The systematic extermination of Hazaras (Taliban-led genocide of a Shia ethnic minority in Pakistan)

[james&olya 1,121]

Who cares what the purported targets of drones are said to be, when 4 year olds keep getting blown to bits regardless of never being the damn target? Why would it be any different with Hazara Shias? A key piece in getting approval for this ####### has been citing the horrid oppression inflicted on ordinary people by murderous, extremist thugs. But yet ordinary people keep getting killed by the same people who keep saying they're doing them a favor. Dead 4 year olds are dead 4 year olds, regardless of being officially not a target. That's true of kids in AfPak, true of kids in America, and true of kids anywhere else in the world. Australia's assistance carries no such risk. We can't say the same.

So what are the options available to other world governments and organizations? Soldiers with weapons on the ground just become additional targets themselves and tend to escalate the tension and killings. Civilian aid workers get taken hostage as well. Statements of condemnation are made but who even pays attention anymore? Offering refuge to targets of ethnic genocide may help some initially but is obviously limited in how much it can be applied to the numerous places on the planet where ethnic cleansing is attempted. Sometimes force must be met by force and targeted drone strikes, while horrible considered by themselves, might be one of the least horrible options available. How do you suggest this be solved?

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

The use of drones for so-called "targeted killings" has harmed US interests far more than benefiting them. They terrorize entire populations, kill a shocking number of civilians including children who have no way of defending themselves, and the lack of accountability or legal parameters sets dangerous precedents. Using drones encourages other governments to use them, too - even against US citizens.

In the United States, the dominant narrative about the use of drones in Pakistan is of a surgically precise and effective tool that makes the US safer by enabling “targeted killing” of terrorists, with minimal downsides or collateral impacts.[1]

This narrative is false.

Following nine months of intensive research—including two investigations in Pakistan, more than 130 interviews with victims, witnesses, and experts, and review of thousands of pages of documentation and media reporting—this report presents evidence of the damaging and counterproductive effects of current US drone strike policies. Based on extensive interviews with Pakistanis living in the regions directly affected, as well as humanitarian and medical workers, this report provides new and firsthand testimony about the negative impacts US policies are having on the civilians living under drones.

Real threats to US security and to Pakistani civilians exist in the Pakistani border areas now targeted by drones. It is crucial that the US be able to protect itself from terrorist threats, and that the great harm caused by terrorists to Pakistani civilians be addressed. However, in light of significant evidence of harmful impacts to Pakistani civilians and to US interests, current policies to address terrorism through targeted killings and drone strikes must be carefully re-evaluated.

http://livingunderdrones.org/

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Who cares what the purported targets of drones are said to be, when 4 year olds keep getting blown to bits regardless of never being the damn target? Why would it be any different with Hazara Shias? A key piece in getting approval for this ####### has been citing the horrid oppression inflicted on ordinary people by murderous, extremist thugs. But yet ordinary people keep getting killed by the same people who keep saying they're doing them a favor. Dead 4 year olds are dead 4 year olds, regardless of being officially not a target. That's true of kids in AfPak, true of kids in America, and true of kids anywhere else in the world. Australia's assistance carries no such risk. We can't say the same.

Australia's humanitarian action has absolutely NOTHING to do with drones. Not a thing. Why is that so hard to understand?

[Caryh 5,206]

Interesting that the blame for muslims killung muslims gets shifted to US drone attacks on the terrorist muslims killing other muslims. OK so let's follow the solution proposed of moving these victims out to the west. First its 2500 families but how many more families will need to be moved when the terrorists attack the next neighborhood? And when that million or more people have been moved, what's the next minority Muslim group will we need to move? Do they even want to move? Or will they also start driving water trucks full of explosives into the majority populations communities? Or maybe just start launching unguided missiles or placing IEDs in those neighborhoods?

[ready4ONE 5,400]

It's simply amazing to see the attempts to argue drone attacks are the problem while trying and failing to discuss the unavoidable pesky detail of deliberate Muslim on Muslim violence. The key difference being deliberate.

Fertilizer bomb trucks deliberately driven and blown up where children are, with deliberate intent to kill and maim said children is hardly in the same morally reprehensible category as drone strikes hitting the wrong target or accidentally killing both the intended recipient and those around them, and is virtually unrelated to the topic at hand yet the dissembling goes on and on.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

It's simply amazing to see the attempts to argue drone attacks are the problem while trying and failing to discuss the unavoidable pesky detail of deliberate Muslim on Muslim violence. The key difference being deliberate.

Fertilizer bomb trucks deliberately driven and blown up where children are, with deliberate intent to kill and maim said children is hardly in the same morally reprehensible category as drone strikes hitting the wrong target or accidentally killing both the intended recipient and those around them, and is virtually unrelated to the topic at hand yet the dissembling goes on and on.

What's not amazing, but all too predictable, is you pushing the same old memes:

#1.) If anyone makes any criticism of US foreign policy in Muslim countries, then they're avoiding a much more important subject: criticizing Muslims.

#2) That "Muslim on Muslim violence" is somehow worse than anything and everything else on the planet, including any number of US drone strikes slaughtering countless numbers of the wrong people.

#3.) It's ok for us to ** up because we're so much better than they are.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

You're stuck in your own personal memes there wife.

1) American foreign policy is not the issue at hand in the OP.

2) Muslims driving bomb trucks deliberately into an area filled with children, deliberately and with malicious intention to kill and maim them is roughly as bad as anything anyone can do. I defy anyone to come up with a worse or more despicable action. And the children deliberately targeted were Muslims. Morally indefensible.

3) It's not OK to #### up, however it is also not a deliberate act like the one outlined in the OP.

Spare us all your self righteous piety and admit the obvious.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

You're stuck in your own personal memes there wife.

1) American foreign policy is not the issue at hand in the OP.

2) Muslims driving bomb trucks deliberately into an area filled with children, deliberately and with malicious intention to kill and maim them is roughly as bad as anything anyone can do. I defy anyone to come up with a worse or more despicable action. And the children deliberately targeted were Muslims. Morally indefensible.

3) It's not OK to #### up, however it is also not a deliberate act like the one outlined in the OP.

Spare us all your self righteous piety and admit the obvious.

#1.) I was specifically responding to posts in this very thread about drones - do you need me to quote them for you ? I didn't bring up the subject, but I had a comment on it. It's too bad if you don't like it.

#2.) The killing of children, either by militant groups or by state military forces - no matter who does it or why they claim they do it or whatever excuses they have about collateral damage - is all equivalent in evilness; no matter if they kill by car bomb or by drone or by cluster bombs or by depleted uranium; the only tangible difference is the numbers dead. And the US would be one of the major state actors in the killing of children over the past several decades.

#3.) The excuse "we didn't mean to do it" is absurd; the deaths of civilians by drones matters so little to the US government that it doesn't even bother to account for its "mistakes," nor count the casualties.

So you can spare me your own smug self-righteousness and just admit the obvious: the deaths of Muslims at the hands of Western forces - no matter if the victims are babies or other innocent civilians - just doesn't bother you. Somehow, they all deserve it.

[sandinista! 1,816]

This is about a group of people being systematically slaughtered, in a region of the world where numerous groups of people are being horrifically oppressed and slaughtered by murdering thugs. So long as there are drones there, they will always be a part of the conversation when discussing what to do or not do there. Australia is providing asylum for 2500 Hazara families. Mercy Corps, who I support financially to the best of my abilities, has numerous programs in place in the region. According to them, "Helping Afghans earn a sustainable, legitimate living is key to helping this country emerge from decades of conflict, instability and chaos." Australia's assistance is coming from their government, Mercy Corps is an NGO. Then compare that to what the US has brought to the table. More blood, more maiming, more death and horror. It's like telling a battered woman you're going to help her but you have to beat her too in order to do so. Surely your assault on her is different, because your intent is to help?

That kind of cognitive dissonance is sociopathic.

This is a link to the MC website, detailing their programs in Afghanistan. None of which involve any bombing. http://www.mercycorps.org/countries/afghanistan

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

This is about a group of people being systematically slaughtered, in a region of the world where numerous groups of people are being horrifically oppressed and slaughtered by murdering thugs. So long as there are drones there, they will always be a part of the conversation when discussing what to do or not do there. Australia is providing asylum for 2500 Hazara families.

Yes, they are. But you should disabuse yourself of the illusion that Australia is all angels when it comes to deploying drones.

A senior Australian Defence Force officer has revealed details of how the Royal Australian Air Force deploys Israeli-owned drones for battlefield surveillance and to target anti-government Islamic fighters in Afghanistan.

...

They are the centrepiece of the ADF's rapidly expanding drone warfare capability that has so far cost an estimated $550 million.

In other news, Australia moves to buy $3b spy drone fleet.

And let's not forget the large numbers of refugees the US accommodates each and every year - close to 100,000. Now what?

[ready4ONE 5,400]

####### happens in armed conflicts. If the VJ resident anti-US contingent wants us all to believe that the world would be a magical land of sugarlpums and peace if only Israel and the USA could see the beauty of Islamic Radicalism and its peaceful intentions, and just allow them to kill whomever they want, because after all these people are only doing what they do because Israel and the USA are so awful, I have some nice bridges for sale.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

####### happens in armed conflicts. If the VJ resident anti-US contingent wants us all to believe that the world would be a magical land of sugarlpums and peace if only Israel and the USA could see the beauty of Islamic Radicalism and its peaceful intentions, and just allow them to kill whomever they want, because after all these people are only doing what they do because Israel and the USA are so awful, I have some nice bridges for sale.

Wow. So in sum, your argument has boiled down to these key points:

We rock

They suck

You suck

Everything sucks

Thanks for the textbook example.

http://jewssansfrontieres.blogspot.com/2008/07/how-to-make-case-for-israel-and-win.html

[ready4ONE 5,400]

The Muslim terrorists in the OP suck.

The drone deflection argument sucks as either a justification of the bombing in the OP which was an amazing thing to be proffered, or as anything even remotely as reprehensible as the bombing in the OP.

You seem to be an intelligent person but you can't seem to see the transparent holes in your one sided comments. Not the least of which is the total lack of acknowledgement of who are the intended targets for drone strikes, and why there's a reason for drone strikes in the first place.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

The Muslim terrorists in the OP suck.

The drone deflection argument sucks as either a justification of the bombing in the OP which was an amazing thing to be proffered, or as anything even remotely as reprehensible as the bombing in the OP.

You seem to be an intelligent person but you can't seem to see the transparent holes in your one sided comments. Not the least of which is the total lack of acknowledgement of who are the intended targets for drone strikes, and why there's a reason for drone strikes in the first place.

What are you babbling about ? I responded to comments about drones in this thread. I haven't made any justifications for any bombings by anyone; I'm against bombings. I'm against children and other innocent civilians being killed, I'm against extra-judicial assassinations, and I'm especially sickened when it's my own country doing these things.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

Sandi commented on the drones and then opined something to the effect that the drones were in some manner the reason for Radical Islamic terrorists doing the voodoo that they do so well.

Australia is not offering asylum to protect the victims of drone strikes. No victims of drone strikes were in the OP.