Prenup agreement discussion

[erynaught 43]

Prenuptial agreements are a complete waste of time for most the vast majority of us. They are not routinely accepted by American Courts. Considering the relationships on this forum, it would be relatively trivial for a decent lawyer to argue that your foreign-born spouse didn't fully grasp what she was signing ... and have it thrown of out divorce proceedings.

If you have sizeable assets prior to marriage, a blind trust or some other estate contract is much more secure and binding.

I have children from a previous marriage and a niece I have taken under my wing when my brother died much too young. After divorcing my previous wife, I set up a blind trust to manage some investments for their care in the event I can no longer work prior to their turning 18yo as well as college education is there is enough in that kitty. The trust also covers any further issue from me.

My retirement assets prior to marrying my current wife benefit the above blind trust in the event of my premature death. However, I fully expect to live and retire with my current wife and we will live off those proceeds then. All current income, investments and property are jointly owned and I would expect her to receive roughly half in the event of a divorce.

Sure, we had plenty of discussion on this prior to marriage ... but I wasn't asking her to make any decisions as I had set this up several years before meeting her. No insult. No worries. She knows that she and all the children will be well cared for.

Not wanting to discuss scenario planning and 'what if' kinda situations in your future woul be the biggest red flag to me. I broke it off with a filipina precisely because she refused to discuss things like how to handle emergency medical situations, funeral wishes, etc., etc. My dad died leaving NO will and NO instructions and it was royal pain in the a** sorting out the details and listening to the bickering between my aunts, his gf and everyone else.

[Caryh 5,206]

Quite honestly, this is a very intrusive personal question which has nothing whatsoever to do with the OP's question.

What can happen in divorce is relevant to the OP's question. And the person who the question was to, which was not you, brought up the situation of growing up with an economically troubled family after divorce, which lead to the question. Seems to me the oil man should not have had to go threatening the biological father for money for a tank of oil so they could have heat. Personally I'm all for fair divorce laws and parents paying support, so prenups are not needed. Its unfair divorce laws that allow some to take advantage of their former partner, that creates the need for prenups. The OP may not be aware of the current divorce laws in his state, and may be under a wrong assumption that he may need a prenup.

[erynaught 43]

Maybe I don't understand the details, but I thought the only way the USC could be relieved of the I-864 obligation was:

1) Death of affiant (USC)

2) Death of beneficiary (foreign fiance)

3) Beneficiary becoming USC

4) Beneficiary leaving the US

5) Beneficiary accumulates 40 quarterly credits within SS, essentially 10yrs of full-time work (either fiance or USC spouse)

As far as I understand it, divorce does not discharge the obligation. Even if fiance receives alimony/child support, if fiance receives any federal needs-based public assistance, US Government can sue the affiant for reimbursement.

I always thought the I-864 was iron clad.

Am I missing anything?

[N-o-l-a 7,168]

What can happen in divorce is relevant to the OP's question. And the person who the question was to, which was not you, brought up the situation of growing up with an economically troubled family after divorce, which lead to the question. Seems to me the oil man should not have had to go threatening the biological father for money for a tank of oil so they could have heat. Personally I'm all for fair divorce laws and parents paying support, so prenups are not needed. Its unfair divorce laws that allow some to take advantage of their former partner, that creates the need for prenups. The OP may not be aware of the current divorce laws in his state, and may be under a wrong assumption that he may need a prenup.

What happened with child support laws of the 1980s isn't really applicable today. They were much more difficult to enforce then and this is when they were legally separated and I'm not sure they had child support then for that. I don't know. *shrugs* At the end of the day, his actions came back to bite him and at a certain point he and his wife were paying child support on 5 kids, none of whom they had any custody of.

I can tell you that it can be hard to get a fair amount out of child support even in 2013. My ex-husband got his MS in physics about 4 years ago and is doing a PhD. Do you know how much he pays a month in child support? $200. When the little one needed to go to daycare so I could go back to school, her daycare was $280/week. Luckily I had my mother and my ex-boyfriend to help me out...but women do suffer in divorces and single parenthood is very difficult financially.

[Kiv 32]

Prenup agreement? My Filipina fiancée flipped out when I brought it up.wont even discuss it now. This throws up a huge red flag as we start visa process.Any thoughts?

I think the best is communication, don't take it so bad on her if she flipped; there may be stereotypes in her culture in regards to pre-nups.

Maybe when she understands that a lawyer has to review it with her ammend it if necessary to be fair for both of you, she will not feel so scared and offended by it.

[Caryh 5,206]

What happened with child support laws of the 1980s isn't really applicable today. They were much more difficult to enforce then and this is when they were legally separated and I'm not sure they had child support then for that. I don't know. *shrugs* At the end of the day, his actions came back to bite him and at a certain point he and his wife were paying child support on 5 kids, none of whom they had any custody of.

I can tell you that it can be hard to get a fair amount out of child support even in 2013. My ex-husband got his MS in physics about 4 years ago and is doing a PhD. Do you know how much he pays a month in child support? $200. When the little one needed to go to daycare so I could go back to school, her daycare was $280/week. Luckily I had my mother and my ex-boyfriend to help me out...but women do suffer in divorces and single parenthood is very difficult financially.

I'm glad a little karma came back to bite him. He should have been looking out for his children (you), I don't understand parents that shirk that obligation. I know it was easier to get away with not paying child support in the past. My own father left and never paid a penny to, but that was even earlier in time As to the fairness of the amounts, I've seen that blade fall both ways, but on average I think women end up loosing economic ground in divorce more often than men do. I'm glad my state overhauled the system and put fairness into it. Some one with high income, that has the child most of the time, could actually pay support to a very low income person that has the child less of the time. The courts here have the default assumption of the child spending half the time with each parent and joint custody in all divorces, unless one parents agrees to less time.

Wow $200 a month is next to nothing. But if he's still working on his PhD, I assume his income is pretty low yet. I pay for one child and its closer to a thousand a month. But its based on my income, and my ex-wife's income, plus the time our daughter is with each of us. Just happened my ex went through a period of reduced income in the year previous to our divorce. I could get it recalculated, but its only a couple more years and I'd rather not create the hard feelings asking for that would surely bring up. As she finally just stopped playing her little games recently.

[X Factor 1,112]

Prenups didn't even cross our minds.

[sjr09 155]

Maybe I don't understand the details, but I thought the only way the USC could be relieved of the I-864 obligation was:

1) Death of affiant (USC)

2) Death of beneficiary (foreign fiance)

3) Beneficiary becoming USC

4) Beneficiary leaving the US

5) Beneficiary accumulates 40 quarterly credits within SS, essentially 10yrs of full-time work (either fiance or USC spouse)

6) Becomes subject to removal but applies for and obtains in removal proceedings a new grant of adjustment of status based on a new AOS if one is required.

As far as I understand it, divorce does not discharge the obligation. Correct Even if fiance receives alimony/child support, if fiance receives any federal needs-based public assistance, US Government can sue the affiant for reimbursement.

The proper term is "means-tested public benefits" and not to confused with means-tested benefits such as emergency Medicaid ext. Under federal, state or local programs. Each state will determine which if any of it's public benefits are means-tested.

I always thought the I-864 was iron clad.

Am I missing anything?

[LSnBigBear 61]

Let's stereotype American women. There are many Filipina women who are scammers, cheats, gold-diggers and liars.That's not my opinion, but something factual.

I would say since the internet boom of on line dating that you're correct. I was told while living in the Phiippines to learn the language but act like you do not know it. You hear a lot of chika chika as they say about what women really think of their husbands both foreign and domestic. What many want is a better life there. BUT isnt that what anyone wants in terms of relatonships. My fiancee is going to be my partner and my friend. Don't we all want this. I believe so. But saying this, in this day and age people change, circumstances change. I say a prenup is up to the person that holds the cards. I am certain since OP has not started this process yet that in the event he wants a Filipina wife that he can stop this and re-group. It is up to him. She has options I am sure as he has options. Life is about freedom. Do or don't.

[LSnBigBear 61]

One thing to consider as someone else touched on is that she has a child. So the OP has more to lose in the event the marriage does not work out. He is liable for child support as well. And don't we know this is not cheap. With his wage alone he will be paying between 300-400 usd monthly just in child support. And this depends on the state. I say if she is fighting it then just tell her maybe you should stop this now. My guess is she will come around then. If not then she has another stallion in the stable awaiting. Could be a good test since you sound un-sure. And for those that want to critisize. I have been taken advantage of so I have a harden heart for these games. If it smells like a rat it most likely is a rat. Good luck to you.

[erynaught 43]

Thanks for the clarification.

Interesting scenario:

1) foreign national comes to us under K1

2) foreign national never marries USC sponsor

3) foreign national marries another USC non-sponsor

4) I-864 filed by USC sponsor; USC non-sponsor never files I-864

5) foreign national divorces USC non-sponsor after 15 years of marriage

6) USC non-sponsor worked full-time all 15 years at above poverty threshold

7) foreign national never attains USC or AOS

Would USC sponsor be off the hook regarding the I-864 due to foreign national having established 40 SS credits through USC non-sponsor spouse?

[MangoAve 25]

Interesting how there was only one person who replied who was kinda close to an answer what the OP was looking for. You should be able to talk to her about anything, including a prenup. You know your fiance better than the people here so how you will go about it is your choice. Just like some said to explain how a prenup can help her if something ever happened to you and the state came looking to her for estate taxes. If it is something you need to have completed, then you must talk with her about it 'cuz then its your choice to proceed if she won't ever go through with it.

I'm surprised how many of the Pnoy didn't get their facts right. In these statement I say many or most, not all, so don't be coming after me if you get offended. Many Pnoy don't have the money to get married so they just become live-in spouses. Many Pnoy don't own things to even bother dividing in a divorce. Even when Pnoy do get married to Pnoy, divorce takes upwards of 10 years and is more like an annulment anyway in the Philippines. Is that maybe why you seem to think no one in Phils uses prenup?

To whomever said about american women and foreign women.. American women can just as easily try to screw the man over if the divorce is caused by cheating or there is any bitterness. Its already been said foreign women can be looking for any way out of their country. Blah blah blah. Trust is not the only thing swaying doing or not doing prenup. You can trust them when you marry them but people can drift apart by either of them not doing what it takes to keep the relationship strong. Both of beneficiary and petitioner give up a lot to go through this process and both have to see that. Can any of you say that you didn't go through a past relationship where you though you know who you were with but you were wrong?

Edited February 4, 2013 by MangoAve

[Caryh 5,206]

Thanks for the clarification.

Interesting scenario:

1) foreign national comes to us under K1

2) foreign national never marries USC sponsor

3) foreign national marries another USC non-sponsor

4) I-864 filed by USC sponsor; USC non-sponsor never files I-864

5) foreign national divorces USC non-sponsor after 15 years of marriage

6) USC non-sponsor worked full-time all 15 years at above poverty threshold

7) foreign national never attains USC or AOS

Would USC sponsor be off the hook regarding the I-864 due to foreign national having established 40 SS credits through USC non-sponsor spouse?

A foreign national coming on a K1 and never marrying the sponsor, cannot adjust status and get a green card. There is no I-864, and there can be no adjustment of status without marrying the sponsor. The K1 visa is conditional on marrying the sponsor within 90 days. Failure to do so, kills the process.

[Caryh 5,206]

I'm surprised how many of the Pnoy didn't get their facts right. In these statement I say many or most, not all, so don't be coming after me if you get offended. Many Pnoy don't have the money to get married so they just become live-in spouses. Many Pnoy don't own things to even bother dividing in a divorce. Even when Pnoy do get married to Pnoy, divorce takes upwards of 10 years and is more like an annulment anyway in the Philippines. Is that maybe why you seem to think no one in Phils uses prenup?

Its not so expensive to get married in the Philippines if they choose to. Some choose not to, and many more can't legally marry because they can't afford the annulment of their first marriage, or still spend part of the time with their first wife. One of my good friends there has that situation. Spends half the time with his wife and their kids, and the other half with his mistress and their kids. Its kind of funny watching the wife and mistress try to maneuver the situation so he spends more time with her. Other men I know brag about what number wife they're on, and all the kids they left behind.

[erynaught 43]

Okay, so i understand the i-864 doesn't get filed with the k1.

So, neither USC would have an obligation here with the government.

But foreign national has a problem.

Correct?