did not keep his passport

Ok, that's a sign of a denial. What capri said is correct. They think you met while he was married, then you petitioned him in the middle of a divorced, making the petition invalid. Again, the only way for us to help you is basically for you to tell EXACTLY what happened word-by-word, minute- by- minute. I went to the interview with him, so I can tell you how they behave.

You're giving spotty accounts. First you said they didn't even look at the evidence, but later on says they looked at pictures. It is confusing.

[sweetlymystic 19]

He asked him if he had any pictures other than the ones the Consular had...He handed them to the consular(pictures of me with his family celebrating my birthday) he looked at them ..handed them back and still said "no visa"

Amr divorced March 1 ,2010 ----------We met online March 5,2011(ONE YEAR LATER)--------I went to Egypt October 8,2011 for 8 days(in which time we became engaged)

I filed the petition I-129F on February 11,2012

All these dates lined out in the petition(So I do not see where he can get we knew each other)

Edited February 26, 2013 by sweetlymystic

[NY_BX 397]

He asked him if he had any pictures other than the ones the Consular had...He handed them to the consular(pictures of me with his family celebrating my birthday) he looked at them ..handed them back and still said "no visa"

Amr divorced March 1 ,2010 ----------We met online March 5,2011(ONE YEAR LATER)--------I went to Egypt October 8,2011 for 8 days(in which time we became engaged)

I filed the petition I-129F on February 11,2012

All these dates lined out in the petition(So I do not see where he can get we knew each other)

Did you verify all the paperwork you sent? Do you have copies? Check because maybe, only maybe, there's a typo. If there is, then that's the issue. If there isn't, it is something else.

Where is his ex-wife from? Had someone petitioned him in the past? Does he have family in the US? Did he show a divorce decree?

I'm with you on this: I find it incredibly hard to believe they will pull out an obvious lie as a reason to deny. Something happened, something ELSE was said- I'm afraid. Not implying anything, but something crucial is missing. I've been trying to have you give every detail so we can help you.

Sorry, but at this point the advice I can give you is to wait. If you go and marry without addressing the issues, he will be denied.

I don't know what else to say.

[sweetlymystic 19]

I double checked everything I sent(I thought the same that possibly I had put the wrong years) but no they are all correct. Yes, he has a brother who lives in Texas and has been here since 2008 took his oath of citizenship 2 months ago. His ex is from Kentucky but no contact between them. They were only married for 16 days --Consular asked him how they met...he told him he met her on FB they talked for 3 months , she flew out to him, they married and before she left they mutually decided they did not feel the same for each other and divorced before she left.So they were only married 16 days.

His divorce decree -- was all included in the package 3 Consular had. He has never been petitioned by anyone before.

Thank you for your advice..and I believe the same I will need to wait.At least then I will know the next step after I receive something from USCIS.

I believe it will be best to plan to see my fiance soon...

Edited February 26, 2013 by sweetlymystic

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

Now that I know more about your case I understand what happened better. Did you read the returned petitions thread pinned in MENA? You don't have to start at the beginning of the thread that goes back to 2006. Start from the last page and work backwards because that's going to have the more current stuff. For your case I'd suggest starting with this post in the thread, Link, and then read from there. It addresses a few things that relate to your case.

Here's what I gather from your case. The CO said in so many words that from their experience they don't believe your fiance's story thus implying he's a fraud, or that they don't believe your relationship is valid, or both. It doesn't matter the reason. They use visa denial/returns as a way to weed out fraudulent activity without any actual evidence. If they say denied then they have evidence if they say returned they don't have evidence and that means you'll have to go back to square one and have a longer wait ahead of you which you'll need to provide an ongoing relationship and build further evidence.

Here is what the CO possibly sees as your red flags besides Egypt being a high fraud country.

-On here I've seen that K1 visas aren't denied often from Egypt, but when they are it involved a considerable age difference and very few actual face to face visits that lasted for a short period of time. For example one prior visit that lasted less than two weeks.

-Considerable age difference for this region by MENA standards is a woman 5+ years older than their Significant Other. Not that they don't marry older women it's just not the norm to marry someone 5 + years older than them. That would be the rare exception. However you'll find on VJ that in international marriages like ours between women from the US and men from the MENA region it's more common.

-Also your fiance has a prior marriage to a woman from Kentucky that lasted for 16 days and while there was no petition for immigration his brother has immigrated the the United States. These together can be seen as evidence of potential marriage for immigration. The short marriage to a foreigner from the same country as you and the brother in the States could signify to the CO that your fiance has been on the hunt since his first marriage in order to get to the States and any woman will do. He's already got a brother here so he's got some place to go when it doesn't work out.

-You have 4 kids which is also not the norm for a MENA marriage and you're approaching the years that are outside child bearing years while he is going into his prime family rearing years. The CO is possibly considering these aspects of what the man is getting into, how he'll adapt, how your kids will adapt and the longevity of those dynamics. I've seen marriages just like yours on here many times over where the woman is considerably older with 3-4 kids and the man gets the visa and comes he. Then he has difficulty adjusting not only to the country, but also the western lifestyle, and his new family role, and the marriage dissolves within the first few years sometimes first few months because the individuals may or may not love each other, or they were really just in different places in their lives. If your fiance is willing to take marriage lightly the first time and say it didn't work after 16 days what are the chances that his marriage to you with everything else on top of it will last 5 + years here?

I'm not saying all this to be mean or harsh but rather to help with the perspective of where the CO is coming from. In the K1 cases like yours that I have seen on here some were made to wait in AP/AR for over a year for their approval. Due to their financial circumstances they weren't able to make more trips to be together but they remained true to each other and eventually it worked out but not without a very long period of suffering from the wait. Often times in these waits they're used as a way to dissolved or weed out relationship that wouldn't otherwise have worked out without any real explanation except that it's pending AP/AR. It's know as the black hole for a reason. They don't give out any information and one can speculation and scrutinize all they want but worry is a waste of time.

Most often what I see happen besides one or the other ending the relationship in due course is that the K1 petition is expired and you can reapply. If you want to speed the process along you can cut your losses and always send in a notarized document saying you wish to cancel your K1 petition and go another direction, or you can wait on them and see what they do. You're choice. Once that's done you can start another petition such as a spouse based one which is the other alternative.

It won't save you time or money. You'll still have to get back in line with all the other petitions and you'll still have to spend the money like all the rest. It depends on how much you're willing to invest of yourself into this and how much you want to be together. Usually from what I've seen after a few more visits, a marriage, and applying for a spouse visa then it gets approved. There is only one case I've ever seen go through Egypt on here that started as a K1 that was denied, that turned into a spouse visa and then they had a child together. Even after all that they still would not approve him to come to the US. After several years of battling the immigration process and living together over in Egypt I they finally gave up.

They never did get any explanation for why and she went through hell exhausting all the resources. The truth of the matter is they're the federal government and for reasons of national security they don't have to tell you x,y or z. You can file FOIA and do all that but that takes time and money and they can still omit pertinent information. After some time you just have to read between the lines.

Oh and I nearly forgot. The other option is packing up and moving to Egypt for love. Not sure where you stand with that because of having four kids and the custody arraignment, or if they're of age, or how far you're willing to be away from them, or moving them to Egypt, ect... Also given the periodic unrest in Egypt since the start of the revolution it's not really ideal. But maybe you have family there, or have history there, or know the language, or have kids with a prior MENA man. I don't really know all that situation but I think if you did the CO would have looked at your case and considered that as well.

Edited February 26, 2013 by Dr. A ♥ O

[Cathi 5,783]

My husband is from Jordan and we had just about identical red flags(he has been here in the US since October).I didn't find visa journey until after NOA2, so I wasn't even aware we had so called red flags when we filed the I-130. I front loaded his petition with very little evidence. As someone who doesn't know anyone who has been through the immigration process, I never gave the red flags a second thought,other than having originally having met online(come to find out that was the least of our red flags). Our red flags were: Age difference, I am 21 years older, I am Catholic, he Muslim. We met online, married the first visit(in Islam there is no dating before marriage, so marrying on that visit was considered normal in his culture) my husband has a brother in Texas as well(Houston), I am divorced with 2 children, BUT I was still married when I met my now husband, legally separated from my ex. I did spend much more time with my husband before his interview though. My first visit, I spent 6 weeks there, returned 6 weeks later for a month, returned 7 weeks later for 2 weeks, and once again returned 5 weeks later for his interview and stayed another month. So I spent a little more than 4 months out of 8(half) with him between the time we were married and the date of his interview. I attended the interview and I was questioned along with my husband, we brought additional evidence that the CO never asked to see. We had bigger red flags than you and my husband was approved. I can;t help but think that spending a considerable amount of face time in Jordan with him worked in our favor. We missed each other and wanted to spend as much time as we could together.

As others have stated that no matter the direction you choose, you need to find out the exact reason for the denial before you apply for another K-1 or jump into marriage and file a CR1, you need to overcome the red flags. You also need to spend time with him in real life, one trip for 8 days is such a short amount of time if you expect to be successful for an approval. It is sad that you were denied, but you need to look at things through the eyes of the CO, one meeting for 8 days in addition to everything else, was a recipe for disaster in a MENA country. I wish you the best and keep us updated

[NY_BX 397]

I double checked everything I sent(I thought the same that possibly I had put the wrong years) but no they are all correct. Yes, he has a brother who lives in Texas and has been here since 2008 took his oath of citizenship 2 months ago. His ex is from Kentucky but no contact between them. They were only married for 16 days --Consular asked him how they met...he told him he met her on FB they talked for 3 months , she flew out to him, they married and before she left they mutually decided they did not feel the same for each other and divorced before she left.So they were only married 16 days.

His divorce decree -- was all included in the package 3 Consular had. He has never been petitioned by anyone before.

Thank you for your advice..and I believe the same I will need to wait.At least then I will know the next step after I receive something from USCIS.

I believe it will be best to plan to see my fiance soon...

Ok, see? You missed the most crucial point: he married an American. He clearly (to the CO) looks like he's hunting for wives to get out. That's why the CO brought her up. Dr. AO detailed everything and every issue you may have.