Glad he is safe

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

[quote name=' timestamp='1360171253' post='5963604]

A big part of this conversation needs to be around getting used to the fact that there is risk in life. If you share a planet with other people, one of them could hurt you. It's a risk we all take and it's time we got used to it instead of always looking for new ways to curb the freedom of others.

True, but how they hurt you is a different story. Maybe if they would stop handing out weapons like candy screaming about 2nd amendment rights, you'd have less gun deaths.

[Penny Lane 8,159]

As far as I can tell there is no national database for mental illness. Most states don't even have this kind of database.

I just think it's a stretch to say "If we had this law or that law, this would have never happened."

I don't know what law would have stopped this from happening.

All that's clear is that he had pretty severe issues, judging from the statements of people who knew him and he had easy access to weapons. That's a problem.

[Karee 4,190]

I don't know what law would have stopped this from happening.

All that's clear is that he had pretty severe issues, judging from the statements of people who knew him and he had easy access to weapons. That's a problem.

If the guy was that mentally disturbed, I would say he shouldn't have access to the general public.

[Penny Lane 8,159]

If the guy was that mentally disturbed, I would say he shouldn't have access to the general public.

And I wouldn't disagree. But where's he to go? Mental health care in this country is a joke.

Dykes, who served in the Navy from 1964 to 1969, earning several awards, including the Vietnam Service Medal and the Good Conduct Medal, was known by neighbors for his anti-government rants and for patrolling his property with a gun, ready to shoot trespassers. Neighbors described Dykes as a menacing, unpredictable man who once beat a dog to death with a lead pipe.

People like this having easy access to firearms is terrifying. And yet they do. And the only answer people seem to have is that we should arm everyone.

Edited February 6, 2013 by Evylin

[lostinblue 1,989]

I don't know what law would have stopped this from happening.

All that's clear is that he had pretty severe issues, judging from the statements of people who knew him and he had easy access to weapons. That's a problem.

If he did not have a gun then he would have never taken a child to his bunker correct.

[Penny Lane 8,159]

If he did not have a gun then he would have never taken a child to his bunker correct.

If he didn't have a gun, the situation likely would not have gone down the way it did. He only got access to the child after killing the bus driver who was protecting him.

[Karee 4,190]

But where's he to go? Mental health care in this country is a joke.

I agree with you there. I think the conversation should start moving to the root cause of the person commiting the crime, rather than the instrument used. It's much easier to blame an inanimate object for these violent episodes than it is to blame society as a whole, or the way we handle mental illness in tis country. We can just run around all day screaming "it's the guns, it's the guns!!" IMO the gun issue can not be resolved. 300+ million guns in this country. They'll pass some B.S. laws here and there that'll give certain politicians some nice photo ops, and Piers Morgan can keep going on his rants, but laws aren't going to change any of this.

[Penny Lane 8,159]

I agree with you there. I think the conversation should start moving to the root cause of the person commiting the crime, rather than the instrument used. It's much easier to blame an inanimate object for these violent episodes than it is to blame society as a whole, or the way we handle mental illness in tis country. We can just run around all day screaming "it's the guns, it's the guns!!" IMO the gun issue can not be resolved. 300+ million guns in this country. They'll pass some B.S. laws here and there that'll give certain politicians some nice photo ops, and Piers Morgan can keep going on his rants, but laws aren't going to change any of this.

I don't see it as blaming the inanimate object or the instrument used. Guns sitting in a room by themselves aren't going to kill anyone. And they should be accessible to those responsible enough to use them. The problem is that they're TOO accessible and far too easy to obtain, which means that these crazies who have clear anger/anxiety/PTSD/whatever issues can just go out, purchase one, and do whatever they want.

It's not just the guns. I don't know of anyone who thinks it's just the guns. It's a multitude of issues that end up in tragedy happening.

Slightly unstable and get fired from your job? Go purchase a gun that day, come back, and shoot up your work environment. It's that freaking easy.

And in these discussions, someone inevitably says "well if the gun wasn't there, they'd use anything!"

They don't choose to use anything though. They choose what is the easiest to use and what will take out the most victims in the shortest period of time. Why are we handing guns out like candy to anyone who wants one? Because a document in the 1700s said they have the "right" to one? With no rules and regulations whatsoever? Sounds crazy to me.

Edited February 6, 2013 by Evylin

[Teddy B 17,252]

What current or proposed law would've stopped this person from obtaining a firearm legally?

A background check or mental health evaluation would probably have done that.

[Karee 4,190]

A background check or mental health evaluation would probably have done that.

A current backround check would not have stopped him from purchasing a weapon. Are you proposing that every person that wants to purchase a firearm should have to pass a mental health evaluation?

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

A current backround check would not have stopped him from purchasing a weapon. Are you proposing that every person that wants to purchase a firearm should have to pass a mental health evaluation?

I think so, you know why? Because a gun, no matter how you spin it is a weapon. Now before all you folks that come on and say "so are cars, planes and other silliness" let me break it down for you:

You should get a screening because you are handling a weapon that can kill multiple people in a matter of seconds. A car, plane, and other objects have a different primary purpose, transportation. Folks say, people die more from smoking, true. Show me where a guy/gal walked into a school and starting killing folks with tobacco. Someone said bats and knives kill more folks than guns, don't see anyone running around beating folks to death in mass faction or stabbings. It's about context, people. Look at the guns from 1790, you had the flintlock pistol and the longhunter rifle. How many rounds are we talking about here? One. Bet you didn't have mass shootings back then. And folks are trying to apply something that was written over 200 years ago to our current circumstances. All you gun owners, where is your militia card? I did some research on this for my paper, people say they want to bear arms because of the government. Show me the time when OUR government, not someone else's has tried to take over?

[^_^ 5,021]

A current backround check would not have stopped him from purchasing a weapon. Are you proposing that every person that wants to purchase a firearm should have to pass a mental health evaluation?

If we deprive veterans suffering from PTSD from the exercise of one constitutional right, how many other constitutional rights can we take away from them too? Maybe we don't let them vote anymore either. Oh and freedom of expression? Not for you!

... people say they want to bear arms because of the government. Show me the time when OUR government, not someone else's has tried to take over?

This is a young country. No matter what some Americans say, there is much to be learned from the experiences of countries and cultures older than ours. Look to Europe. Look to Asia. There is more than enough historical precedent there.

[decocker 7,198]

A current backround check would not have stopped him from purchasing a weapon. Are you proposing that every person that wants to purchase a firearm should have to pass a mental health evaluation?

i read that his neighbors said that he would patrol his property at night and threatened to shoot any children that wandered on to his property..also the whole thing with the pipe and the dog. trouble is that folks closest to people who's mental health might be taking a dive have little to no options to take any sort of preventative measure before something horrible happens..

[Karee 4,190]

I think so, you know why? Because a gun, no matter how you spin it is a weapon. Now before all you folks that come on and say "so are cars, planes and other silliness" let me break it down for you:

You should get a screening because you are handling a weapon that can kill multiple people in a matter of seconds. A car, plane, and other objects have a different primary purpose, transportation. Folks say, people die more from smoking, true. Show me where a guy/gal walked into a school and starting killing folks with tobacco. Someone said bats and knives kill more folks than guns, don't see anyone running around beating folks to death in mass faction or stabbings. It's about context, people. Look at the guns from 1790, you had the flintlock pistol and the longhunter rifle. How many rounds are we talking about here? One. Bet you didn't have mass shootings back then. And folks are trying to apply something that was written over 200 years ago to our current circumstances. All you gun owners, where is your militia card? I did some research on this for my paper, people say they want to bear arms because of the government. Show me the time when OUR government, not someone else's has tried to take over?

You're not going to get that silly cars and hands and feet argument from me. There's no way that the 2nd ammendment will be changed anytime soon.

[Penny Lane 8,159]

i read that his neighbors said that he would patrol his property at night and threatened to shoot any children that wandered on to his property..also the whole thing with the pipe and the dog. trouble is that folks closest to people who's mental health might be taking a dive have little to no options to take any sort of preventative measure before something horrible happens..

Yep, I posted a quote from them above. They knew this guy had problems and there was nothing anybody could do about it.

Everyone is always screaming "what were the signs? how did nobody notice there was something wrong??" when something like this happens. There were signs, people did notice, the problem is that there are no options.

He has the weapons he is not mentally stable enough to use responsibly. Nothing to do but wait until something like this happens and he'll either kill himself, be killed, or be locked away for life. No preventative measures here.

Edited February 6, 2013 by Evylin