Some advice

[kristen_maroc 126]

I read this out loud to my husband. He told me I should respond. I asked him what I should say; he said "Tell her that I feel the same way as her husband. The one thing that helped was when I started school."

He has some credits from Italy, but is really starting over at a community college and will try to transfer in a year or so from now into a 4-year institution. He wants to do computer science, and when he got his first job-- working at a Lebanese deli really close to a college campus known for its engineering program-- it helped his motivation a lot. He kept talking to college kids who he saw as being pretty... dumb. Not knowing how to do things at work. Not picking up on things. Not knowing how to jump in, or even to do math to give back change. Not being able to diffuse a situation. He wondered how these "kids" could be getting a degree in pre-med or pre-law or engineering when they aren't quick learners.

So he's gone from thinking he couldn't do it to thinking he can do it. Our goal is for him to transfer ASAP and hopefully get a co-op position: every other semester, he'd be bringing in money; then able to focus on academics without worrying about work...

We're with you in a lot of ways. It's hard... but it's worth it. It's gotten better for him with time.

[tany1157 161]

Thank you, thank you, thank you for all the advice and support. It is comforting to speak with people who actually understand what I'm going through. We currently live with my parents, so moving is a must. I will def look into the courses, and thinking I will leave him no choice with drivers ed No matter how much love is between us, "life" is now in the way, so to speak. Now we are in a "real" relationship....( you guys hopefully know what I mean) At the end of the day, I love knowing he's with me, and the cuddles certainly help We will get through it. They're still many rewards to being in a multi-cultural relationship, but challenging to say the least. You all have been so helpful...and yes, we knew logically that adjusting would be harder than immigration, but you don't really "know" until you are in the throws of a frustrating battle that you feel you might not win. You def need more than love to get through it

[Mithra 1,185]

Oh well if you're living with your folks then yeah you should move. That can't be making things easier. The two of us lived with my folks for a couple months while in the process of buying our house and it sucked!

[marie_yahya 11]

My husband and I are happy to be together, and we enjoy sharing our physical lives together. However, my husband is not crazy about America. He has been working full time for 4 months now, an overnight shift. We are currently looking for a new place to live. He feels discouraged. The way we spend and live in this country makes him feel like he can't get anywhere. He doesn't want to have to go into debt to own anything. He won't do it. He's a city boy, and we live in a suburb. We will move to the city, which will make things a little better for him. Teaching him to drive has been a daunting task, and is taking longer than expected. I could go on and on, but I know others here who have already been through the initial adjustment stage will hopefully understand what I'm trying to explain.

I feel badly for him. I've incorporated his foods in our home, and he cooks as well sometimes. We enjoy being together ( thankfully we have the same days off ) I don't know what to do or say to help him. He is trying to figure things out himself, which is great, but he has this yearning for all of us to go back to Morocco together. He knows that isn't possible, but he actually told me he has no clue about his life right now. He says the only thing he knows is that we have a future together, but how will we live??? he doesn't know. His grand mom is getting sick a lot, and I think he has realized that if something were to happen, he wouldn't be able to just go whenever and stay as long as he needed without money, and without losing his job and starting over when he gets back. He is disappointed at how superficial life seems to be here, and how expensive everything is. I told him that I tried to tell him this before he got here, but he admitted that he didn't "get" it until he lived here.

My husband isn't a complainer. I pretty much had to dig this conversation out of him. I'm not stupid, I know he is homesick. I know he is scared for his family back home. I know he is scared for our future. I know we have dreams that seem impossible right now. I would just like some insight on others who had spouses that didn't like the country they came to, and how things got better. He would love to study, but he is so disappointed at the expense. We know there are grants available, but he would still need student loans. I have told him that no matter how much I love him, that if he hated it here so much that he couldn't live a happy life, I would want him to go home. It is like I feel guilty that he lives where he doesn't want to just to be with me. Has anyone else felt this way? He won't complain to me, but I see the worry in his face. He isn't sleeping well at all. I know it will get better, but he says he has almost been here a year, and he feels like he has done nothing. I think he is being really hard on himself.... What do you all think of this? Thank you guys for the help

hey tany i sent you a private message go look have a great day

[Cathi 5,771]

Tany you can always ship him over to my house to watch the soccer games with Moath...God knows Moath is dying to have someone to watch the games with. I watch the games with him, but it is not the same as watching them with "the guys". Moath has had his licence since November, so he can always come and pick your husband up. I know Moath really misses his friends and he could really use a guy friend. He has started working but he hasn't found anyone to hang out with, I feel bad for him too. Call me if you need me, I am always here. Even if you want to get out and talk, we can get together too.

Edited March 2, 2013 by mimolicious

[Cathi 5,771]

And just to add, Moath wouldn't mind in the least taking your husband out to drive. It will get your husband some practice, and it would get them both out of the house for some guy time .Let me know

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

Just seeing this thread. Tany it sounds like the typical initial culture shock and adjustment period. We went through it as well. Before my husband came to the States I knew from reading on here that it was going to last 2-3 years of him adjusting and that it would be challenging our relationship in a different way and what I learned about it had been about right for us. Currently he's coming up on his third year here in a month. In the first two years he displayed all the classic symptoms of culture shock even though he denied it. There are threads posted on here in this forum specifically addressing culture shock and what the symptoms are and what to look for but you can also Google it.

Like most he also needed his DL, a job, a social group and to find his own way while struggling with the homesickness. I tried getting him to take driver's lessons but he insisted we didn't have the money and that I should teach him but he kept putting me off for some time and I was hesitant myself about taking on that responsibility even though it would make him feel the most comfortable. So in the meantime I shuttled him from our city that we lived in which didn't have an Islamic Center to the bigger city that did have an Islamic center for his Friday prayers. This was so he could continue practicing his faith around others like him and build a social group stateside. We also got him a cell phone so he could feel more independent and keep in touch with his local friends and his friends and family back home if something happened. He did want to work but there wasn't much work to be had in our area because of the economy being weak from the crash. So we agreed the best use of his time would be studying for and passing the United States Medical License Examinations while I went out to find work. We also had to live with my Mom in her house after he first arrived. That was good for us in that he was around people all the time because my Uncle also stayed with us, and my Grandma was four miles away, and my brother and his family was close as well, plus all my friends and extended family lived in the area and had heard about and sort of knew my husband. They all got to know him pretty well and he got to live in similar circumstances to his own culture where the family lives close together or in the same area. Plus we got to live in a big beautiful house in a quiet, safe, pleasant area. I think it helped that we had an idea of what he was going to do here and that was attempt to continue being a doctor. It was just a matter of getting down to business and doing it which is no easy task. It's one thing to immigrate and adapt to a new society and way of living, but it's another thing to attempt to become a doctor in the states. In a lot of ways the process of becoming a doctor here for a foreign born medical graduate reminds us a lot of what it's like to go through the immigration process and we're still feeling the PTSD from that.

When he first arrived he spent the first six months inside our house on the internet and studying for the medical exam. I tried to get him out and go to events, and he would go on occasion, but mostly he wanted to stay home, which isolation is a sign of culture shock. Fortunately his Sister and BIL and their kids lived in Baltimore and we were able to send him back east for a seven week stay with them. He was able to get some exposure to the American medical system through them. This was their second time in the States for education purposes and they had a prior stay of 2 years. This acted as a bridge for him during this transition period. He was able to be around his familiars who had already in a way done what he's doing and he was able to do a medical observership back East though their contacts. That gave him some independence, networking and insight into what he needed to do from other doctors like him that he was able to meet back east and that had gone through the process already.

He came back home that Christmas and after that trip he was more determined and focused on passing the USMLE Steps and knew what he needed to do in what order. Then just a month later the Egyptian revolution started Jan 25th, 2011, on his birthday of all days. Surprise! It was a big distraction for him. For several weeks no studying was getting done because his homeland was going through a great change and he wanted to be part of it since he knew he couldn't be there. It was like having a restless cat inside the house that wanted to get out but couldn't. Obviously he couldn't go back to Egypt because of our financial circumstances and I certainly didn't want him going back then and getting in the middle of that mess when people were dying in the protests and it was an unpredictable situation of chaos. Fortunately the internet provided that outlet but it was like the Egyptian revolution was happening 24 hours in our upstairs office. He was on Skype or yahoo or facebook to his Egyptian friends all over the world talking about all the news coming out of Egypt. He's still using skype, yahoo or facebook to stay in touch with friends and family around the world.

When Mubarak stepped down life went on and somewhat returned to stability and routine here. We continued Friday prayer rituals, he'd made friends but remained homesick. His first Ramadan in the States away from his country and his family was difficult. I also tried the making it feel more like home for his holiday by buying Ramadan lamps, and making Egyptian food, and decorating the place and having his friends over. Finally he said all this wasn't helping him but rather it was making his homesickness worse because the reminders of home only made him more homesick. So he encouraged me to make American food and do things like I normally would. That was the complete opposite of the reaction I'd expected but alright I went with it.

Eventually it came time for us to move out of my parents home. This was probably the best thing for our relationship but also not the easiest starting out together on our own. I transferred with my company to a city we'd never lived in, in a State I hadn't been to but maybe one other time. It's beautiful here, absolutely gorgeous, but it was difficult for me as well adjusting to a new schedule and a new environment. We also picked this place because this State has learning hospitals and our other State didn't. Before we moved here I suggested he reach out to the local Islamic center and when he did a Doctor from Libya with his the same name as my husband responded back and that was like a sign to us. He let us know there were at least five international medical graduates from the same region that attended the Islamic center and had been through the same process that he was attempting to do, and they were all attending doctors here. So my husband was going to be able to have these contacts and have them as his mentors. We took the leap of faith and moved together and it was for the best really.

Our first place we lived was a temporary situation in this basement apartment of the house of a retire teacher who I found of the local university's student housing website. We shared one room with a kitchenette and our bathroom was down the hall. It was freezing cold, smelled like pee, and was infested with spiders. I saw maybe seven different spiders a day crawling around our room. If someone had told me about the spiders here that would have been a deal breaker but now I've had to make friends with the spiders because they come with the trees and we live in a rain forest. I'd wished I'd know that trees come with spiders. I knew about bugs in the woods but this amount of spiders, really? They are the most noticeable in August and September here. It's difficult to walk outside without seeing their webs and walk into one of them.

That basement apartment situation was our personal hell we shared together. During Ramadan was the worst time living there. I worked an early morning shift at the TV station so I had to go to bed early but he had to break his fast after I went to bed. With no divider or walls to separate the sleeping space from the kitchenette it was like living in a studio apartment and I heard all the pots, pans, dishes and cupboards banging and waking me up. I didn't sleep much before I had to go to work. He also studies the best at night. We're both night owls which is one more thing we share in common. So he'd keep his reading lamp on and I'd keep a sleeping mask over my eyes.

He was able to get his first full-time job working at a nursing home passing out medication and making more than me as a journalist at a television station with a four year degree from the States. The nursing home recognized he was a foreign doctor and his medical degree and experience so they made him more than a nursing aid but less than a nurse because he hadn't passed the medical exams in the States yet, but even the nurses recognized his knowledge and experience was more than theirs. It was a nice fit and he loved making money and being able to provide for us. It was the first time we got a taste of a dual income household and as the MENA male he said it was his duty to pay the bills so he took over that and let me have my own money for myself. I must say that was a really nice feeling for me. He bought a bicycle to go to and from work because the hours were sometimes outside the bus route systems availability but he got into sweet shape riding his bicycle and I could tell he felt good about himself not only the way he looked and the shape he was in but because he had even more independence even though he wasn't driving yet. He made work friends and got to experience what it's like to work in the United States for the first time and understood life wasn't so easy here after all. Eventually we learned that working full-time wasn't allowing for him to get any studying in at all for the medical exams and we had a few arguments about it because it was interfering with the bigger scheme of things. So on my birthday he stopped working and went back to studying full-time for the medical exams. He only worked a few months at that job and while it would be more difficult on one income this needed to be done for the greater good.

After a few months in our new city we'd moved out of the wretched basement apartment and into a two bedroom apartment near my work with more space than we needed but it was reasonably priced in a safe area. This was where I found that having our own place together was blossoming our marriage and we both were really able to spread our wings. We could make love without inhibitions and we relied on each other more. We didn't have many things at first in the way of furniture, but he had an office to study in, and we had a room to sleep in, and a proper full kitchen to make our meals together, and a dining room to sit down and eat together. Through the local mosque we'd inquired and made contacts to purchase a used car from the acting Imam because we trusted him and we didn't have much money to go places and look at things and afford much more than that. It needed maintenance but we handled it together as each problem came. He's very money savvy and smart about how to get the most of what we can pay. We got all our furniture through our contacts at the mosque because he knew students leaving that needed to get rid of stuff. It's used stuff but it makes it feel more like home with things in it.

However, he was still going through culture shock and his adjustment to the States in that second year together. Only this time we're both living in a place we haven't before with both of us far from our family and friends and all we have is each other. It turns out he's a more social creature while I'm more introverted. He has made lots of friends here but because of my early morning hours I haven't made many friends and that's not for a lack of trying. It's just difficult to have a life when I have to go to bed when everyone else is going out and having fun and I have to wake up when everyone else is sleeping in bed. So that has been very hard for me and he can sympathize. I miss all my friends and family. He's always been my best friend but he literally became my only in person best friend during this time which brought us much closer than ever. We even came to a mutual understanding about what it is that we need from the other in order to know the other one loves us. He has his cultural standards, customs and traditions such as the wife bringing him tea and making the meals and keeping the house clean. While mine were the classic chivalry, or rather manners, of opening the door for me, remembering the important dates such as birthdays and anniversaries and bringing flowers. So there was a bit of training each other on how we wish to be treated and respected. That wasn't inherited natural knowledge for us in the beginning and it took us time to recognize what we needed from the other and ask for that.

At one point I wanted to start a family but he wasn't ready. I'm approaching my mid-30's and I feel I don't have much time left even though we maybe have 5-10 more years to have kids. I have a good job with insurance and so I suggested lets try. That's when he dropped the bomb on me and did a complete 180 that there would be no kids for us. I was devastated. I'd thought the timing wasn't right because he was still adjusting and maybe he needed a few years here before having kids but I also felt like "eff I don't want to have kids after 35" and I'm getting too old.

Before arriving in the States we'd agreed on kids. It's both our first marriage. We're both the same age. We have a lot in common and we love each other. It seemed the natural choice. However, he's Muslim. I'm Christian or rather not practicing religion but a spiritual person. Through his Islamic center he said he'd seen examples of what happens with the second generation of children in marriages like ours where one parent is the first generation immigrant who married a westerner and this affects the kids upbringing and what he saw wass not what he wants for our children so best not to have them.

Basically he wasn't ready at that time so the answer was a stern "No" - never at that point. I cried a lot but what was a going to do about it. Start completely over after everything we'd been through when I knew we loved each other? Not having kids wasn't going to be the end of the world and I knew he was still adjusting having only been here a few years and that we still had some time before kids were completely not an option. It just might not be as many kids as we planned.

Also for him it was about the MENA male pride. If he can't support his own kids and raise a family then we can't have them. He had to get steady work. If we had a baby before he finished his medical exams that would mean he'd have to give up pursuing the dream of being a doctor here and go find any full-time job and start working to help pay for raising our child together. It's just the way it is in his upbringing. It's not that he didn't want kids. So I listened to his complaints and I started taking Arabic classes at the local University to learn the language because it was one of his complaints that the kids from marriages like ours didn't speak Arabic and had never been to the country of their MENA parents roots. They didn't have any idea of half of their cultural identity and didn't really practice Islam because one parent, usually the western mother, wasn't religious. He's religious so it's important to him how they're raised. With him going to be a doctor it's basically up to me to raise them and I'm not religious nor Muslim so that was another big mental hurdle for him after what he'd seen was the result of that. Even though I'd said I'd raise them Muslim like he wished he didn't see any proof of that from me. He'd point out that I don't even know the prayers or the language, ect.

So that next Ramadan in our new apartment together I fasted with him and went to the mosque and broke fast with them and got to know the women. I made friends within the community and put a face to the mysterious "white western wife" as I was known to them, of the new member who was the foreign doctor from Egypt. There was a lot of interest in me and I quickly became friends with the other doctors wives there. It was a nice experience and I don't regret being on his schedule and sharing in his holiday with him. It brought us closer and we had a better understanding of each other. It doesn't mean I converted or anything. After Ramadan I haven't gone to the Mosque again or any events but maybe I'll do it again next Ramadan to learn even more. I'm taking my time, showing my care, and support, and learning as much as I can. I'm not really looking for a religion but I am looking to learn more about his since it's so important to him.

Now that we're past two years here and about to reach three he's taken two out of three medical exams he needs for the Educational Commission for Foreign Medical graduates certificate to be able to apply for residency this year. From his scores he has a very good chance of getting a residency. I have to say that getting past Step 1, which is 75% of the content, was like getting past a huge mental hurdle for him on another issue. He has a better idea of where he stands and what the future looks like.

He also has his driving permit and against my better judgement I've given him the driving lessons at the risk of my own life sometimes. Eeks! But he's a much better driver and I'd say he's ready for his driving test. Just it rains 9 months out of the year here and it's the heart of winter so he's waiting until the non-rainy months to take his driving exam and get his DL. We did buy a mo-ped which is economical gas wise and you don't need a DL to drive it just a permit saying you know the laws and passed the written exam. He drives that thing everywhere and loves his bike so much. He's always working on it and taking care of it. I swear it's his favorite thing to do but he's very mechanically inclined and loves to learn how things work. It provides him with great mobility and driving experience only now he wants a motorcycle but I'm really not sure about that.

It's really been a great help getting him around quicker to the mosque if he wants to attend all five prayers or go to the last prayer of the day each day which it seems the most people go to and stay for awhile afterwords to visit. Our mosque has had a complete renovation while we lived here too so it's updated and more modern and more people are attending including the student population at the local university. They adjust their mid-day prayer time for Friday prayers so students have time to get out of class and come attend the Friday prayers. He always goes on Fridays. Even though I'm not an active member or a Muslim he is and this community has helped us so much here. He even found a job doing translation work through contacts there that provides flexibility while he studies for the medical exams. This gives him the ability to make an income that's nearly three times more than I make an hour and he still gets to study. Plus he's broadened his contacts and presences in the city because he works with the school district, the county courts, and the regional hospitals and medical centers. The local university has the largest population of Arab students and outreach programs in the Arab countries than any other University in the States. They're 1,000+ Arab students here and they all bring their elderly parents, or their husbands and wives who don't speak much English or not that well in English, and their children with them and they need translation services. I used to think that my Husband needed English as a second language classes because of his accent but now I look at him and what he's doing and I'm just in awe at what he's able to do here and how far he's come.

At the end of last year he came to me after all this that we've been through and he said he'd softened up about us not having kids. I thought man that MENA thread about culture shock and adjustment periods was right on the money with the 2-3 years for them to get past it was so right. At that point I'd say he'd been here just over 2.75 years. He told me that it's no longer firm we can't have them and maybe in a year or two we can try to start a family. You can't imagine my relief when I got this news. He also said I don't have to continue working my stressful job anymore and he'll support us both if I wanted to leave work. I was being pursued by a production company to come work with them on a documentary film in Oregon and because I was supporting us I wasn't in a position to take on more so I kept putting them off saying I'll think about it.

But once he said that I knew I had a window of opportunity I felt much better knowing we have a plan now for a family again but I wasn't certain he could support us just on his income since his translation work had just started and he still had one more USMLE Step to take. After a couple months I saw that it was going to be possible for him manage his study schedule and support us. So I turned in my letter of resignation for me to leave my current work and decided to take an opportunity to work on a documentary film with a small production company in our area. Dang, If I'd known a long time ago what translators make I would have gotten a degree in a language like Arabic. But making movies and documentaries was why I got this degree in the first place even though my emphasis is in broadcasting, journalism and political science. Even still I'm thrilled I can quit the news business after three years busting my a$$ in it and I now have the freedom to work on a project as a documentary film maker while my husband is supporting us and finishing his medical exams and we have the possibility to start a family soon. We just started production this month on the documentary and it's been really good. It's fun and I wouldn't call it work. Who gets to say they're going to fun today instead of work? It's great getting to do what I'm passionate about. My spouse made this possible for me because he wants me to be happy and I'd say we're very happy together. We've come a very long way from where we once were nearly ten years ago when this all began. I really had no idea what this journey would be like and where it would take us. There has been ups and downs and I'm just going to ride this high wave one while I can - "living the dream" together.

I share this as my experience. Not as an expert or a know it all or anything like that but as someone with experience that comes from a similar place and can relate. We're all in this together and I get it. Believe I know what you're going through as I've been there. Hang in there. It can get much better. I hope this helps in whatever way it can. Sending you both best wishes and much love.