Prenup agreement discussion

[BeachMusic 8]

Just want to throw in my 2 cents. Me and my fiance have known each other for a few years now (I was in the US for 5-6 years), we're still quite young (I would like to think so), around 25-ish and we don't know that many people who've gotten divorced. All the relationships we have seen fall apart weren't surprising, there was something very obviously wrong from the very beginning (atleast it was obvious to us).

I would understand a prenup, if my to-be-husband was really rich, but both of us have a similar background, education levels, comfort levels in our own countries, and if I wanted to come to the US I wouldn't need to marry anybody for that. I wouldn't really understand the need of a pre-nup in our case because when I go to the US, I will eventually probably be making a similar amount of money as my fiance (once i can work there).

I wouldn't freak out at a discussion of a prenup, but some people tend to overreact at things (as you said its just a personality thing). We've never thought of a prenup, but i know both of us would be disappointed at the idea if the other one brought it up. It would kind of kill the romance for me, atleast for a little while. I dont even see any of my american friends ever really being too much in favor of a pre-nup. But they're also my age and maybe we're too naive ? . I know in the next few years we're going to see some divorces and opinions are going to change.

But for now, I want it to be all butterflies and rainbows. However dumb it sounds. Dont want a prenup harshening my buzz. (I have a feeling I'm going to get a lot of flak for this )

On the other hand, I dont think there's anything wrong with a pre-nup if you want one (esp given your prior experience) as long as its fair and it protects both parties. And given the kind of things I read on this forum, its probably a very good idea. I just get, why someone wouldn't want it also, and how someone can feel that it just shouldnt be complicated and contractual. Don't think its a a western vs. eastern mindset thing only.

If this the only red flag you see or is there something else also?

Edited February 4, 2013 by BeachMusic

[aaron2020 11,651]

If signing the I-864 is a trust issue... then don't get married. Seriously, it means that the USC doesn't know the person enough. I think divorce is a totally different issue, because MANY things can happen. And it is not a matter of having one person marrying the other for money... It is just that divorce can get nasty and one can try to hurt the other with every possible way...

But if : 1) USC thinks that the foreign fiancé intention is jus ask for divorce after AOS or ROC... and keep being a fincancial charge to the USC... then don't get married!

2) if it is really a problem to help out someone who left his/her country for USC, left familly and friends behind, in the case it doesn't work out between the USC and that person... If it is even an issue, the USC should wonder if he is even in love...

I would be so upset if my fiancé was bringing this up... I am letting everything I have behind me to be with him. THIS requires trust. If it doesn't work, I'll be far from my friends, familly, I will have sacrifice a lot, to be alone in a country I don't know, possibly with no job, or a job less good than the one that I would have had home (because of language, diploma, etc)...

edit to add: Divorcing in your home country is life shaking. But you still have your life, your familly, chilhood and college friends, etc. Divorcing when you gave up your life for that marriage... imagine what it could feel like...

I think the I-864 is just as important a risk (or maybe not even) for the USC as leaving home is for the foreign fiancé. There is balance in this. Nothing to do with the pre-nup matter

Besides, this is not a question of who is right or wrong. This is just important that the OP gets the cultural keys to be able to communicate with his fiancée on the subject. However it ends, I hope it will feel like a win-win situation for them, cause this would probably be a better start for their mariage.

So the US citizen must make a financial commitment to the K-1, and the k-1 provides no assurance That she will not take everything if there is a divorce?

How is a one sided solution where the K-1 gets all the protection and the US citizen get none a win-win situation?

The OP's fiancée is not even willing to discuss his concerns. How is that going to work long term in a marriage? She pouts like a baby and refuses to discuss his concerns is not going to create a healthy marriage.

Your solution will be great for you in case of a divorce. Your husband will have his family and friends. You will have all his money and his house. I guess that's fair to you for leaving your family and friends. Guess you'll never use his money to go see them again.

I say all this sarcastically to prove my point. All is good when you are in love. Things can end badly when only one spouse is protected and the other is not when that live ends.

Wouldn't it be fair if both had some protection in case of a divorce?

If there is no divorce, then it's just a piece if paper. So what's the problem with the US citizen getting a little protection?

Edited February 4, 2013 by aaron2020

[thinkerlove0212 158]

You must also explain that she is able to chose her own attorney also for her protection and that if there is a divorce she doesnt lose "everything".

[aaron2020 11,651]

I agree with you, not all filipina will be happy about it. There are two kinds of filipina and there are two possible reasons.

First cos they will feel offended and feel that you don't love them, feel that all this time you see her same as the other girls who only married the foreign guy cos of money not because of love.

Secondly, SOME Filipina will flip out not because they got offended but because of the fear that they won't get anything from their husband. I can honestly say that a lot of Filipina are gold diggers and social climbers but NOT ALL of them.

Like me, I don't mind if my husband and I get a prenup stating I will not have anything even a cent from him as long as he will send me back to PH and have him support our child/children. This is just an example cos WE WILL NOT divorce lol. It is only natural for any woman to flip out or be angry in her first reaction cos she's offended, hurt and feel like not loved, betrayed and not being trusted by her husband. I suggest you just give her some time like a day or two to contemplate on the situation, she might change her mind soon and no longer be upset about it. I am like that, but if not uhmm..it's the other way around, maybe she's upset cos she's worried she will not get anything from you. It's up to you

Once you get a green card, he can't send you back. Even I you divorce, you can petition to do a ROC and get US citizenship.

You can get child support and spousal support.

You could also choose to return to your country.

So what is the K-1 giving up permanently? Nothing.

Also, it is not natural for any woman to flip out and be angry when a man brings up a prenup. My sister brought up the subject with her husband. I know plenty of women who don't flip out an get angry.

You bring up that she might be worry that she might not get anything from him. Why is that a problem if they don't divorce? What does she loose by signing the prenup if they never divorce? Also, why is she concern that she would get nothing from him in a divorce? I thought she wants him and not his money? So now she wants something? If she wants something more than him, what does that say about her? Why should he blindly trust her when she is worry that she will not get anything from him in case of a divorce?

[del-2-5-2014 1,339]

Just time and emotionally...seriously just average wagearner here...maybe a little better than average...like 45k a year...I see it as insurance,u dont buy insurance hoping you will use it...but just in case something does...u have some protection...I was previously married so i know what CAN happen in a divorce..not that it will happen

Dude, stick to your guns. If that is amongst your must haves then don't negotiate. Though I wish that it would've been brought up much sooner in the relationship.

[CajunKitty 8]

I'm a Filipina and I don't mind signing a prenup, infact my husband wants to add me to his bank account but I refused and told him that I wanted to open a new joint account..

[aaron2020 11,651]

Just want to throw in my 2 cents. Me and my fiance have known each other for a few years now (I was in the US for 5-6 years), we're still quite young (I would like to think so), around 25-ish and we don't know that many people who've gotten divorced. All the relationships we have seen fall apart weren't surprising, there was something very obviously wrong from the very beginning (atleast it was obvious to us).

I would understand a prenup, if my to-be-husband was really rich, but both of us have a similar background, education levels, comfort levels in our own countries, and if I wanted to come to the US I wouldn't need to marry anybody for that. I wouldn't really understand the need of a pre-nup in our case because when I go to the US, I will eventually probably be making a similar amount of money as my fiance (once i can work there).

I wouldn't freak out at a discussion of a prenup, but some people tend to overreact at things (as you said its just a personality thing). We've never thought of a prenup, but i know both of us would be disappointed at the idea if the other one brought it up. It would kind of kill the romance for me, atleast for a little while. I dont even see any of my american friends ever really being too much in favor of a pre-nup. But they're also my age and maybe we're too naive ? . I know in the next few years we're going to see some divorces and opinions are going to change.

But for now, I want it to be all butterflies and rainbows. However dumb it sounds. Dont want a prenup harshening my buzz. (I have a feeling I'm going to get a lot of flak for this )

On the other hand, I dont think there's anything wrong with a pre-nup if you want one (esp given your prior experience) as long as its fair and it protects both parties. And given the kind of things I read on this forum, its probably a very good idea. I just get, why someone wouldn't want it also, and how someone can feel that it just shouldnt be complicated and contractual. Don't think its a a western vs. eastern mindset thing only.

If this the only red flag you see or is there something else also?

Until you are see what divorce does to you or your friends, you will not understand.

At your age, people tend to have few assets and hardly know of the consequences of divorce.

Wait unto you and your friends work years to accumulate some assets, then see all those years of hard work go down the drain when there is a divorce.

I have plenty of friends who had very good lives when they were married. Nice homes. Nice cars.

After the divorce, all they have are lots of legal bills, a small rented apartment, and spending middle age living like they did when thy first got out of college with debts and money.

You don't know what you haven't experience. For those of us who have those experiences, we wish we could go back in time to get the prenup to protect ourselves.

Been there. Done that. Not going to lose my house again in a second divorce.

Edited February 4, 2013 by aaron2020

[BeachMusic 8]

Thats exactly my point. As i said "I know in the next few years we're going to see some divorces and opinions are going to change. "

I'm just trying to say there are other reasons why people wont want a prenup than just wanting to scam someone.

Until you are see what divorce does to you or your friends, you will not understand.

At your age, people tend to have few assets and hardly know of the consequences of divorce.

Wait unto you and your friends work years to accurate some assets, then see all those years I hard work go down the drain when there is a divorce.

I have plenty of friends who had very good lives when they were married. Nice homes. Nice cars.

After the divorce, all they have are lots of legal bills, a small rented apartment, and spending middle age living like they did when thy first got out of college with debts and money.

You don't know what you haven't experience. For those of us who have those experiences, we wish we could go back in time to get the prenup to protect ourselves.

Been there. Done that. Not going to lose my house again in a second divorce.

[Grant PDX 183]

No one gets married planning for divorce, but many couples do get divorced, that is the reality. I was married. I never planned to get divorced. By my now ex (filipina) wanted to leave after she met a boyfriend after 5 years of marriage.

I now have 2 little boys. And a fiancee I love very much. My number one goal is to protect the future of my two boys. My other number one goal is to have a successful happy life with my future wife.

But nobody knows what the future holds. If, at some point in the future, we decide to get divorced it's very possible that one or both of us could be extremely hurt and/or angry. Right now we are very much in love. Isn't now a better time to hammer out what we would do IF we were ever to separate? If we are hurting or angry in the future, we could have a very painful, expensive, and time consuming divorce. The only winner would be the attorneys. Since we are happy and in love right now, isn't now a good time to have a reasonable discussion about what we would do if the unfortunate happens in the future? Right now we would give each other the world. Let's get that down in an agreement, so if the worst happens, we at least know that we have some pieces of a divorce already settled, at a time when we loved each other and hopefully were very fair with each other.

I have proposed a prenup to my fiancee. She was ok with having that discussion. I spoke with an attorney who will help me write up a prenuptual agreement. I am asking that it be a very two sided document. After my fiancee arrives in the US we (she) will hire an attorney for her and I hope we can nail down a very fair agreement, that will never ever be used. But if that unfortunate thing happens one day, at least we have an agreement written when we were very much in love as the basis for any other proceedings. I think that is a very good place to start.

My two cents.

Edited February 4, 2013 by Grant PDX

[StephAnn2012 50]

I dont have a lot of money at all...I do and did trust her....but like i said a huge red flag to me...especially to not even discuss it....but i have my reasons to think about bringing it up to her...previously married so i have experienced it...and it is worst thing on earth.I know she is taking a big risk to come here with her son ,but im taking a big risk too,and have invested hugely in time,money and emotionally.I know its not an easy topic,but thought it was best to talk with her about it BEFORE starting the visa...prevent...i seriously think it is best of me to disscuss now then when she comes here so she can decide for herself what to do.

Pre-nups by definition are a preparation document to determine what happens to assets when a divorce happens. They are distasteful, difficult, cynical in nature and are best left to those with large assets they need to protect for business purposes. You say her reaction is a big red flag to you, yet you have very little to protect from loss. It seems to me that you are less worried about a protection of asset question and more worried that she is the one person you wish to spend the rest of your life with.

My suggestion is to take more time to get to know her. Take time to go and see her again and let your feelings sort themselves as you grow to trust her motives and as she grows to trust yours.

You are dealing with something far more valuable than a few dollars here. Three people's lives will be changed as a result of your marriage. An innocent child's life will be forever changed by the move to America. Please think about the relationship and learning to trust each other and I bet the issue of a pre-nup will take care of itself.

Best wishes to you,

[aaron2020 11,651]

No one gets married planning for divorce, but many couples do get divorced, that is the reality. I was married. I never planned to get divorced. By my now ex (filipina) wanted to leave after she met a boyfriend after 5 years of marriage.

I now have 2 little boys. And a fiancee I love very much. My number one goal is to protect the future of my two boys. My other number one goal is to have a successful happy life with my future wife.

But nobody knows what the future holds. If, at some point in the future, we decide to get divorced it's very possible that one or both of us could be extremely hurt and/or angry. Right now we are very much in love. Isn't now a better time to hammer out what we would do IF we were ever to separate? If we are hurting or angry in the future, we could have a very painful, expensive, and time consuming divorce. The only winner would be the attorneys. Since we are happy and in love right now, isn't now a good time to have a reasonable discussion about what we would do if the unfortunate happens in the future? Right now we would give each other the world. Let's get that down in an agreement, so if the worst happens, we at least know that we have some pieces of a divorce already settled, at a time when we loved each other and hopefully were very fair with each other.

I have proposed a prenup to my fiancee. She was ok with having that discussion. I spoke with an attorney who will help me write up a prenuptual agreement. I am asking that it be a very two sided document. After my fiancee arrives in the US we (she) will hire an attorney for her and I hope we can nail down a very fair agreement, that will never ever be used. But if that unfortunate thing happens one day, at least we have an agreement written when we were very much in love as the basis for any other proceedings. I think that is a very good place to start.

My two cents.

What??? Discuss the issue like two reasonable adults?

Get outta here.

Thank you for your post on how adults should act in a marriage.

Communicate. Communicate. Communicate.

Pouting like a child and refusing to discuss the issue shows a lack of respect for your partner and a lack of respect for communication. If you are not willing to discuss your concerns in a reasonable manner, how is the marriage going to fare?

How childish to say - I don't care about your concerns. I have no desire to discuss them. It's my way only.

Edited February 4, 2013 by aaron2020

[Brandon and Sugar 8]

Once you get a green card, he can't send you back. Even I you divorce, you can petition to do a ROC and get US citizenship.

You can get child support and spousal support.

You could also choose to return to your country.

So what is the K-1 giving up permanently? Nothing.

Also, it is not natural for any woman to flip out and be angry when a man brings up a prenup. My sister brought up the subject with her husband. I know plenty of women who don't flip out an get angry.

You bring up that she might be worry that she might not get anything from him. Why is that a problem if they don't divorce? What does she loose by signing the prenup if they never divorce? Also, why is she concern that she would get nothing from him in a divorce? I thought she wants him and not his money? So now she wants something? If she wants something more than him, what does that say about her? Why should he blindly trust her when she is worry that she will not get anything from him in case of a divorce?

I know about the GC thing and yes I can return to my country anytime I wish (I know that, thank you for paraphrasing the comment I posted), if you think it is not normal then that's your opinion:)

I also know a lot of woman who didn't flipped out when their husband brought that issue up and I am one of those woman who will certainly not be upset about it cos I am open minded and doesn't care about his property. I only care about our beautiful relationship and having a wonderful life with him. I'm just saying that not all people are open minded about it that some people need to understand the cultural differences as well as how each people view things such as divorce and prenups.

[Xanax 349]

I personally would have been offended if my husband had proposed a pre-nup but that was before I understood that it could be beneficial to both of us. Maybe your fiancee just doesn't understand that.

A pre-nup can be mutually beneficial and ensure she is not left with nothing or vice versa. This is a topic that needs to be talked about and fleshed out fully. Not everyone understands how a pre-nup can work and if we went by only what we saw on TV, we would believe a prenup was/is basically to ensure the wife gets screwed out of anything if she divorces her husband.

[Flaxen 2]

This is my opinion,

I am Filipina, It is an insult for me if my future husband will tell me that.. It is not our TRADITION or CUSTOM to have a Prenup. My husband and I dont have prenup, When I got here, I work. I assured him if things dont work for us, I would rather send back home. I told him He dont need to worry of me taking of what he owns. Filipina and American Women are different! I assured you that! So dont you worry about it..

My fiance and I discussed this. He's American and in his culture (a litigious one) that is a good discussion to have. We talked it through and came to some agreement about what we would do if in the first couple of years one of us died.. and what would we want for our families... His accountant strongly suggested a pre-nup and I can understand why. Having the conversation should not be an issue. As long as no-one is demanding anything rather the topic is on the table and being discussed. Kinda suggests that in that relationship some topics can't even be tabled! That would worry me.. is demanding in its own sense. Tread carefully.

[rm love dc 10]

The other day after my fiance sent the paperwork he also asked me if i will sign a pre-nup agreement. I was quite offended and insulted but i said "yes" because it is not what he has that i want, it is who he is that i love. Some Filipinas are not open-minded about it because we have different culture, most of us knows that when you get married everything each other have will be shared together.

I suggest that you talk it over and know her well.