Female dies in Botched abortion.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

conversely........

conversely what? If you outlaw abortions, only outlaws will have abortions. See how that works?

[Ban Hammer 13,491]

conversely what? If you outlaw abortions, only outlaws will have abortions. See how that works?

[Danno 1,228]

But then again, nearly all Abortions lead to needless death yet few guns ever do.

[decocker 7,198]

But then again, nearly all Abortions lead to needless death yet few guns ever do.

what is this now, the say anything thread?

[Penny Lane 8,159]

what is this now, the say anything thread?

Right?

Let's just make statements, pretend they're true, and hope everyone ignores it.

But then again, nearly all Abortions lead to needless death yet few guns ever do.

Amazing how much you care about an unborn fetus and how little you care about the person carrying it. Pro life indeed.

[james&olya 1,121]

I CALL BS ON YOUR BS I was making a contrast between two women, one in the sex trade and one who might be an ideal daughter..... which women being raped would be more traumatic and seem to most people as a greater wrong?

Legally they are both protected but in the eyes of the average person, there is a "greater moral wrong" committed when attacking certain people, in fact Law even provides certain protections for say the elderly.

So the hooker is fair game in your book? And the teen is "fresh"?? I certainly don't want you making any moral decisions on behalf of myself or anybody close to me!

[james&olya 1,121]

Actually, I was pro-choice until I had my daughter. There are a lot of what ifs that go into the abortion debate - fetal deformity, health of the mother, and rape, but frankly the only one that any of us really should be actively speaking against and can change is the abortions of convenience. Those are the women we should be targeting and how to help those women isn't through scare tactics, but support in changing their situations or pursuing adoption.

You are still articulating a pro-choice position, unless you also have decided that someone in the evil gubmint is who gets to make those difficult personal and moral decisions! Working to make abortions a rarity, encouraging adoptions, this is all very consistent with the positions of most people who are pro-choice. Where we part ways with the euphemistically labeled 'pro-life' crowd is in opposing big government or its partner, big religion, taking over the right of the individual in a free society to make their own personal moral and medical decisions!

[james&olya 1,121]

Morally, I think it is wrong to do it out of convenience.

I agree with you on this. So neither you, nor I, should encourage or help choose for abortion. But I don't, and neither do you, have the right to make that deeply personal and moral decision for someone else. That makes me pro-choice!

[Danno 1,228]

So the hooker is fair game in your book? And the teen is "fresh"?? I certainly don't want you making any moral decisions on behalf of myself or anybody close to me!

Now see there you go doing the sissy lib dance.

No one said anyone was "fair game". If you can't accept that in our culture and in our law we can draw out degrees of grievous behavior... I can't help you .....

continue the dance.

[N-o-l-a 7,168]

I agree with you on this. So neither you, nor I, should encourage or help choose for abortion. But I don't, and neither do you, have the right to make that deeply personal and moral decision for someone else. That makes me pro-choice!

Actually I take it a step further - I actively work towards helping women not choose abortion through my charity and personal work in America. If I am pro choice it is out of a social engineering philosophy that a strong woman with foresight who can be helped through a temporary situation will make a good parent most likely. A woman who is weak and caves to the pressure of a boyfriend or can't handle both school and a baby is likely to make a child's life a living hell. The universe will punish people like that, so the law is not needed. A woman who needs a law to tell her to not murder her healthy baby when it was a child she willingly created and is carrying it in a normal way, well..... it is sad that such a person wouldn't consider using that gift of life to enrich the life of an infertile couple, but why would such a selfish person consider it?

[Penny Lane 8,159]

Actually I take it a step further - I actively work towards helping women not choose abortion through my charity and personal work in America. If I am pro choice it is out of a social engineering philosophy that a strong woman with foresight who can be helped through a temporary situation will make a good parent most likely. A woman who is weak and caves to the pressure of a boyfriend or can't handle both school and a baby is likely to make a child's life a living hell. The universe will punish people like that, so the law is not needed. A woman who needs a law to tell her to not murder her healthy baby when it was a child she willingly created and is carrying it in a normal way, well..... it is sad that such a person wouldn't consider using that gift of life to enrich the life of an infertile couple, but why would such a selfish person consider it?

I feel sorry for the women you "work" with. Considering your issues, you're the last person I'd want life advice from.

Respect a woman's personal decision and leave your personal morals out of it.

I personally would not have an abortion, but I respect another woman's choice to have one regardless of her circumstances. Whether it be through rape, incest, a birth control failure, whatever the case may be. If she does not want to carry that fetus for 9 months, I am not going to tell her she should nor am I going to say she's selfish for not wanting to. That's pro-choice. I trust a woman to make a decision for herself and her life. My life isn't anyone else's, I don't expect people to make decisions for me so I don't make them for anyone else.

I am so sick of people putting the unborn fetus ahead of the woman carrying it and claiming to be pro-life. You're not pro-life if you pick and choose what lives you care about.

Edited February 12, 2013 by Evylin

[decocker 7,198]

If I am pro choice it is out of a social engineering philosophy that a strong woman with foresight who can be helped through a temporary situation will make a good parent most likely. A woman who is weak and caves to the pressure of a boyfriend or can't handle both school and a baby is likely to make a child's life a living hell. The universe will punish people like that, so the law is not needed. A woman who needs a law to tell her to not murder her healthy baby when it was a child she willingly created and is carrying it in a normal way, well..... it is sad that such a person wouldn't consider using that gift of life to enrich the life of an infertile couple, but why would such a selfish person consider it?

[N-o-l-a 7,168]

I feel sorry for the women you "work" with. Considering your issues, you're the last person I'd want life advice from.

If I had a physical impairment would you mock me as well? Or is just because I was born with social anxiety and I'm suffering from bad depression after the death of my father and being in a place that I am unhappy?

Gods, you are a cruel woman.

[Rose13 30]

I have no desire to control anyone's fertility. Why do so many want to control mine? I would never want to have an abortion but I want the option to have a safe, timely one if I ever needed one. My body was given to me by God and the government should not force me to remain pregnant. I am heartbroken that this woman died but her death should not be used as an argument to deny me of my right ti an abortion.

[Penny Lane 8,159]

If I had a physical impairment would you mock me as well? Or is just because I was born with social anxiety and I'm suffering from bad depression after the death of my father and being in a place that I am unhappy?

Gods, you are a cruel woman.

I'm not mocking you.

I'm saying I would not take life advice from you. I think you should allow women to make choices for themselves, the same way you've been able to make choices for you.

It's disrespectful of other women to assume they cannot make their own fertility choices.

Edited February 12, 2013 by Evylin