AOS Denied. What next?

[AnotherLostSoul 167]

#######! I did not know all this...ugh greentrain, you really got to think this through... I'll be in the background crossing my fingers though...

[GreenTrain 1]

When you appeal you have several option available on the appeal form-

An appeal is a request to a higher authority to review a decision. It goes through the Officer first though. See where it says on the form- it may be considered by USCIS as a motion before forwarded to AAO? thats what it means. AAO is the higher authority. USCIS is the officer. So the officer is going to see it first, treat it as a motion, if the approve it, it ends there, if they dont, it gets forwarded to the AAO which they attempt to resolve appeals within six months of receipt.

So when you file an appeal youre appealing the decision to the AAO but the officer who made the original decision will first review the record. A review of the record will determine whether the evidence or argument submitted in the appeal warrants reopening or reconsidering the decision. If they do- it ends there. If the adjudicating officer determines it doesnt, the officer will forward the case for further review to the AAO.

If you file a Motions to Reopen or Reconsider: A motion to reopen is a request to the original decision maker to review a decision. The motion must be based on factual grounds, such as the discovery of new evidence or changed circumstances, and "state the new facts to be provided in the reopened proceedings and be supported by affidavits or other documentary evidence." See 8 CFR 103.5(a)(2). (you cant re-open but you can reconsider)

A motion to reconsider is a request to the original decision maker to review a decision based on new or additional legal arguments. The motion must establish that the decision was incorrect based on the evidence of record at the time of that decision, and it must state the reasons for reconsideration. A motion to reconsider must be supported by "any pertinent precedent decisions to establish that the decision was based on an incorrect application of law or [uSCIS] policy." See 8 CFR 103.5(a)(3). Unlike a motion to reopen, new evidence or changed circumstances cannot support the filing of a motion to reconsider. The motion stays at the local office and are supposedly adjudicated in 90 days. If you disagree with the decision you can then appeal it to the AAO.

In either situation its going to go through the Officer who denied you. In the appeal, you dont need to quote laws or policy, in the motion to reconsider you do. In the appeal, it will get forwarded to the AAO if the officer rejects it, in the motion, it wont unless you forced it to if its rejected.

Because the motion and possible process through the AAO can take a while some people choose to refile and file the motion/appeal because they want both of them moving at the same time. Its like having 2 horses in the race in case one bows out, you have something else going. (Like I said the AAO can take 6 months, the motion can take 90 days and then you have to file with the AAO)

Refiling may get you a different Officer to interview you but its not going to change the fact that theres a note in your file saying you were denied for AOS for being suspected of seeking immigration benefits.

IMO filing the appeal shows you disagree with their findings, where refiling looks more like youre just trying to 'get away with it again'.

If it was me, I would appeal with the motion that should be decided with in 90 days by the officer. If its denied then I would refile and not bother going through the AAO. You can quote policy. You did submit all necessary proof of a bonafide marriage. (I dont believe you had a stokes interview did you?) So they should bring you back in for one. And you should be approved after that. And bring additional evidence this time.

@capri: Thats Big useful information for me and whoever in similar situation.

My lawyer also suggested me to go for both but i was not that convinced. I thought it just go to same officer, and thats it.

Now, i strongly feel that i should go for both 'HORSES'. Expensive but worth it.

Do we have any experience like that here?

Other senior members may also chime in please.

Thanks a Lot, capri !

I had Stokes interview but they ignored all the evidences (i had very strong evidences spanned across 3 yrs)

Lets see how it goes...

GOD Bless all !

[AnotherLostSoul 167]

WOW, that is awesome! Go for both! It is a bit more expensive, but at this point, it is worth it! Man, if you get approved GreenTrain I'll want your address to send you a congratulations card!!!!

[GreenTrain 1]

WOW, that is awesome! Go for both! It is a bit more expensive, but at this point, it is worth it! Man, if you get approved GreenTrain I'll want your address to send you a congratulations card!!!!

Definitely AnotherLostSoul ! I wish that day come quickly and we party together in Sacramento !!!

I am going for both. I won't leave anything un-explored.

Glad we have great community called "VJ" with Bonus, people like you !!!

[GreenTrain 1]

Okay. Further on this...Questions:

1. While re-file, Can i use same I-693 (medical) if its still under one year?

2. EAD received based on previous application, will be valid or not if i appeal?

[Villanelle 4,122]

If your medical is still valid then it should be fine and you shouldnt need another one. I wouldnt send it in. (since youre spending so much already in fees I would send it in w/o it and if you get an RFE for a new medical do it again then- plan ahead though, shop around and find the cheapest Drs now just in case because the RFE will have a limited time to complete it in) Also you said you had a lawyer- didnt they advise you on if the medical is needed? I believe if youre refiling you should only be sending in the 485 and your approval notice for the 130 as it should still be valid.

Your EAD isnt valid anymore. When you were denied, everything was killed. If you want another EAD you have to apply again with your new AOS packet. Youll get a new EAD card. Your old one is nothing more then a souvenir now. If your appeal is granted and youre approved then the EAD card is worthless anyway because youd get the GC so its (the old card) is never going to be valid again.

[greenie80 3]

If your medical is still valid then it should be fine and you shouldnt need another one. I wouldnt send it in. (since youre spending so much already in fees I would send it in w/o it and if you get an RFE for a new medical do it again then- plan ahead though, shop around and find the cheapest Drs now just in case because the RFE will have a limited time to complete it in) Also you said you had a lawyer- didnt they advise you on if the medical is needed? I believe if youre refiling you should only be sending in the 485 and your approval notice for the 130 as it should still be valid.

Your EAD isnt valid anymore. When you were denied, everything was killed. If you want another EAD you have to apply again with your new AOS packet. Youll get a new EAD card. Your old one is nothing more then a souvenir now. If your appeal is granted and youre approved then the EAD card is worthless anyway because youd get the GC so its (the old card) is never going to be valid again.

Greentrain wouldn't have approval if I-130 since they didn't believe the marriage (after the stokes)...

[Villanelle 4,122]

hmm Im not really sure about that. I think just the 485 was denied. He would have to check the wording on his denial. I think they denied his 485 for suspecting he was trying to adjust under the suspcion to obtain benefits, not that he had no basis for a 130. His marriage is a legally valid marriage. His 130 approval should still be valid and he shouldnt need to refile that- but I dont know.

There was an update on the other thread where the user got a new interview for missing it. When their motion to reopen was granted and the new interview was granted they were advised that the prior EAD card is reinstated until the new interview. So my prior statement that its just a souvenir is somewhat inaccurate. It is but it isnt. Dont go shredding it. Right now its worthless. But if the motions granted and you get approved for a new interview the card will be valid at that point and will remain valid until the new interview kay?

Edited February 15, 2013 by capri

[GreenTrain 1]

But if the motions granted and you get approved for a new interview the card will be valid at that point and will remain valid until the new interview kay?

I have filed the appeal to BIA.

Now:

1. What outcomes i can expect?

2. If appeal approved, i'll get GC or another interview?

3. I have valid EAD until end of the year. Is this valid until appeal goes on? How this will work with appeal outcome?

4. Usually how much time it takes to get decisions on such appeals? Do we both need to go to court or just attorney?

Do somebody have clear picture of complete process of appeals?

Thank You !

[GreenTrain 1]

@greenie80:

Any update from your side?

[greenie80 3]

Hi guys! So we had our second interview. Our appointment was at 8:45 and we didn't go in until almost 10am. The lady called us, she was a big african american lady who moved very slowwww, as she was opening the door to let us in the back, she took a look back and she went "ugh!" yeah again we had a crappy officer that didn't feel like looking at all our bonafide proof. The interview was not videotaped. So we sat down and she asked us to do the oath. She started by asking me the date i arrived in the states and with whom. Then she started asking me what happened (since i had been married 2x before) she wanted me to start from the time i met my first husband in high school up until the time i married my 3rd husband. She asked for a timeline and wrote down a few dates. At one point when i was talking about my first husband, she asked me "so when you filed the papers, who paid for it, how did you pay the lawyer?" I was getting agitated because i told her we paid for it but i couldn't remember how (cash or check) and she said "oh come on you must remember" and i said "no, you are asking me things that happened when i was 20 years old (12 years ago) and i don't remember". Then she said "we are just having a conversation here, we can do this the easy way or the hard way, I'm not going to separate you, i just need you to tell me what happened and how you got from point A to point C because your first officer already wrote in your file that you got married for a GC but i am giving you the chance to explain" at that point my husband said to relax and rubbed my back because I was starting to cry. Then i told her "you have to understand that I haven't thought about this stuff in a long time and this is painful for me because talking about it, is reliving it again" I continued with my story and she would again ask me questions and pick apart almost everything i said, like for example my first husband and i got married and he was a marine so after getting married he had to go back to his station and wait to find out where he was going to go next and once he knew i would go move in with him so she would ask if i ever visited him, and i said "no" and she said "why not", i told her i was afraid to fly and she said so you couldn't drive over there?" and I was trying to explain that I was basically a teenager and I was not about to just drive a car to South Carolina (back then people didn't even have GPS) and risk getting lost?? but she wouldn't let me explain those things and when she finally shut up after giving her own opinion, she would ask me to move to what happened next! so that's how it went then i told her about my second marriage which lasted 9 years and she didn't give me a hard time about that. She did say, "she can't be going from one marriage to the next, a woman needs to heal" and again, that's her opinion but everyone is different and in reality being with my husband healed me from my previous marriage, thats how i dealt with it so i guess she wanted me to apologize for moving on?? At that point my lawyer also jumped in saying that we have a signed affidavit from my first husband stating everything i told her and also an approved I-130 for my 2nd husband. Then she moved on to my husband and asked him how he met me, what we talked about when we first met in 2004 and my husband said "we made conversation, it was a party and we talked about whatever topic was brought up" i was thinking does anybody remember conversations they had with friends 9 years ago, really?? She asked him if I told him that i was married at the time and he said "she had a ring on her finger" and she said "thats not what i asked" because any random person you meet will say "hello, my name is...and I married" it's not an AA meeting is what i was thinking arrggggg then she asked how we started dating, how his parents feel about me. At that point my lawyer said that we has an affidavit from his parents and she said "i don't want to see it" She said she didn't care about paperwork, she's more of a testimony person. She said she really didn't want to take all the proof we brought and that what we brought was overkill and I said, "the paper we got says to bring all those documents and now you say you don't want them, but if we wouldn't have brought them, we would be getting denied for not bringing them" and she said "he (my lawyer) knows me and i don't care for paperwork" Inside i was thinking, "well what if we got an officer that did care about paperwork? we had to be prepared for that!" anyway she asked me what is your parents' situation and i said they recently became GC holders then she said "how'd they do that?" i said my sister is a US citizen then immediately I said "my sister is a citizen, my parents are GC holders and I'm the only one without legal status" so in the end she said before making a decision she had to review the files and if what i said is backed up by whats in the files (but she says she doesn't care about paperwork??) she said "i have to read 1, 2, 3 and 4 before i can make a decision" then we asked how long and she said "i cant say if it's going to be today, tomorrow in 30 days, 60 days" then my lawyer jumped in "so you don't think 60 days?" and she said "now you know i technically have 180 days, right?" and my husband said to me "we are going to lose our tickets to Peru again" and i said "yes we are" so then she asked about that and i explained we bought these tickets last year and already had to pay to move them once so she asked me for the new date and we told her, so she paused and said "i will keep that in the back of my mind" and wrote the date on a post it note and put it on top of the file. Then she said "do you have any questions for me?" and i said "can you give us an idea on the decision" and she said "do you really want to know" and i said "i want to know if it's good or bad either way" and she said "based on the evidence you have provided there is a high probability that you will be approved" so after that we got up. i didnt shake her hand cause i was pissed off but my lawyer and husband did. Then we exited and i started to cry my lawyer said we did really good and there is nothing in those files that will hurt my case, that everything we said is backed up and that that officer is very lazy and she wont even look at it and even if she does, she wont know what she's looking at because most of it is legal mambo jumbo. He said it couldn't have gone better but of course i'm concerned because that's what he said last time and we waited 9 months for a second interview. anyway guys i'm going to bed, hopefully this nightmare will be over soon and i am green!

[Brian&Ivy 1]

Hi guys! So we had our second interview. Our appointment was at 8:45 and we didn't go in until almost 10am. The lady called us, she was a big african american lady who moved very slowwww, as she was opening the door to let us in the back, she took a look back and she went "ugh!" yeah again we had a crappy officer that didn't feel like looking at all our bonafide proof. The interview was not videotaped. So we sat down and she asked us to do the oath. She started by asking me the date i arrived in the states and with whom. Then she started asking me what happened (since i had been married 2x before) she wanted me to start from the time i met my first husband in high school up until the time i married my 3rd husband. She asked for a timeline and wrote down a few dates. At one point when i was talking about my first husband, she asked me "so when you filed the papers, who paid for it, how did you pay the lawyer?" I was getting agitated because i told her we paid for it but i couldn't remember how (cash or check) and she said "oh come on you must remember" and i said "no, you are asking me things that happened when i was 20 years old (12 years ago) and i don't remember". Then she said "we are just having a conversation here, we can do this the easy way or the hard way, I'm not going to separate you, i just need you to tell me what happened and how you got from point A to point C because your first officer already wrote in your file that you got married for a GC but i am giving you the chance to explain" at that point my husband said to relax and rubbed my back because I was starting to cry. Then i told her "you have to understand that I haven't thought about this stuff in a long time and this is painful for me because talking about it, is reliving it again" I continued with my story and she would again ask me questions and pick apart almost everything i said, like for example my first husband and i got married and he was a marine so after getting married he had to go back to his station and wait to find out where he was going to go next and once he knew i would go move in with him so she would ask if i ever visited him, and i said "no" and she said "why not", i told her i was afraid to fly and she said so you couldn't drive over there?" and I was trying to explain that I was basically a teenager and I was not about to just drive a car to South Carolina (back then people didn't even have GPS) and risk getting lost?? but she wouldn't let me explain those things and when she finally shut up after giving her own opinion, she would ask me to move to what happened next! so that's how it went then i told her about my second marriage which lasted 9 years and she didn't give me a hard time about that. She did say, "she can't be going from one marriage to the next, a woman needs to heal" and again, that's her opinion but everyone is different and in reality being with my husband healed me from my previous marriage, thats how i dealt with it so i guess she wanted me to apologize for moving on?? At that point my lawyer also jumped in saying that we have a signed affidavit from my first husband stating everything i told her and also an approved I-130 for my 2nd husband. Then she moved on to my husband and asked him how he met me, what we talked about when we first met in 2004 and my husband said "we made conversation, it was a party and we talked about whatever topic was brought up" i was thinking does anybody remember conversations they had with friends 9 years ago, really?? She asked him if I told him that i was married at the time and he said "she had a ring on her finger" and she said "thats not what i asked" because any random person you meet will say "hello, my name is...and I married" it's not an AA meeting is what i was thinking arrggggg then she asked how we started dating, how his parents feel about me. At that point my lawyer said that we has an affidavit from his parents and she said "i don't want to see it" She said she didn't care about paperwork, she's more of a testimony person. She said she really didn't want to take all the proof we brought and that what we brought was overkill and I said, "the paper we got says to bring all those documents and now you say you don't want them, but if we wouldn't have brought them, we would be getting denied for not bringing them" and she said "he (my lawyer) knows me and i don't care for paperwork" Inside i was thinking, "well what if we got an officer that did care about paperwork? we had to be prepared for that!" anyway she asked me what is your parents' situation and i said they recently became GC holders then she said "how'd they do that?" i said my sister is a US citizen then immediately I said "my sister is a citizen, my parents are GC holders and I'm the only one without legal status" so in the end she said before making a decision she had to review the files and if what i said is backed up by whats in the files (but she says she doesn't care about paperwork??) she said "i have to read 1, 2, 3 and 4 before i can make a decision" then we asked how long and she said "i cant say if it's going to be today, tomorrow in 30 days, 60 days" then my lawyer jumped in "so you don't think 60 days?" and she said "now you know i technically have 180 days, right?" and my husband said to me "we are going to lose our tickets to Peru again" and i said "yes we are" so then she asked about that and i explained we bought these tickets last year and already had to pay to move them once so she asked me for the new date and we told her, so she paused and said "i will keep that in the back of my mind" and wrote the date on a post it note and put it on top of the file. Then she said "do you have any questions for me?" and i said "can you give us an idea on the decision" and she said "do you really want to know" and i said "i want to know if it's good or bad either way" and she said "based on the evidence you have provided there is a high probability that you will be approved" so after that we got up. i didnt shake her hand cause i was pissed off but my lawyer and husband did. Then we exited and i started to cry my lawyer said we did really good and there is nothing in those files that will hurt my case, that everything we said is backed up and that that officer is very lazy and she wont even look at it and even if she does, she wont know what she's looking at because most of it is legal mambo jumbo. He said it couldn't have gone better but of course i'm concerned because that's what he said last time and we waited 9 months for a second interview. anyway guys i'm going to bed, hopefully this nightmare will be over soon and i am green!

Big cong! The IO is not bad at all I think as she didn't give you stroke interview for 4 hours!! Enjoy your trip back to Peru!

[greenie80 3]

Thanks but that lady was a ###### with separation or no separation plus my husband and I were prepared for a 4hr interview about our lives together rather than what happened to me 12+ years ago especially since she didn't like when I answered "I don't remember". Anyhoo we are past that now and just waiting for our approval

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

I am glad officers like that woman thoroughly check for scamming immigrants and kick out frauds. Good for her.

[AnotherLostSoul 167]

Hey Greenie:

First of all, a big big congratulations, and if you don't mind, a big e-hug for you! Wow! Seemed like your interview wasn't one that was so pleasant and gave you a warm feeling, but hey, put it behind, it's all over now and you came out as being approved, so that is good. I hope you'll get the actual notification over mail soon as that one is the one that gives you security that this is all true, and really done. And then of course when your green card will be sitting in your mail warming the mail box. Yay! Congratulations again, and I'm happy to hear from you! I hope GreenTrain is doing all right, I've been thinking of him a lot lately, wondering where is he, did he move already, or what...I worry about him...