Filing jointly

[sandlerkia 0]

if you are supposed to file the return with the statement including the NRA spouse's ssn/ITIN and W-7 asks that the return be sent with the forms of Identification, how do you make the election? Do you do it without the NRA spouse's ssn/itin?

[srloring13 12]

Ah, sorry about that. I saw the thread title - "Filing Jointly" and missed the first part of your sentence.

But here's another, related question for filing jointly:

Under the new IRS rules, the requirements for documents needed to prove identity and foreign status have gotten very strict. The IRS now wants to see either ORIGINAL documents or copies "certified by the agency that issued the original document." My wife obtained two copies of her birth certificate, certified by her local notarial office. She has one of them, which she'll be taking to her visa interview. I have the other one, and I've been hoping it's acceptable for applying for an ITIN. My question is: Is a Chinese notarial birth certificate acceptable as proof of identity under the new ITIN rules?

You will also need to include a certified copy of a photo identification along with the birth certificate. If you send a certified copy of her passport, you dont need to send any other documents.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/iw7.pdf or http://www.irs.gov/instructions/iw7/ch01.html

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/fw7.pdf

http://www.irs.gov/uac/2012-ITIN-Review-Frequently-Asked-Questions-1

[shira 4]

You will also need to include a certified copy of a photo identification along with the birth certificate. If you send a certified copy of her passport, you dont need to send any other documents.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/iw7.pdf or http://www.irs.gov/instructions/iw7/ch01.html

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/fw7.pdf

http://www.irs.gov/uac/2012-ITIN-Review-Frequently-Asked-Questions-1

If don't think this option is available for a Chinese NRA. My wife checked with the passport office, and they didn't offer any type of service that could provide a certified copy of her passport. Remember: Under the new ITIN rules, the certified copy being submitted with the ITIN form MUST be made by the same agency that creates the original. If my wife didn't ask the right question, I hope someone here will provide information as to how to obtain an acceptable certified copy of a Chinese passport.

Anyway, we were planning on using her notarial birth certificate and her original ID card (she has two current ID cards, and gave me one of them). But I'm not sure that a notarial birth certificate is acceptable to the IRS. Anyone here know for sure?

[rin and john 71]

Try emailing the IRS at the embassy in Beijing.

http://guangzhou.use...s_us-taxes.html

mailto:irs.beijing@irs.gov

They should be able to help better than a stateside IRS employee.

Edit: addressed to those asking about China, not the OP.

Edited February 5, 2013 by rin and john

[The Mean Lady 604]

If don't think this option is available for a Chinese NRA. My wife checked with the passport office, and they didn't offer any type of service that could provide a certified copy of her passport. Remember: Under the new ITIN rules, the certified copy being submitted with the ITIN form MUST be made by the same agency that creates the original. If my wife didn't ask the right question, I hope someone here will provide information as to how to obtain an acceptable certified copy of a Chinese passport.

Anyway, we were planning on using her notarial birth certificate and her original ID card (she has two current ID cards, and gave me one of them). But I'm not sure that a notarial birth certificate is acceptable to the IRS. Anyone here know for sure?

You can get the copy made by the US embassy.

[Darnell 8,478]

w-7 id coming from china - IMO, the 'least ambiguous' of all, is a notarized copy of the bio page of the passport, notarized by a vice consul at a us embassy / consulate in china, gotten during ACS appointment. ya pay 50 bucks. I've written about this a bit - use advanced search tool - search term = 'chengdu' - Member Name 'Darnell', click on 'Display as posts'

Edited February 5, 2013 by Darnell

[Hilario 13]

Thanks Ryan, yes after further self educating(I'm a newbie to this) I think it is best just to follow through with filing both I-130 forms wait for response to that and the carry on with the cr-1 cr-2 route, the time differenc doesn't seem worth the hassle or money.

Thanks again for your response!!

[Hilario 13]

You can get the copy made by the US embassy.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/fw7.pdf

Proving your "foreign status" or “identity.” If you submit an

original valid passport (or a certified copy from the issuing

agency), you do not need to submit any other documents to

prove your “foreign status” or “identity.” Otherwise, you must

submit at least two of the documents listed in the chart below.

The documents must be current*, verify your identity (that is,

contain your name), and support your claim of foreign status. At

least one document must contain your photograph, but a

photograph is not required if documents are submitted for a

dependent under age 14 (under age 18 if a student). Do not

attach expired documents.

Note. Certified copies from the issuing agency of a passport

must include the U.S. visa pages if a visa is required for your

Form W-7 application.

*Current original documents are:

Civil birth certificates—since civil birth certificates do not

contain an expiration date, they are considered current at all

times.

Passports and national identification cards—these documents

will be considered current only if their expiration date has not

passed prior to the date the Form W-7 is submitted.

My wife is going to Manila to update her passport and I asked her to invesitgate how to get a certified copy of her passport. She is going Feb. 12th I will let you know what she finds out.

Good Luck!

[shira 4]

w-7 id coming from china - IMO, the 'least ambiguous' of all, is a notarized copy of the bio page of the passport, notarized by a vice consul at a us embassy / consulate in china, gotten during ACS appointment. ya pay 50 bucks. I've written about this a bit - use advanced search tool - search term = 'chengdu' - Member Name 'Darnell', click on 'Display as posts'

I don't know if this procedure is acceptable under the new rules. According to the IRS:

"Have the officers at U.S. Embassies and Consulates overseas provide certification and authentication services."

My wife lives in Chengdu, and we went to the U.S. Chengdu Consulate to obtain my "marriageability certificate." I asked at that time if the consulate could authenticate or certify documents. And the officer told me that the only document service they provide is "notarization." I don't think that's enough under the new IRS rules.

But I have another question: I can't use my wife's passport because I'd have to get it from her, and she'd be without it for at least three months (and she'll need it for her visa interview). However, I do have her notarial birth certificate (we had two made up) and her national ID card (she has two). The combination of a "civil birth certificate" and a national ID card is acceptable under the new IRS rules. However, the requirement is for either original documents or a "copy certified by the issuing agency." So here's the question:

Is a notarial birth certificate considered an "original document?" And if not, is it considered a "copy certified by the issuing agency?"

Thanks

Edited February 7, 2013 by shira

[Pw3t 6]

Last year, we wanted to file our first tax return even though my husband (the USC) didn't make any money at all. We read on internet that it was possible to file even if the income is 0 so we did in order to prepare things for the i-864. We did everything correctly for the ITIN and W7 and we received the packet back from the IRS with a letter explaining that since there was no income, they couldn't accept our file. So then we gave up, at least this letter will be a proof that we tried

[speedwell 224]

Check to see whether your spouse, like mine, holds dual citizenship and two passports. We are filing immigration paperwork based on his being a UK citizen, and he is actually in the UK, so he needs to hang on to his UK passport. But we're sending his (original) Irish passport to the IRS! I've run this by three top-class CPAs, two of which handle immigrant cases, so I know it's a solid idea. They said it was "clever", lol.

Pw3t, I'm hoping that as I am the USC with the job and my husband is the UKC without income to declare, we will not be turned down. I don't think your case was handled properly, by the way; it would be worth checking into so you can get your refund that you are entitled to (though this is not without cost).

Edited February 7, 2013 by speedwell

[The Mean Lady 604]

I don't know if this procedure is acceptable under the new rules. According to the IRS:

"Have the officers at U.S. Embassies and Consulates overseas provide certification and authentication services."

My wife lives in Chengdu, and we went to the U.S. Chengdu Consulate to obtain my "marriageability certificate." I asked at that time if the consulate could authenticate or certify documents. And the officer told me that the only document service they provide is "notarization." I don't think that's enough under the new IRS rules.

But I have another question: I can't use my wife's passport because I'd have to get it from her, and she'd be without it for at least three months (and she'll need it for her visa interview). However, I do have her notarial birth certificate (we had two made up) and her national ID card (she has two). The combination of a "civil birth certificate" and a national ID card is acceptable under the new IRS rules. However, the requirement is for either original documents or a "copy certified by the issuing agency." So here's the question:

Is a notarial birth certificate considered an "original document?" And if not, is it considered a "copy certified by the issuing agency?"

Thanks

That is precisely what darnell suggested.

Also, no, a notarized birth certificate means nothing.

Because it insinuates that you're making a copy of the original and having a joe-schmo notary stamp it.

The original is the very first original document your parents signed in the hospital.

Good luck getting that in your hands, I don't think that's normal to give people.

Anytime you order a birth certificate from the county health dept/clerk/whatevs they give you a certified copy with fancy crimping stamps.

Your wife can go to the US embassy as darnell suggested and get a copy "notarizing" or "certified" by THEM.

Only they are allowed to do it.

Pw3t, I'm hoping that as I am the USC with the job and my husband is the UKC without income to declare, we will not be turned down. I don't think your case was handled properly, by the way; it would be worth checking into so you can get your refund that you are entitled to (though this is not without cost).

Turned down for what?

My CAN husband is on my taxes with no income.

Edited February 7, 2013 by KDH

[speedwell 224]

That is precisely what darnell suggested.

Also, no, a notarized birth certificate means nothing.

Because it insinuates that you're making a copy of the original and having a joe-schmo notary stamp it.

The original is the very first original document your parents signed in the hospital.

Good luck getting that in your hands, I don't think that's normal to give people.

Anytime you order a birth certificate from the county health dept/clerk/whatevs they give you a certified copy with fancy crimping stamps.

Your wife can go to the US embassy as darnell suggested and get a copy "notarizing" or "certified" by THEM.

Only they are allowed to do it.

Turned down for what?

My CAN husband is on my taxes with no income.

Turned down for the ITIN, as Pw3t stated. They do sometimes refuse to give one. I don't have any real expectation this will happen to us, to be candid.

And as far as a "notarial birth certificate," if it came from the agency that issues birth certificates, and it is officially stamped or sealed or signed, and is either a facsimile copy (an actual copy of the record page or the original certificate) or a "true copy" typed up from the information in the record by the agency, then it is a certified copy from the issuing agency.

[The Mean Lady 604]

Turned down for the ITIN, as Pw3t stated. They do sometimes refuse to give one. I don't have any real expectation this will happen to us, to be candid.

And as far as a "notarial birth certificate," if it came from the agency that issues birth certificates, and it is officially stamped or sealed or signed, and is either a facsimile copy (an actual copy of the record page or the original certificate) or a "true copy" typed up from the information in the record by the agency, then it is a certified copy from the issuing agency.

They denied my ITIN for 2010.

For ridiculous reasons.

Firstly, I read incorrectly that the passport copy needed to be notarized.

No problem. I noticed halfway through WAAAIIITING and sent it in.

Then, almost 2 months later, they finally send me a letter of denial.

I call up and lady says my notary stamp was expired.

Stamped in 2011, stamp expires in 2014.

Same notary. Same stamp in 2012 for 2011 taxes, got my ITIN, filed an amended return.

Ridiculous.

[speedwell 224]

They denied my ITIN for 2010.

For ridiculous reasons.

Firstly, I read incorrectly that the passport copy needed to be notarized.

No problem. I noticed halfway through WAAAIIITING and sent it in.

Then, almost 2 months later, they finally send me a letter of denial.

I call up and lady says my notary stamp was expired.

Stamped in 2011, stamp expires in 2014.

Same notary. Same stamp in 2012 for 2011 taxes, got my ITIN, filed an amended return.

Ridiculous.

Bureaucracy. I know. Which is worse, the USCIS or the IRS? Anyone? Anyone? Didn't think so.