Marriage in Russia

[Alfia & John 10]

What are the advantages and disadvantages of marriage in Russia. I am familiar with the 31 day wait and the application at ZAGS. I know it will mean two trips to Russia to get the job done or a longer stay waiting for ZAGS. She as so many friends and family in Russia, I think it will just be better for her to do the wedding in Russia where her friends and family can attend. I know this will entail a K3, not K1 visa.

Have I missed anything?

As a guy, the marriage ceremony is important but not to the extent that it is for the bride. I want this to be special for her and her family (both immediate and extended).

[Amy_and_Victor 159]

[Victor from Russia] One note - as I remember, it will be CR-1 visa, not K-3. As far as about wedding, you need to figure requirements of ZAGS you're planning wedding in, because for marriages with foreigners they may have special reqirements - like certified interpreter attending ceremony (if you don't speak Russian fluently), or certified document with apostile from the USA that you're not married in the US. It's all real examples - when we're with Amy still didn't know where to make wedding, I asked in my local ZAGS in Russia what they would need if somebody is marrying US citizen. They gave me list of extra requirements including two I mentioned above. It seems to be not as easy as marrying foreigner in the US.

[StarGirl 13]

To add to what Amy_and_Victor said, in my city only one out of all ZAGS would register marriage with a foreigner. So that limits location choices as well ((((

[Altair17 9]

5 extra cents: CR1 on average takes several months longer from beginning to the end of procedure, compared to K1. And unless u're living in Russia it would result in time apart after you've been married.

Might be more practical to get a big engagement party in russia, and do all legal things in US

Edited February 2, 2013 by Altair17

[Alfia & John 10]

5 extra cents: CR1 on average takes several months longer from beginning to the end of procedure, compared to K1. And unless u're living in Russia it would result in time apart after you've been married.

Might be more practical to get a big engagement party in russia, and do all legal things in US

I have been reading up on the procedures and trials of this all day. Much will depend on her desires and whether she wants to remain in Russia (me move to Russia) or her coming here. Yes, I would move to Russia in a heartbeat if that is what is best for us. We have a lot to discuss over the next couple months.

[Turboguy 6]

Might be more practical to get a big engagement party in russia, and do all legal things in US

That is probably a great suggestion but if you do don't use any of the photos as part of your "Proof" of meeting during your K-1 interview. It can give them the impression that you are already married and trying to work the system to save time.

One of the best advantages of going with a K-1 and getting married here are that it gives you an extra 90 days together, it gives her a chance to see what your life and her future life will really be like and gives you more of a chance to see what she will really be like as part of your life. As much as we all want this it is far better if things are going to fall apart to have it during the K-1 than after marriage.

[Amy_and_Victor 159]

Meh, I'm not a big fan of relying on the 90 day period as a "trial period" of some sort. I get what you're saying, though. If it's possible, I'd still advise people to try, if it's possible, to take a longer vacation with their spouse-to-be before dragging them over here to try out living together in person. Victor and I were very fortunate during one of our visits to be able to spend 6 weeks together. It was close enough to living together to understand what day to day life would be like together. I understand it's not possible for everyone. I would just advise that people who can avoid the 90 days being that "trial" do so. People usually have to uproot their lives completely when they come here, and it can be hard to just pack it all back up and go back home to start fresh. Better to know if you can handle marriage and living together before bringing someone over here. Just my 2 cents.

And yes, if you have a big engagement party for her family and friends in Russia and then end up going the K-1 route to move here to do it legally, don't give USCIS those photos as proof, and I'd even hold off on posting them online like on Facebook or anything like that, as USCIS has peeped at people's social networking profiles before. If they see a "wedding" photo, even if it's not a legal wedding, they'll assume you're already married and working the system.

~ Amy

Edited February 9, 2013 by Amy_and_Victor

[Turboguy 6]

Amy, I agree with you that the 90 day period should not be used as a trial period to get to know each other and I am sorry if my previous post came off that way. You should always be sure you want to marry BEFORE doing the K-1. I do think however that having a chance for a woman to see how her future husband lives and what his life is like before taking the vows is a good thing. She may have visions of him living in a mansion when her really lives in a shack. She may find his family is half nuts and opposed to a foreign bride. She could arrive from a major city and find he lives 50 miles from the nearest Walmart. I don't think the 90 day period should be a trial but it is good for her to know what the realities of his life are.

With my wife we spent time together twice in Russia, made trips to Egypt and Thailand and spend nearly the whole summer together in Grenada and Barbados. We spent close to 4 months together before she arrived. I think making one trip for a short time and doing a K-1 is a mistake.

Edited February 10, 2013 by Turboguy

[Amy_and_Victor 159]

Turboguy, it's Victor now writing. I agree with your last post. Not a trial period, but something to look around before marriage if it's any "red flags" or doubts around for anybody in the couple. It's definitely not our case, and for me it was nothing dramatically different from what Amy told me and what I was imagining by reading immigrants forums, but even here, on VJ, I really read some cases when during these 90 days relationship turned different way from how it was before POE. New red flags, changed behavior, wrong expectations... Especially, if couple has some myths and stereotypes in their minds (hm, just like an example I can tell that one of my friends thought that earning $60K or more annually for average young adult in the US wouldn't even take any efforts, and was seriously surprised that so many people in the US can only dream about such income), or when somebody in couple is not fair about some aspects of future life. I've read stories which actually proove that for some couple 90-days period is something they needed. So yeah, it's not something to "try before you buy", but it's something to take a breath and look around before such big step as a marriage if you have any doubts. And I read enough stories when people would make K-1 having serious "red flags" with hope that everything will change, but it doesn't change usually. So CR-1 visa can be used only by people who know each other well and definitely know that they want and can live together as a family, otherwise it can be a big mistake. K-1 is universal for any cases - we chose K-1 just because marriage in Russia would be more complicate for us due to local ZAGSes requirements and some other circumstances, and it would delay us being together for at least 5-6 more months, so for us K-1 was the shortest way (though, it still took almost 1.5 years since we fell in love and before I got off the plane in the US), but we married in a month after I arrived US, as soon as we were done with important basic stuff (like getting SSN, meeting Amy's parents in person, showing me the city, getting debit card for me, getting a car to be able to move around easier, buying some basic things I needed and couldn't fit to my luggage...) and could plan it.

[Alfia & John 10]

Thanks for the input. Turboguy, I have been on the forum long enough to remember you dating period and I remember your trip to the Carib. It has been a long journey for me also. I started this journey in 2006.

My primary reason for thinking marriage in Russia is best is her family and friends. A wedding is for the women, it is certainly important for me but the celebration and the glamour is basically for the bride. I want this to be special for her and for her family.

I understand the extra waiting period, that will suck, no question. I understand the problems with getting married in Russia, waiting period, multiple trips, etc. That is a consideration but any extra trips is just a bit more time together.

I also do not like the impression of a 90 day period to get to know each other but I understand it is a big move and some need the time to adjust and make sure this is the correct decision.

I have looked at the requirements, it is going to be a pain but much of life can be a pain. There is getting the permissions, the application, providing all the documents, etc. I will be in Russia May 1-12. This is a period of national holiday, at least part of the period so government offices may be closed part of the period. One permission takes 10 days from Moscow so that will make the initial application a tight schedule. So many considerations...

[Turboguy 6]

I have to agree totally that the actual wedding is more important to the woman than the man. I know in my case I would have been happy the just go get married at the courthouse with no one there more than needed but many women have a lifelong dream of a fairy tale wedding and when a couple gets married here there can't be much participation from her friends and family.

It is nice to know I wasn't forgotten. Yes, we had some troubles with Administrative Review and wondered if we were ever going to get her visa. At the time I talked to lots of people who spent years, 8 years in one case in A/R. We were actually scouting out a place to live together if we were not able to get the visa but while we were in Grenada we came out of A/R

I do see too many who don't know their fiancée well enough when they do a K-1. I recall one young guy who was posting on VJ when I first arrived and he had done a K-1 with a gal after one visit and felt he could not afford to go back for more visits. Later she seemed to be getting cold feet and wanted to cancel the visa so he did make a second trip and things were back on. She arrived and about a month later he came home from work unexpectedly and found she had been doing naked web cam with about 20 different guys.

My wife was actually my second fiancée from Russia. I made enough trips to visit the first to be worried when I did that first K-1 but didn't realize just how wacky that girl was. She came of as the most wonderful woman you could imagine but very moody. She stayed here for 89 days and then went back. After she went back she wrote me and told me she had made the biggest mistake of her life and her keys were covered with tears and wanted me to do another K-1. I started the paperwork and ten days later found she was planning a trip to Germany to spend a couple of weeks with another guy she had been writing. I canceled the K-1. I did get some follow up on her since she stayed friends for a while with my secretary. After she went back she met another guy. They did a K-1. When the appointment was scheduled she decided not to go. Then she did a K-1 with a guy from Texas. She arrived and decided she didn't want to marry him. According to her, he said she had to that he wasn't buying her a ticket home (I am not sure I believe that). She married him, stayed with him 6 weeks and left, divorced him and filed to stay as an abused wife. As far as I know she is still here. Sometimes you think you know someone but really don't. The more time you can spend together the better.

Edited February 10, 2013 by Turboguy

[Alfia & John 10]

Turboguy, I remember well the pain you endured. I am delighted to see that all worked out well in the end, that helps put balm on the memories of the long period and the endless waiting.

[Amy_and_Victor 159]

It's Victor writing.

She came of as the most wonderful woman you could imagine but very moody.

I feel really sorry for you, it's not the situation anybody would want to be in. I personally always had in my minds "beware of moody and bitchy girls", never could stand any of them, because they're so much opposite to my personality.

I have to agree totally that the actual wedding is more important to the woman than the man. I know in my case I would have been happy the just go get married at the courthouse with no one there more than needed but many women have a lifelong dream of a fairy tale wedding and when a couple gets married here there can't be much participation from her friends and family.

If you would know how happy I was that Amy wasn't a fan of fancy wedding ceremony aka "turn this town upside down".

I don't know a lot about ceremonies in the US, but in Russia traditional wedding is usually has some stages. I'll describe briefly how it was in region I'm from, not sure about other regions, of course, it can be as different, as Florida wedding can be different from Alaska wedding.

1. In the morning it's some not official, but traditional games/ceremonies at the bride's home. Something like challenges for the groom, "ransom for the bride" (not sure it's correct name, but I have no idea how to translate better this joking tradition played between groom and bride's family), etc. If they starting early in the morning, it also makes neighboors in the apartment building really "happy" to be awakened by car horns and participants yelling.

2. Then groom, bride, and their closest relatives and friends (usually not a lot, about 20-40 people overall) going to the ZAGS or wedding palace. Often couple renting bus or cars for guests and limo for themselves, if they can't afford to rent transportation for everybody, they may ask guest who can to use their own cars. At the ZAGS they make quick official wedding ceremony, and technically they're married now. Often it's followed by more random actions like letting go doves or butterflyes, breaking shampagne glasses "for good luck", etc.

3. Then everybody, who was invited to the ceremony and newlyweds, driving in the cortege together to the pretty or famous places in the city or around city to have fun and make tons of photos for the wedding album. It takes several hours, until the evening.

4. In the evening this cortege driving to the rented restaurant where supposed to be a big wedding party. In the restaurant it's usually much more people attending party, because if for the first part of the day couple usually inviting only closest people, to the restaurant traditionally you have to invite as much people as you can afford - all relatives, friends, sometimes people even inviting co-workers they like, so now crowd is few times more than it was and easily can grow up to 50-100 people. And then party is going on until everybody is tired and leaving, often for 5-7 hours, with music, dances, tons of food and booze, and most awful from my point of view - "tamada" (toast-master). Usually it's just professional hired toast-master, women in middle age, who is loud and annoying like a big mosquito when you're sleeping , keeps everybody's attention and bugs guests and newlyweds with so dumb games and challenges that you start to understand why it's so much of booze on the table - you wouldn't be able to stand it not being drunk. Like an example - making rows of chairs, pulling ropes between them, and groom (well, now husband) should go through this maze carrying his wife on his hands and trying not to fall down. Or newlyweds in front of guests biting the same bagel and pulling it apart with teeth trying to get bigger piece than other one. Or newlyweds standing 15-20 steps from each other, and walking to each other by little steps, calling each other with each step different cute names, loud enough that all guests will hear and have fun watching it. It's not the worst challenges I've seen. May be I'm too boring for such exciting entertaining program, but I honestly don't get it.

Of course, not every single wedding is like this, but most of them. I attended few weddings of my relatives/friends, and they all were made by this typical draft, difference was only in level of the restaurant and places guests were attending. And people do it, because in Russia it's still much, much less of freedom in minds than here, and common frase "what will people say?!" is still such important that makes many people to do not what they want, but what others expect from them to do. If you don't want to follow the draft and want to make small easy wedding, "what people will say?", and if you don't give a damn about what people will say, your parents and other close people will shame you with "what people will say?". So no matter how much I wasn't a big fan of doing this kind of traditional wedding day, I expected that with high chances I will have to go through this hell and will have to pay back cost of it for many months after, just for my future wife, because I knew how much most of the girls want this kind of traditional wedding, cake-style dress for the cost of used car, party for 100 people I barely even know and other "fun". Well, I was seriously surprised in a good way when Amy told me that she is actually also not a fan of fancy ceremonies with tons of people, especially because it takes so much of everything - time, efforts, money, nervousness... Our wedding was very simple but nice - with just a few closest people from Amy's side (from my side nobody could go to the US), in the secular and pretty chapel, with dinner in the restaurant after with the same few relatives and friends, and then night in the inn in small and crafty town where we had great walking around in the morning. It was really easy and funny wedding, we have a great photos and a lot of memories, and we both really were happy with such simple wedding. Would I trade it to the traditional wedding described above? Hell, NO!

[Alfia & John 10]

Victor;

Thanks for the detailed description. I lived in Russia two years as a wildlife photographer. I photographed one wedding and observed a couple more in Russia. The one wedding I photographed was a very religious ceremony, of course, with ZAGS but also church, dinner party, toasts, etc. It was very beautiful. The other weddings I observed were more like what you describe.

You know, I prefer a quiet celebration wedding with little fanfare but my bride is 46, has been divorced for a long time and I want to do what will bring her happiness. We will discuss it more but this is going to be her decision.

Edited February 10, 2013 by moosescape

[Turboguy 6]

This is probably a stupid question but just to cover all bases.

Have you discussed with her what she would like and what is important to her and the advantages each way.

My wife had never been married and I assumed she might want a nice wedding but in reality she would have been happier just going to the courthouse. We had a small ceremony with 35-40 people. I think we both would have liked less but some of the friends and family wanted a wedding to go to.

Thanks for the nice comments and good wishes. Yes, I got lucky and ended up with a terrific wife. Just a little over 5 years since we married.