Female dies in Botched abortion.

[Danno 1,228]

Actually that story in Philly made national and international news and was quite horrific. As somebody who happens to be pretty anti-abortion, I don't think there is a need to use unverified stories to scare people. It is either something people are morally for or against and no amount of scare tactics is going to make them change their minds.

I respectfully disagree, not specific to this story but on the subject as a whole.

Peoples morals are definitely swayed by misinformation and with no one to present another view point or a proper framing of the issue we end up with live unborn humans being burned alive or torn limb from limb.

And what is the justification for allowing these businesses to operate? None needed.

What was it MLK said, something like, "Not the actions of my enemies but the silence of my friends which hurt the most". (Very rough recollection)

[Danno 1,228]

I call BS! You were contrasting her with a hooker. That was not age based, that was based on some other standard! The hooker would also presumably be in the prime of her life!

Be honest with yourself on this!

I CALL BS ON YOUR BS I was making a contrast between two women, one in the sex trade and one who might be an ideal daughter..... which women being raped would be more traumatic and seem to most people as a greater wrong?

Legally they are both protected but in the eyes of the average person, there is a "greater moral wrong" committed when attacking certain people, in fact Law even provides certain protections for say the elderly.

[Danno 1,228]

why do you assume an example is needed? like no one has seen those exploitation photos before..please.

Ultra-sounds of abortions are exploitations now?

Are you anti-science as well?

[decocker 7,198]

Ultra-sounds of abortions are exploitations now?

Are you anti-science as well?

posting 'ultra sounds of abortions' in an online forum has zero relation to science. none.

[Danno 1,228]

posting 'ultra sounds of abortions' in an online forum has zero relation to science. none.

You don't realize it but that bit of technology accounts for a lot of the problem with getting people to stay in the business.

It is quite taxing to watch time after time that little person being torn apart live on a screen. A number of even Abortion doctors have attributed this to the reason they changed their mind on the issue of destroying healthy fetuses.

Need names?

[decocker 7,198]

You don't realize it but that bit of technology accounts for a lot of the problem with getting people to stay in the business.

It is quite taxing to watch time after time that little person being torn apart live on a screen. A number of even Abortion doctors have attributed this to the reason they changed their mind on the issue of destroying healthy fetuses.

Need names?

no, i've already been through the indoctrination you still suffer from.

are you still uninterested in finding out why the mother was attempting to reach out to the source of the op before she died?

[Danno 1,228]

no, i've already been through the indoctrination you still suffer from.

are you still uninterested in finding out why the mother was attempting to reach out to the source of the op before she died?

Do you even know what the word "indoctrination" means?

You make conversation so meaningless.

[N-o-l-a 7,168]

I respectfully disagree, not specific to this story but on the subject as a whole.

Peoples morals are definitely swayed by misinformation and with no one to present another view point or a proper framing of the issue we end up with live unborn humans being burned alive or torn limb from limb.

And what is the justification for allowing these businesses to operate? None needed.

What was it MLK said, something like, "Not the actions of my enemies but the silence of my friends which hurt the most". (Very rough recollection)

But, I don't think images of abortions or stories are going to change anyone's mind.

Actually, I was pro-choice until I had my daughter. Holding her in my arms and watching her become this amazing little person flipped some switch in my head that activated the how could a person end a precious little life just for their own convenience and why do people feel like they can play god with a life they wilfully created (if they did in fact have consensual sex). There are a lot of what ifs that go into the abortion debate - fetal deformity, health of the mother, and rape, but frankly the only one that any of us really should be actively speaking against and can change is the abortions of convenience. Women who are choosing to end the lives of their babies because it isn't the right time or not the right man are choosing a permanent solution to a temporary problem. Those are the women we should be targeting and how to help those women isn't through scare tactics, but support in changing their situations or pursuing adoption.

[decocker 7,198]

Do you even know what the word "indoctrination" means?

You make conversation so meaningless.

certainly do.

there's no conversation when you can't answer basic questions.

[Danno 1,228]

But, I don't think images of abortions or stories are going to change anyone's mind.

Actually, I was pro-choice until I had my daughter. Holding her in my arms and watching her become this amazing little person flipped some switch in my head that activated the how could a person end a precious little life just for their own convenience and why do people feel like they can play god with a life they wilfully created (if they did in fact have consensual sex). There are a lot of what ifs that go into the abortion debate - fetal deformity, health of the mother, and rape, but frankly the only one that any of us really should be actively speaking against and can change is the abortions of convenience. Women who are choosing to end the lives of their babies because it isn't the right time or not the right man are choosing a permanent solution to a temporary problem. Those are the women we should be targeting and how to help those women isn't through scare tactics, but support in changing their situations or pursuing adoption.

I am not an absolutists, I recognize there are a few rare extreme situations which might require the taking of that life.

What we have today in nearly all cases is the elective decision to end life for no reason given... up to the stage of a fully developed baby.

Ironically this goes on in the richest countries of the world.

never in history has having a child been met with such security and even lack of shame if the circumstances of birth were not ideal.

[Penny Lane 8,159]

And you say you care about this woman. You don't. You're using her story (and not even bothering to find out the whole story) to make some kind of misguided point. And you're failing. And everyone sees it but you.

[Penny Lane 8,159]

But, I don't think images of abortions or stories are going to change anyone's mind.

Actually, I was pro-choice until I had my daughter. Holding her in my arms and watching her become this amazing little person flipped some switch in my head that activated the how could a person end a precious little life just for their own convenience and why do people feel like they can play god with a life they wilfully created (if they did in fact have consensual sex). There are a lot of what ifs that go into the abortion debate - fetal deformity, health of the mother, and rape, but frankly the only one that any of us really should be actively speaking against and can change is the abortions of convenience. Women who are choosing to end the lives of their babies because it isn't the right time or not the right man are choosing a permanent solution to a temporary problem. Those are the women we should be targeting and how to help those women isn't through scare tactics, but support in changing their situations or pursuing adoption.

You can't decide who is worthy of an abortion and who isn't.

What's funny is these pro-life and pro-gun people.

"Ban abortion because some women use it for the wrong reasons, but don't ban guns because of the people who use it for a bad reason."

Abortions need to be available, safely, for all women who choose to have one. End of story. You can't pick and choose who you believe is worthy.

Edited February 11, 2013 by Evylin

[N-o-l-a 7,168]

You can't decide who is worthy of an abortion and who isn't.

No one is picking or choosing.

Morally, I think it is wrong to do it out of convenience.

Do I think we need a law to ban convenience abortions? No, I think we need social changes.

Try not to be so judgemental of people's opinions that are different than yours, it might be enlightening.

[Penny Lane 8,159]

No one is picking or choosing.

Morally, I think it is wrong to do it out of convenience.

Do I think we need a law to ban convenience abortions? No, I think we need social changes.

Try not to be so judgemental of people's opinions that are different than yours, it might be enlightening.

Responding to your opinion with an opinion of my own isn't judging.

What's morally right for you is fine. For you.

Edited February 11, 2013 by Evylin

[Ban Hammer 13,491]

What's funny is these pro-life and pro-gun people.

"Ban abortion because some women use it for the wrong reasons, but don't ban guns because of the people who use it for a bad reason."

conversely........