Filing jointly

[Hilario 13]

I am married to my foreign filipino spouse and I am a USC, We are going through the process of I-130 and K3 K4 visa, k4 for her son my stepson, has anyone tried filing for a ITIN for their income tax filing jointly?

thank you

[The Mean Lady 604]

Yes. Many many of us.

You can either file separately and write NRA in place of her soc sec number.

Otherwise submit the W7 with the returns and include the proper documentation of identity.

Either way, you will file a paper return.

Good Luck.

[Hilario 13]

Yes. Many many of us.

You can either file separately and write NRA in place of her soc sec number.

Otherwise submit the W7 with the returns and include the proper documentation of identity.

Either way, you will file a paper return.

Good Luck.

KDH YOUR AWESOME

Thanks for the quick response !!!!

[Ryan H 3,812]

I am married to my foreign filipino spouse and I am a USC, We are going through the process of I-130 and K3 K4 visa, k4 for her son my stepson, has anyone tried filing for a ITIN for their income tax filing jointly?

thank you

Did you file two I-130 forms (one for your wife and the other for your stepson)? If so, then it's CR-1 and CR-2 visas that are being sought.

[Hilario 13]

Did you file two I-130 forms (one for your wife and the other for your stepson)? If so, then it's CR-1 and CR-2 visas that are being sought.

I was under the assumption it was faster to get them here in the US if I file k3 k4 visa. She is pregnant with our child and also we have a 10 yr old son, my stepson, could you explain why it's better filing for a cr-1 cr-2 thanks

[sandlerkia 0]

I am married to my foreign filipino spouse and I am a USC, We are going through the process of I-130 and K3 K4 visa, k4 for her son my stepson, has anyone tried filing for a ITIN for their income tax filing jointly?

Yes. Many many of us.

You can either file separately and write NRA in place of her soc sec number.

Otherwise submit the W7 with the returns and include the proper documentation of identity.

Either way, you will file a paper return.

Good Luck.

[Darnell 8,478]

can't get a K-4 without corresponding I-130 on the child.

[Hilario 13]

can't get a K-4 without corresponding I-130 on the child.

yes that was my intention to file a I-130 for both, my question to Ryan was why the cr-1,cr-2 instead of k3 k4?

[shira 4]

Yes. Many many of us.

You can either file separately and write NRA in place of her soc sec number.

Otherwise submit the W7 with the returns and include the proper documentation of identity.

Either way, you will file a paper return.

Good Luck.

My understanding is that without a W7 with proper documentation (and no existing ITIN), the tax return will be rejected. The rules for ITINs were made much, much more strict in June of 2012, and I'm not aware of any exceptions for NRAs. In fact, to file jointly with an NRA spouse (as I'm intending to do) one must include an attachment to the tax return stating that the NRA chooses to be treated as a Resident Alien for tax purposes. I don't think it's possible to file a joint tax return with an NRA spouse unless the choice is made to treat the NRA spouse as a resident for tax purposes. And if this choice is made, an ITIN is required.

Here is a quotation from IRS publication 54. I've bolded the relevant sections:

Pub 54

Nonresident Alien Spouse Treated as a Resident

If, at the end of your tax year, you are married and one spouse is a U.S. citizen or a resident alien and the other is a nonresident alien, you can choose to treat the nonresident as a U.S. resident. This includes situations in which one of you is a nonresident alien at the beginning of the tax year and a resident alien at the end of the year and the other is a nonresident alien at the end of the year.

If you make this choice, the following two rules apply.

You and your spouse are treated, for income tax purposes, as residents for all tax years that the choice is in effect.

You must file a joint income tax return for the year you make the choice.

This means that neither of you can claim under any tax treaty not to be a U.S. resident for a tax year for which the choice is in effect.

You can file joint or separate returns in years after the year in which you make the choice.

Social Security Number (SSN)

If you choose to treat your nonresident alien spouse as a U.S. resident, your spouse must have either an SSN or an individual taxpayer identification number (ITIN).

To get an SSN for a nonresident alien spouse, apply at an office of the U.S. Social Security Administration (SSA) or U.S. consulate. You must complete Form SS-5, Application for a Social Security Card, available at www.socialsecurity.gov or by calling 1-800-772-1213. You must also provide original or certified copies of documents to verify that spouse's age, identity, and citizenship.

If the nonresident alien spouse is not eligible to get an SSN, he or she can file Form W-7, Application for IRS Individual Taxpayer Identification Number, with the IRS to apply for an ITIN.

How To Make the Choice

Attach a statement, signed by both spouses, to your joint return for the first tax year for which the choice applies. It should contain the following:

A declaration that one spouse was a nonresident alien and the other spouse a U.S. citizen or resident alien on the last day of your tax year and that you choose to be treated as U.S. residents for the entire tax year, and

The name, address, and social security number (or individual taxpayer identification number) of each spouse. (If one spouse died, include the name and address of the person making the choice for the deceased spouse.)

You generally make this choice when you file your joint return. However, you also can make the choice by filing a joint amended return on Form 1040X. Attach Form 1040, 1040A, or 1040EZ and print “Amended” across the top of the amended return. If you make the choice with an amended return, you and your spouse also must amend any returns that you may have filed after the year for which you made the choice.

You generally must file the amended joint return within 3 years from the date you filed your original U.S. income tax return or 2 years from the date you paid your income tax for that year, whichever is later.

[Ryan H 3,812]

I was under the assumption it was faster to get them here in the US if I file k3 k4 visa. She is pregnant with our child and also we have a 10 yr old son, my stepson, could you explain why it's better filing for a cr-1 cr-2 thanks

I'll restate what I said earlier, if all you file were two I-130 forms, then the visas that will your wife and stepson will ultimatley being applying for will be CR-1 and CR-2 respectively.

Your assumption is incorrect. To start the K3, the I-130 must be filed first, once you have the NOA1 for the I-130, you subsequently file the I-129F. Depending on where your I-130 ends up, it could be pulled out of it's place in the queue and placed with the I-129F that was just submitted. If the files are matched, then they are usually adjudicated at the same time. If they are approved, then they are usually sent to the NVC at the same time, if both petitions arrive at the NVC at the same time or if the I-130 arrives first, then the I-129F filed to start the K3 process will be administratively closed.

Save yourself some troble and just file the two I-130 petitions (unless your I-130 ends up at the USCIS field off in Atlanta).

[The Mean Lady 604]

My understanding is that without a W7 with proper documentation (and no existing ITIN), the tax return will be rejected. The rules for ITINs were made much, much more strict in June of 2012, and I'm not aware of any exceptions for NRAs. In fact, to file jointly with an NRA spouse (as I'm intending to do) one must include an attachment to the tax return stating that the NRA chooses to be treated as a Resident Alien for tax purposes. I don't think it's possible to file a joint tax return with an NRA spouse unless the choice is made to treat the NRA spouse as a resident for tax purposes. And if this choice is made, an ITIN is required.

Here is a quotation from IRS publication 54. I've bolded the relevant sections:

Pub 54

in the portion of my quote that youve chosen to bold, ive stated to write nra for filing separately

the non usc is not used for tax purposes when filing separately

doing so only files you properly for classification purposes

an itin is not required for separate filing.

[shira 4]

in the portion of my quote that youve chosen to bold, ive stated to write nra for filing separately

the non usc is not used for tax purposes when filing separately

doing so only files you properly for classification purposes

an itin is not required for separate filing.

Ah, sorry about that. I saw the thread title - "Filing Jointly" and missed the first part of your sentence.

But here's another, related question for filing jointly:

Under the new IRS rules, the requirements for documents needed to prove identity and foreign status have gotten very strict. The IRS now wants to see either ORIGINAL documents or copies "certified by the agency that issued the original document." My wife obtained two copies of her birth certificate, certified by her local notarial office. She has one of them, which she'll be taking to her visa interview. I have the other one, and I've been hoping it's acceptable for applying for an ITIN. My question is: Is a Chinese notarial birth certificate acceptable as proof of identity under the new ITIN rules?

[MGRD 5]

My understanding is that without a W7 with proper documentation (and no existing ITIN), the tax return will be rejected. The rules for ITINs were made much, much more strict in June of 2012, and I'm not aware of any exceptions for NRAs. In fact, to file jointly with an NRA spouse (as I'm intending to do) one must include an attachment to the tax return stating that the NRA chooses to be treated as a Resident Alien for tax purposes. I don't think it's possible to file a joint tax return with an NRA spouse unless the choice is made to treat the NRA spouse as a resident for tax purposes. And if this choice is made, an ITIN is required.

Here is a quotation from IRS publication 54. I've bolded the relevant sections:

Pub 54

if you are supposed to file the return with the statement including the NRA spouse's ssn/ITIN and W-7 asks that the return be sent with the forms of Identification, how do you make the election? Do you do it without the NRA spouse's ssn/itin?

[The Mean Lady 604]

if you are supposed to file the return with the statement including the NRA spouse's ssn/ITIN and W-7 asks that the return be sent with the forms of Identification, how do you make the election? Do you do it without the NRA spouse's ssn/itin?

no election is made with filing separately

when filing joint you include a latter signed by both parties stating the election

[MGRD 5]

no election is made with filing separately

when filing joint you include a latter signed by both parties stating the election

The name, address, and social security number (or individual taxpayer identification number) of each spouse. (If one spouse died, include the name and address of the person making the choice for the deceased spouse.)(per the instructions)

I want to file jointly otherwise I will have to pay

Edited February 5, 2013 by MGRD